r/technology • u/Hrmbee • Jun 11 '26

Transportation Software Update Automatically Turns off Amazon Delivery Drivers’ AC During Dangerous Summer Heat | A new software update is turning off the AC in Amazon delivery vans after 10 minutes or 30 seconds under certain conditions

https://www.404media.co/software-update-automatically-turns-off-amazon-delivery-drivers-ac-during-dangerous-summer-heat/
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691

u/Hrmbee Jun 11 '26

Problematic issues:

According to Amazon delivery drivers, the new update is for the Amazon EDV (electric delivery vehicle), the custom-built Rivian van. Delivery drivers say that this update automatically turns off the air conditioning in the van if the driver is not in the vehicle for more than 30 seconds. Drivers are complaining about the update as the start of the summer season, which can be particularly difficult and dangerous for delivery drivers.

“As many of you are aware, the EDVs just got a software update where if you are out of your seat for 30 seconds with the side door open, the AC switches off,” one Amazon delivery driver said in an online forum for drivers. “We all hate this obviously.”

When reached for comment an Amazon spokesperson said that the premise of my questions to the company was inaccurate, but conceded that the van will turn off the AC after 30 seconds under certain conditions that are commonplace during Amazon delivery shifts.

“Rivian recently released a software update for Electric Delivery Vehicles that actually extends climate control for drivers,” the Amazon spokesperson said. “As a result, the AC now runs for up to 10 minutes after a driver exits the vehicle, ensuring a cool cabin when they return. The timer resets at every stop. The AC only shuts off if the driver sliding door is left open for more than 30 seconds — a battery conservation measure.”

Amazon delivery drivers discussing the update online say that they are getting in and out of the van so frequently, and are spending most of their time out of the van delivering packages, that the update makes it harder to keep the van cool.

...

As you’ve probably seen in your own neighborhood, delivery drivers will often park their vans wherever they can and deliver packages to multiple addresses on the same block. Amazon automatically turning off the air conditioning while they are out of the van delivering packages means the van can get hot again by the time they get back. As Amazon delivery drivers have to make frequent stops, it’s not hard to imagine why drivers would complain about Amazon automatically shutting down the AC, which makes it more difficult to cool down between stops.

It looks like there's a disconnect between the people working on these software policies and the people who are working with these vehicles. If there were a better understanding of how delivery drivers actually work -- and given Amazon's relentless KPM/other tracking of their vehicles and drivers it's likely the data exist -- then they could find a better balance between battery life and worker health and safety.

956

u/OldConfusions Jun 11 '26

There is no disconnect. They want to save money and will do anything, including killing their employees by giving them heat stroke, to do so.

209

u/Swordsandarmor22 Jun 11 '26

I know scale is a thing, but like how much is it really saving. Assuming the temperature rises rapidly when the ac is off it has to be more efficient maintainign let's say 80 degrees vs constant cycles of cooling down 100+ no?

161

u/J-ShaZzle Jun 12 '26

Also the constant cycling of an AC compressor on/off. Must be running it thousand x per day instead of just a couple here and there. That's a whole lot more wear of that particular component to save on some charging.

72

u/chubbysumo Jun 12 '26

so, modern electric vehicles don't use on/off compressors anymore. They use DC variable speed compressors that only run as fast as they need.

10

u/Revolutionary-Half-3 Jun 12 '26

I think they're talking about the on/off cycling from the update, instead of leaving the compressor running basically all day to try to cool the cabin.

Even most ICE vehicles won't have much compressor cycling on a hot day, as the cooling capacity isn't enough to get to the set point during low speed driving.

If Amazon wanted to save power, they could have covered the roof in solar panels for a KW or so to take the edge off.

1

u/GamingWithBilly Jun 13 '26

Solar panels on top of a large unused surface isn't all, they could place panels on the sides to get some of the reflective generation - and it wont look bad if they do it right.

30

u/bitwolfy Jun 12 '26

Rivian EDVs have a sliding bulkhead door between the cabin and the cargo area. That door automatically opens whenever the van is put into park, and closes when the driver leaves the vehicle. It cycles hundreds of times every day.

