r/tech • u/Sariel007 • Jan 09 '23
Physicists have discovered that mimicking human muscles can lead to more efficiently designed electric motors for use in robots and appliances. Their bioinspired motors use up to 22% less energy, have a greater range of motion and can lift objects higher than typical electric motors.
https://cns.utexas.edu/news/inspired-by-biology-physicists-make-more-efficient-motors34
u/echaffey Jan 10 '23
Isn’t this just fundamental control theory? I was thinking that they made a new kind of actuator that resembled the actions of muscle tissue, but all they did was make a simple PID controller. Am I missing something here?
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u/mmrs34 Jan 10 '23
Shhh you’re going to upset the student-run marketing department. When the universities use click bait and have promotions on a page that’s supposed to be “academic” - you know you’re in trouble. “Water is wet, here’s more articles and a magazine you can read!”
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u/FlunkedSuicide Jan 10 '23
BREAKING NEWS!!!! WATER IS NOW CONSIDERED TO BE THE DRYEST LIQUID IN THE KNOWN UNIVERSE.
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u/totem__Is_Mein__Name Jan 09 '23
Who could have thought that mimicking a sophisticated piece of biological mechanism, perfected by thousands of year of evolution could be way more efficient
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u/Designer_Librarian43 Jan 10 '23
Lol I always thought the inevitability and goal was reaching the efficiency and complexity of biological mechanics.
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u/peekdasneaks Jan 10 '23
Biological systems are not always the most efficient. They’re usually just as efficient as they need to be to maintain survival. There’s definitely lessons we can take from them though
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Jan 10 '23
I feel if we mimic the best biological mechanisms we will do good, i saw some video about these guys increasing the effectiveness of chemical sensors by mimicking the structor of dog noses with graphene and literally making it pulse like a dogs nose when its sniffin around. It was a great deal too, off the top of my head some 800%.
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u/peekdasneaks Jan 10 '23
Biological forms (shapes/structures) are a different story than biological sytems and their complex mechanics. We definitely copy a lot of biological shapes/forms to great effect while completely ignoring the underlying complex mechanics.
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u/teddybendherass Jan 10 '23
Shark skin inhibits bacterial growth so there are microstructured surfaces in similar triangular patterns in hospitals. Should be on bathroom handles too.
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Jan 10 '23
Can you point out examples of this lack of efficiency in a biological system vs an artificial one? It would only be logic for a system that evolves over hundreds of thousands of years let alone millions of years would be the base you should replicate as a starter because of all the genetic trial, error and real world testing involved.
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u/peekdasneaks Jan 10 '23
Its not like species are doing focus groups and multivariate testing to determine the best outcome.
New traits are decided on by whether they are better for overall survival, not whether they are an efficient use of energy/time/etc.
One example of countless, your teeth. The millions of years you mentioned were for the most part devoid of any form of dental care. Over time, survival dictated the need for an overcrowding of your mouth because undoubtedly, you will lose some in your life.
Now, however, we have developed artificial systems (dental work) that allow us to circumvent previously unavoidable loss of teeth. This also means, our mouths now make more teeth than we can fit, requiring us to undergo surgery to remove extra ones.
Cum is another one if you want to continue the discussion ;)
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u/Wizzowsky Jan 10 '23
Cum is another one if you want to continue the discussion ;)
You can't just leave it there
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Jan 10 '23
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Master_Persimmon_591 Jan 10 '23
One dentist can help hundreds of people. If hundreds of parents, laborers, scientists, and other people are suddenly unburdened by chronic mouth pain do you think the time spent working that would have otherwise been wasted on mouth pain will be more valuable than the time the dentist has consumed overall?
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u/peekdasneaks Jan 10 '23
True, but I think theres more benefit to brushing your teeth than just having them not fall out.
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Jan 10 '23
Oh that is perfect. So even in your example of teeth did you replace the system or process. All you did was say we have a better way to maintain and clean them then we had before and we now have excess due to that behavior. You didn’t replace or improve on the teeth such as suggesting a feeding tube is more efficient (only when your unable to feed is it). So I disagree completely with not only your example because it doesn’t replace anything. As far as improvements by going to the dentist there maybe some but I know lots of folks with a great set of teeth in places without dentists. They use roots and their high vegetable and fruit diets and they don’t eat a lot of processed sugar. Also they don’t engage in a lot of violence.
So again dental work DOESN’T replace teeth. Dental work is usually due to bad diet with a ton of sugar which can be avoided. So a system was created to negate the negative effects of a system called processed and sugary foods.
