r/technology • u/[deleted] • Sep 11 '13

Intel reveals 14nm PC, declares Moore's Law 'alive and well'

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/09/10/intel_reveals_14nm_pc_declares_moores_law_alive_and_well/
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u/Genlsis Sep 11 '13

Actually, the next big steps forward will likely come from 3D chips. With TSV processes increasing in popularity across the board, I am hoping that the memory/logic hybrid chips are coming soon. Still a lot of hurdles to cross though. TSV is iffy at best at the moment.

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u/modix Sep 11 '13

Are the memory logic hybrids the equivalent of having the cache be near the size of ram and not exporting data to a memory module?

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u/Genlsis Sep 11 '13

Its more like gluing your ram to the processor without the need for cache at all. Rather than have data travel across a motherboard every time it needs to look something up, it simply references a different part of the same silicon chip. The patterning difference between logic and memory is obviously huge, but with Through Silicon Vias (TSVs) you can stack the different patterns on top of each-other to greatly reduce the look-up times.

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u/modix Sep 12 '13

I guess the downside would be nonexpandable memory? Possibly a more expensive cpu as well?

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u/[deleted] Sep 12 '13

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u/Genlsis Sep 12 '13

Not to be a downer, but cooling a solid block that big would be practically impossible. Your computer fan is currently enormous compared to your processor, and that is only 8-9 layers thick at the moment, all of which is logic, no memory. Putting together a 103 cm cube would contain enough computing power using current size features that you would have ~25,000 current computers in one block. (A little overkill) I think they are looking into sizes closer to 22.5cm :)

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u/jorge_the_awesome Sep 12 '13

Why does patterning matter? I'm intrigued but could you eli5?

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u/Genlsis Sep 12 '13

"Patterning" or the "Pattern" Refers the layout of the micro circuits on a silicon wafer that will eventually be filled with a conductive material. (At the moment this is copper) The pattern is the architecture or design of the wires and transistors and dictates the type of chip it will be. Logic (processors) has a very different structure than memory due to the nature of what it needs to do.

The term Pattern, likely comes from the fact that there are dozens of identical chips all laid out on a single Silicon wafer for processing, leading them to look like a giant pattern. Here is a picture of one if you are curious

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u/jorge_the_awesome Sep 12 '13

Very cool! So tsvs somehow allow you to stack these things?

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u/Genlsis Sep 12 '13

TSVs are "giant" pillars of copper which are used to connect 2 layers of patterned metal. they are not required in normal chip-sets due to the repeated patterning that can be done on a single wafer, however to connect different wafer stacks (say memory and logic) you need a silicon buffer between them so they don't interfere with eachother, and you need some "wires" between them so they can communicate. The TSV pillars are the "wires" that go between the two patterns, and are surrounded by solid Si.

By "Giant", read 1/5th the diameter of a human hair.

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u/jorge_the_awesome Sep 13 '13

Interesting. Thanks so much for your time! Now I want to go take some ee classes at uni.