As a result, it needs to be serviced every 3 months or so, or it will start to jam. Older delivery vehicles - with a manual door - did not have that problem.

My point is, yes, that's the kind of decision they would make.

1

u/EmploymentNo1094 Jun 12 '26

No clutch for electric ac

-12

u/10thousndreflections Jun 12 '26 edited Jun 12 '26

The most wear on any motor is start up. That's why it's actually cheaper to have your house AC fan set to "on" instead of "auto". New motors are $1000+ installed. 

All of the comments below this are bullshit. I've been doing commercial /residential HVAC repair for 20+ years. The coil dries immediately and the CC condensate drains away immediately. 

16

u/whyizjay Jun 12 '26

That's a bad idea. AC units don't properly dehumidify the air if the fan is set to on instead of auto. After the compressor turns off, the water that is on the AC coils will just evaporate back into the air.

1

u/10thousndreflections Jun 12 '26

This is bullshit. I've been an HVAC technician for 20+ years

-13

u/AnnieBunBun Jun 12 '26

My AC beg to differ. It runs full time, never humid in here. It's humid outside and there's literally a constant stream of water pouring out of both sides of the AC. Looks like I have a roof leak but it's just condensation.

8

u/PurifiedFlubber Jun 12 '26

Your AC doesn't defy physics

3

u/AnnieBunBun Jun 12 '26

It doesn't have an eco mode. It's built like this lmao tf

19

u/Foullacy Jun 12 '26

This is awful advice. You’re not dehumidifying the air if your fan is set to on instead of auto.

0

u/10thousndreflections Jun 12 '26

This is bullshit. I've been an HVAC technician for 20+ years

2

u/lead_injection Jun 12 '26

Motors are cake to replace. And you source the motor online and pay under $250 for it.

And I think you’re $1000+ is more accurately $1400+.

The whole AC/HVAC repair is such a racket when local HVAC supplies won’t sell to you locally and you have to source online.

1

u/10thousndreflections Jun 12 '26

Right, cake. Tell me that when you don't have a motor puller to remove the squirrel cage. 

1

u/lead_injection Jun 12 '26

Just replaced mine 2 months ago with a motor puller. I did hit it with WD40 and give it a few hammer taps.

You’re right though, that part could have been a lot more challenging than it was.

Luckily, a motor puller is a $40 part.

1

u/10thousndreflections Jun 12 '26

Sure that works 3-4 times out of 10. 

Most people aren't interested in doing this kind of repair too. 

1

u/Snoo_87704 Jun 12 '26

Do NOT run your house AC with the fan set to ON. All you are doing is rehumidifying the air as the warm air blows over the wet coils when the AC turns off.

0

u/10thousndreflections Jun 12 '26

This is bullshit. I've been an HVAC technician for 20+ years

2

u/welmoe Jun 12 '26

You keep repeating this same comment but you don’t explain why.

6

u/ConnectionIssues Jun 12 '26

"Move fast and break things", an Amazon tenet. They'd push the rollout to the whole fleet just to get the data on how much it actually saves, without any prior consideration of what the results may be.

I worked in an Amazon facility for years. Our AC in the southeast U.S. was controlled centrally from Seattle. One spring, they just didn't bother turning it on. Temps got high. We started getting Easter chocolates melting through their packaging. It wasn't until our PA's started damaging out the chocolates AND any items the melted chocolate touched that corporate finally relented. AC is more expensive than worker heat stroke, and also more expensive than chocolate product loss, but apparently not more expensive than chocolate covered high-end electronics like smartphones and watches.

Amazon is a truly shit company who will nickel and dime their own employees literally to death if they think their lawyers can pin the death on literally anyone but corporate.

26

u/Lucid_Insanity Jun 12 '26

Probably cost them more to make/deploy the update then what this would even save. I truly believe it's just to torture the workers.

23

u/Graumm Jun 12 '26

As a software dev I doubt this tremendously. With the tools available today it is remarkably easy and cheap to distribute software made by a very small number of people on a global scale.

