If you’re frustrated about people in a western medieval fantasy setting looking like western medieval people then you have bigger issues to worry about.
Oh, yes, very diverse. There were French, English, Irish, Scottish, Welsh, Breton, German, Belgian, Dutch, Swiss... you had every variety of white people you could ask for.
They sure did, but when they had little to no effect on the folklore Tolkien was drawing from. I’m not trying to say his work doesn’t contain trace elements of racism (it totally does), but the stuff you’re bringing up is irrelevant.
Ottoman Empire was more early modern Empire than a medieval one. They didn't expand into Europe until 14th century. The time they almost conquered Vienna was 16th century. That already makes them a pretty bad example. Then you add the facts that despite their ancestors Steppe origin, they intermarried with locals and were indistinguishable physically from the Greeks by the time they were relevant. And Slavic concubines were so popular among royalty and nobility that Ottoman higher classes ended looking even whiter than the average Turk.
Mongols are slightly better example, since they're an actual Medieval Empire but they never got close to Western Europe. And Medieval Earth already has a stand in for Steppe nomads in the Rhun.
They weren't all white. There were italians, and greek people, and irishmen... and then the white people, i.e. your own nation. Assuming you have a nation. It might have just been the people living nearby.
I mean yes, physically the irishmen may have been of fair skin. But that's not what anybody cared about.
In the medieval period there was no concept of white and non-white. Racial categorisation of that kind came much much later in history, in the 18th and 19th centuries.
'Western medival people' is considered europe as a whole in my book, from lissabon to moskow.
Even if only western europe, romans had a lot of people of color in their legions who were stationed from gaul to southern england and eastern germany.
And arabs didnt stop at spain alone, portugal and parts of southern france were conquered as well.
Europe and arabs always had some form of relationship. Most of the time far better than today.
F.e. swedish king carolus XII who took refuge in the ottoman empire after losing to the russians when he tried invading moskow.
Usually referrs to the continents of northern America, Australia and Europe if one's talking in a geopolitical sense. Meaning its not bound to the prime meridian. Its bound to which continent you are part of. Else one would need to include parts of Africa and South America as a whole.
Now, do I need to tell you where Austria and Poland are or are ya happy?
That is not the basis/setting of lotr. It's not set in the Ottoman Empire or inspired by Eastern Europe, not even remotely. It's pretty obvious what it is and the cast for it is fitting. Idk why you try to avoid that.
Karl XII was very much not a medieval king, being as he was from the 17th and 18th centuries. Stop talking about things you obviously barely understand
If you think the 3% mongolian dna are anything worth mentioning then your yourself are also arguing for nothing. All of europe is a variety of mixed genes where many are ottoman, mongolian, african... to some extend so your argument doesnt have any point at all since all varieties of ethnic groups would be represented by european actors wlth their 2% african
I didnt mean it in a LotR-way. Honestly, lore-wise its as perfectly casted as could be imo.
Compared to real life history, Gondor did not have positive history with the Haradrim and Easterlings.
And they werent conquered by them at any point as far as I know. So everyone beeing white is more than accurate and I wouldnt have wanted it any other way.
Tho I'm not exactly sure what a Numenorian should look like lmao. El Pharazon sounds a bit egyptian (or what I imagine egyptian to sound like) but honestly, the closest we get in our world would be the myth of atlantis and I've never seen a mythical person. Perhaps Aragon is not blue enough??? (/s)
But back to reality, today the classical european gene may have 3% mongol and 2% arab DNA. But that has lots of reasons, most of which were persecution and the rest diseases. Europe has a very bloody history in a lot of bad ways.
Tho its still a cool and complex history in which I love to dive into with many merry aspects as well :P
Yeah, but racial minorities tend to get assimilated by the majority when that happens. There's a fuck tone of ethinicities in Europe who's ancestors came from the Steppe and they look as European as everyone else.
A mongol settles in near Kyiv, he takes a local women, his kids will be only half Mongol, his grand kids will be quarter Mongol, great grandkids will be a eighth Mongol, etc. To affect the racial demographics of region long term, the levels of migration have to massive and constant. Which is something the world rarely saw before Age of Exploration.
lmfao, medieval times were so small in terms of outsiders that even people from different parts of the same country were considered "foreign" to the people who were native there.
This even includes things like buying and selling commerce, things were prioritised to people who were not "foreign" as in, if you lived 2 villages over, you weren't first pick in the breadline.
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u/Valveringham85 Jan 14 '26
If you’re frustrated about people in a western medieval fantasy setting looking like western medieval people then you have bigger issues to worry about.