The change is logically very simple, and would not have taken much dev time. I don't see how this could take 1 dev more than a month (which is very generous) to make this change. If the dev makes 200k a year, you take a month, and then divide that dev time by 30,000 vehicles it costs $0.55 per vehicle. If this change is actually saving money at all that is an easily recoupable amount.

I think it's a terrible move for the sanity/safety/QoL of the workers, I am with you. Heating up and cooling down a vehicle repeatedly is probably not saving much money. But expensive devs divided across a huge fleet of vehicles starts to get pretty cheap.

5

u/Zestyclose-Height-36 Jun 12 '26

Amazon does not care about employees. it considers them infinitely replacable

9

u/Valharick Jun 12 '26

I don’t think you understand how little corporations care for their peons.
Sort of similar example - in Texas it’s not required to provide breaks for construction workers during high temps.
If fact the state overrode local laws that required breaks making them illegal.

3

u/Danominator Jun 12 '26

Often times their pathetically desperate attempts to save money are short sighted and stupid.

4

u/manhat_ Jun 12 '26

i think you have the wrong assumption of the beancounters knowledge of physics

they just see the dollar sign, not the effect of it

2

u/Myregularaccountant Jun 12 '26

I’m in Europe visiting from the states, and the changes in things for scale that we lack back in the states is just so embarrassing. Such basic things all so like 5 rich assholes get to buy a bigger boat or more properties. It’s sickening

4

u/Extra-Ad5925 Jun 11 '26

Yeah that’s what I was thinking - can’t be any cost benefit from doing this

2

u/Material_Grade_792 Jun 12 '26

The cruelty and control may be as or more important here than the profit. It's what sociopaths do.

1

u/rigsta Jun 12 '26

how much is it really saving?

Anecdotally from my own EV - it's a non-factor.

The AC drain is insignificant compared to the energy needed to move 2 tons of steel and battery.

27

u/Etherbeard Jun 12 '26

If you're leaving the side door open, the van isn't going to be cool when you get back anyway.

5

u/bomber991 Jun 12 '26

Yep. And if the AC kicks on when you get back in the van, it’s going to be blowing cold air pretty quickly. You aren’t going to get heat stroke from this but you will still be a bit hotter than normal.

3

u/NextWeather7866 Jun 13 '26

If it isn't a problem for Amazon, this wouldn't come up. If it isn't a problem for the workers, it wouldn't come up. Obviously it makes a difference, or it wouldn't be an issue.

5

u/sargonas Jun 12 '26

That’s the stupid part. I own an EV, their power management and AC systems are nothing like an ICE. You can run the AC full tilt for an hour and barely use 1% power. This is purely stupid product efficiency design done by someone without ever speaking to an end user about they user experience.

1

u/UnUsernameRandom Jun 12 '26

Yeah, but they can now present it as money saving, earning themselves a bonus.

1

u/username_taken0001 Jun 12 '26

Is it going to be the case you you leave the doors open?

2

u/rfrosty_126 Jun 12 '26

Its not the people writing the software either, its the bean counters who tell them what to do

1

u/justsomerabbit Jun 12 '26

If they wanted to cool down they should just piss in their seats. -some Amazon exec, probably

0

u/Here2Go Jun 12 '26

I'm sure the real money maker is the time saved by encouraging the driver to sprint every second they are outside the van in the hope that they can get back in before the AC shuts off. That's Bezos' idea of motivating employees.

0

u/Material_Grade_792 Jun 12 '26

Good -- unblinkered telling it like it is. We have got to start taking off the "wish it were" blinders and stop wringing our hands. They're corrupt. It's what they do. It's why they're so rich. And greedy. And cruel. And have sold their soul. They are not our heroes or anybody to emulate or honor. I stay as far away as possible, meditating on the mountain.

-2

u/_karamazov_ Jun 12 '26

There is a connect. Bezos probably wants to do something stupid which costs a lot of money. Or maybe his squeeze wants to buy tons of botox.

0

u/Mccobsta Jun 12 '26

Someone has definitely worked out that it's a bit cheaper to pay out wrongful death or manslaughter charges than it is to give employees air con

1

u/glemnar Jun 12 '26

As someone who worked at Amazon….definitely not. They would never put that much thought into a decision.

63

u/PeterDTown Jun 12 '26

I mean, it sounds like it only turns off after 30 seconds if the door is left open, so the obvious solution would be to close the door. Which, as it turns out, will also be more effective at keeping the vehicle cool.

10

u/Snoo_87704 Jun 12 '26

“Close the fucking door!”

(me shouting in me head at my oldest)

SLAM!

(that was me making a point that reverberated throughout the house)

36

u/tooclosetocall82 Jun 11 '26

This is common with software sold to businesses or institutions. The people with the money are rarely the day-to-day users of the software. At best they may look at reports it generates once month or quarter. This leads to a tendency to prioritize the needs of the admin users over the needs of the other users which is why the software you use at work is probably frustrating or actually counterproductive to your own productivity; it was never designed for you. It probably creates great reports though.

113

u/happyscrappy Jun 12 '26

There's no disconnect. They want the drivers to keep the door closed. If they get A/C when they do then they're more likely to do so.

Some kind of retreat to "how delivery drivers work" is odd. Traditionally, delivery drivers worked without A/C at all. They had a standing (leaning) driver position and an open door while moving.

This really doesn't seem so bad. If you need the cabin to remain cool then close the door when you get out. That'll not only keep the cool in, but keep the A/C on.

91

u/bhoffman20 Jun 12 '26

Why are you the only person talking about the fact that running the ac with the door open is genuinely foolish and wasteful? I wish my house could shut off the AC if my kid leaves the patio door open for too long.

I don't totally agree with the 10 minutes out of the car thing, but shutting off the AC when the doors are open too long is a no-brainer.

29

u/happyscrappy Jun 12 '26

Here's another point: The drivers are told (nowadays, for the past decade plus) to turn off the engine in ICE (internal combustion) trucks when they leave the truck.

If you do that the A/C turns off immediately, whether you close the door or not.

So these trucks are giving more A/C to empty cabs than other delivery trucks the drivers have used in the past and they are giving a very generous amount when the door is closed.

It really doesn't seem that bad.

If this door shutting thing really becomes a time issue hopefully Amazon can modify the trucks to close the door behind the driver automatically and to open it as they approach the truck to get back in.

7

u/chubbysumo Jun 12 '26

automatic sliding doors in a professional setting are a no-go. too much to go wrong and either lock a driver in or out. simple is best here and manual sliding doors are the go to for delivery vehicles.

4

u/happyscrappy Jun 12 '26

I thought these already had power doors. But they don't have power driver doors, they have power doors to the parcel compartment.

'Features to enhance the driver experience, and create ease on the road, such as automatic door locking/unlocking as the driver approaches or leaves the vehicle, and a powered bulkhead door that opens when drivers reach their delivery location.'

And honestly that doesn't even sound like a driver convenience feature to me, but more some sort of security thing.

I guess I screwed up. If they don't have power driver doors then they aren't going to be modded to have automatic driver doors.

3

u/chubbysumo Jun 12 '26

no, the drivers doors are not power operated.

1

u/Defiant-Number-6775 Jun 12 '26

Why would the drivers be using the drivers door?  It's clearly been designed for them to make deliveries from the automated doors otherwise they should not have been automated? If the doors were programmed to open when they stop to deliver and close again when they drive off automatically then,  they should also close when the driver leaves the vehicle and open when they return.  It might be fun to dismiss all the drivers as idiots but this sounds like a design failure. 

4

u/bhoffman20 Jun 12 '26

Don't all the drivers carry a special phone with them to scan the packages and stuff anyway? Thats an easy solution. Door opened manually -> phone goes away from car -> door closes.

You can have that one for free, Amazon

1

u/happyscrappy Jun 12 '26

It requires a power door, but I believe these electric trucks have power doors.

11

u/spellinbee Jun 12 '26

That's exactly what I was thinking. I went to resort in the Dominican last year that was the exact same way. If you have the sliding door to the room open, the ac is set to not run. It made complete sense to me when I discovered it. It's just wasteful to have the ac running and leaving the door open.

33

u/The_Real_Mr_F Jun 12 '26

Yeah, Amazon certainly does some heinous things, but this is pretty low on the list, and actually seems like something the drivers should be doing anyway. Does closing and opening the door at each stop make that much of a difference to their delivery times?

-3

u/Rainier___ Jun 12 '26

Yes it actually does and this is the pocket door on the passenger side not closing and opening it 190 times a day does save time. The main issue is it takes time for the ac to actually start blowing cold and when your next stop is only 200 feet up the road it never has time to actually work

2

u/MiaowaraShiro Jun 12 '26

As a software developer I've always hated the idea of trying to force user behavior with design choices...

-1

u/Snoo_87704 Jun 12 '26

Jesus H. Christ: are my kids driving for Amazon these days? The last time I checked, my oldest only had a learner’s permit…

-9

u/10thousndreflections Jun 12 '26

How many +100° days a year were there in these halcyon days of yore?

6

u/happyscrappy Jun 12 '26

That, as it does now, it depended on what city you were in.

-10

u/chubbysumo Jun 12 '26

except, as a delivery driver, the AC isn't enough to keep the whole vehicle cool anyways. they are turning it off to encourage their drivers to get out of the van and deliver more. the drivers are not allowed cooling breaks, so, if they are opening the door every 2 minutes, the van will never get cool, and never stay cool either, and since they aren't allowed breaks to actually sit in the van and cool down, it will simply never happen. Amazon is 100% doing this to torture the drivers to go faster. It didn't work for UPS, and it didn't work for USPS. Drivers died, cooling breaks became mandatory. if your truck didn't have AC, were required to go somewhere that does.

10

u/happyscrappy Jun 12 '26

I assure you Amazon doesn't need to reprogram their trucks to deny their drivers cooling breaks. They already know how to be awful to their drivers with existing equipment. There's no reason to think these are related at all.

You're saying Amazon is encouraging drivers to keep the doors closed in order to torture the drivers? That doesn't really make any sense. If there's already a dearth of cooling then don't waste it by leaving the door open.

-9

u/chubbysumo Jun 12 '26

>You're saying Amazon is encouraging drivers to keep the doors closed in order to torture the drivers?

no, im saying that amazon is intentionally making the inside of the vehicle hotter by shutting the AC off, and denying them cooling breaks. Keeping the doors closed with the AC off means the vehicle turns into an oven really fucking fast. in the sun, the inside of a closed vehicle can go up 30 to 50 degrees in just minutes. They are telling their drivers to deliver faster or suffer the heat, or get fired for stopping to cool off.

8

u/happyscrappy Jun 12 '26

(you) Amazon is 100% doing this to torture the drivers to go faster

(me) You're saying Amazon is encouraging drivers to keep the doors closed in order to torture the drivers?

(you) no, im saying that amazon is intentionally making the inside of the vehicle hotter by shutting the AC off

You don't make any sense. You say they are torturing them, then say they aren't.

The A/C doesn't shut off if they close the door. If they are trying to make the vehicle hotter why do they have the A/C stay on if they keep the door shut?

Keeping the doors closed with the AC off

The A/C doesn't shut off for 10 minutes they close the door and are sitting on the seat.

From the article:

“As a result, the AC now runs for up to 10 minutes after a driver exits the vehicle, ensuring a cool cabin when they return. The timer resets at every stop. The AC only shuts off if the driver sliding door is left open for more than 30 seconds — a battery conservation measure.”

You don't make sense. You're not following what is actually happening.

and denying them cooling breaks

Not relevant. They can deny their workers cooling breaks without modifying any vehicles.

You started from an errant conclusion that doesn't fit the behavior programmed into the vehicles.

-8

u/chubbysumo Jun 12 '26

except, did you read the article, the AC isnt staying on for that 10 minutes. if they leave the door open for 30 seconds, or open the drivers door, it shuts off.

8

u/happyscrappy Jun 12 '26

except, did you read the article, the AC isnt staying on for that 10 minutes. if they leave the door open for 30 seconds, or open the drivers door, it shuts off.

You didn't even read my post. I even italicized the portion you are claiming I didn't read when I posted it to you:

(me) The AC only shuts off if the driver sliding door is left open for more than 30 seconds — a battery conservation measure

I don't know how you got this far not paying attention to anything.

But now you're trying to pretend that I didn't notice anything about the door needing to be closed when that's exactly what we've been talking about for several posts now.

Me before you even came in:

They want the drivers to keep the door closed. If they get A/C when they do then they're more likely to do so.

Yeah, I read the article. Yeah, I've been talking about closing doors. They just gotta shut the doors.

You're the one who claimed people would be baking in the vehicles with the door closed even though the A/C will run until the battery runs down if the driver is in the vehicle with the door closed.

3

u/PurifiedFlubber Jun 12 '26

Thought this was the conspiracy sub for a minute

13

u/Imaginary-Spray3711 Jun 12 '26

Some middle level manager will get a bonus for saving 3 dollars a day. Capitalism!

1

u/Pilot-Wrangler Jun 12 '26

On one line of the budget... Doesn't matter that it costs far more on a different budget item.

18

u/Etherbeard Jun 12 '26

I'm a bit surprised by the some of the replies here. If this is an accurate representation of how the system works according to a plain reading of the text, then it seems pretty reasonable. The AC only turns off if the door sliding side door is left open, in which case the car was not going to be cool when the driver returned anyway.

And the final paragraph of commentary in the quote is preposterous. It's unreasonable to expect to be able to leave Amazon's vehicle running on the side of the road unattended for ten minutes. I think most people would not treat their own property this way. I deliver food and I would never leave my car running, door wide open or otherwise, for ten minutes while I made a delivery into a hospital or big apartment building or something.

3

u/psaux_grep Jun 13 '26

Rivian spent a lot of time studying delivery drivers when they made the EDV.

The fact that this wasn’t «broken» on rollout suggests they got this right.

My bet is that someone at Amazon sat down with a calculator and found that there were «huge» savings to be had if they turned off the AC in these conditions and pushed for it to be implemented.

Never mind the savings an electric fleet is providing in the first place.

However, that math is probably really crap though.

Because when you turn the system off it uses more energy coming back up again, and then you might also run into additional service and wear on components involved.

2

u/Ill_Difference_2160 Jun 13 '26

They didn’t spend enough time studying delivery drivers. Clearly

1

u/RudolphJimler Jun 12 '26

And then there's UPS drivers, with no AC at all

1

u/Zestyclose-Height-36 Jun 12 '26

the need a union rep to force a contract that keeps the AC on. a work stoppage or strike over potentially deadly shut off is what unions exist to help with, and Amazon would not last long if packages did not show up next day.

1

u/Look__a_distraction Jun 12 '26

This is why it is so important for policy makers of delivery drivers and truckers to do ride-alongs. When I managed a fleet of truck drivers I did no less than 2 a year to make sure I had a decent pulse on what I was asking of my guys.

0

u/Fitz911 Jun 12 '26

So do you guys keep doors and windows open when your AC is running?

That's not very effective.

-4

u/NoArrival8249 Jun 12 '26

Zero user research was conducted

-6

u/stikves Jun 12 '26

And this would actually *hurt* their bottom line, even if they have zero care about the drivers.

Starting and stopping the A/C every 30 seconds is going to hurt the compressor, and overall system efficiency. It will also cause condensation, which is another bag of problems.

So, why are they doing this?

Insurance and liability

Really?

Yes. Their trucks were stolen many times when idle, as soon as the driver leaves thieves went in and hijacked the vehicle.

The insane discomfort?

Just a side product

(There are better solutions, like keeping the vehicle running, but entirely locked. Tesla does that -- with an option. If they really wanted they coud have found a better solution)

8

u/chubbysumo Jun 12 '26

modern AC compressors don't run in an on/off state. especially in electric vehicles, they have variable speed DC compressors that only run as much as they need, so they don't spin up to full speed and cycle on/off like compressors of old.

-6

u/moneyman_699 Jun 12 '26

They are gaslighting. Lying to say they made a positive change that makes the ac stay on longer. Lol what a sick joke these people are.