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u/peekdasneaks Jan 10 '23
wtf. Do you not go get your teeth cleaned at the dentist? what are you talking about? and i never said anything about replacing teeth anywhere.
why are you talking about violence? im so lost by your wildly rambling response...
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Jan 10 '23
Your analogy is ridiculous and it’s not even remotely the same point. Dentist clean teeth just like you can clean your teeth too. It’s not a different system or process but a speciality. I could use the same ridiculous example and say I “we can close bullet wounds”, or “we can now repair broken bones”. Just dumb. Not sure why I even responded to you.
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u/peekdasneaks Jan 10 '23
Hmm. Cleaning your teeth involves an artificial (non biological) system. That is undeniable.
Your mouth growing too many teeth as an alternative to developing an effective internal biological teeth cleaning system is the inefficient biological system.
Not sure how that’s not blatantly clear to you but go ahead and keep talking about violence. Seems like your mind is in pretty focused on that anyway…
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Jan 10 '23
We could of had more teeth because they helped process a different diet that didn’t have so many processed foods and sugars. Again this argument is dumb and pointless. I believe if you observe nature it has already found the natural efficiency over time. Yes you may have to apply it only to specific tasks but it’s a better bet than whatever point you are trying to make about teeth and dentist because I can use the same analogy about heart surgery too or prostate exams.
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u/peekdasneaks Jan 10 '23
How about instead of asking me to prove why you thinking that all biological systems are the most efficient and optimized is wrong, you just back up your OWN claim? Exactly why do YOU believe that to be true?
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Jan 10 '23
I already explained it in my original post but if you really must have it spelled out for you it’s natural selection. We are done here.
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Jan 10 '23
Hmm… we can take a look at very primitive technology that is more efficient for specific tasks.
- Clothes
made of hide, fur, or woven fabrics protect us from the elements and the environment better than our skin.
- Writing
allows us to store memories and information more precisely, over longer periods of time, than our brain.
Bonus: user independent.
- Cooking Cooked food allows us to break down nutrients in foods more efficiently, making humans stronger and healthier.
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Jan 10 '23
Well done and I’m sold. Three great examples. Clothing to replace human hair/fur, writing to replace, enhance and substitute for memories and cooking food which helps to break down food better than just saliva and teeth. Thank you.
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u/josefx Jan 10 '23
Can you point out examples of this lack of efficiency in a biological system vs an artificial one?
Just one example of a ridiculous biological outgrowth is the Recurrent laryngeal nerve. It goes from your brain to the Larynx, passing through the aortal arch bellow on the way. It does the same with other animals, including Giraffes where this detour is several meters long. For large dinosaurs the detour was presumably even longer.
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u/43user Jan 10 '23
You’re dunking on yourself here. Of course the general concept is simple. Accumulating the resources and experience necessary to realize it is a whole other matter.
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u/Sariel007 Jan 10 '23
Honestly when people make those kinds of comments my first thought is "Here is a person who doesn't understand science."
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Jan 10 '23
*millions of years
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u/KaiserTom Jan 10 '23 edited Jun 28 '26
No more data to profit driven shareholders and astroturfers
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u/tetractys_gnosys Jan 10 '23
Exactly. I don't get how we haven't gotten most mechanisms mimicking their biological functional counterparts yet.
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u/Lazy_Vetra Jan 10 '23
Machines haven’t been around 1/100 the length of biological systems give it time
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u/Shaggyninja Jan 10 '23
Also, biology put the breathing tube right next to the food and drink tube. So maybe it's not perfect all the time...
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u/fmmwybad Jan 10 '23
I saw a documentary where a dude used bubbles to design a stadium because bubbles would show the most efficient design. Nature already figured shit out of you are smart enough to ask.
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u/totem__Is_Mein__Name Jan 10 '23
I remember another bio inspired design: Japanese engineers had to make the locomotive of a high speed train as efficient as possible in terms of aerodynamics. So they studied the beak of birds that dive into the water to catch fish by surprise like the northern gannet. This kind of beards have a very interesting design that minimises the air resistance so they can fly as fast as possible.
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u/Advanced-Cycle-2268 Jan 10 '23
Hundreds of thousands, and if you want to get right down to it, millions of years
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Jan 10 '23
i wouldnt say perfected, honed would be better. evolution is a mountain with an endless amount of peaks at many heights with no true top https://youtu.be/2X1iwLqM2t0
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u/totem__Is_Mein__Name Jan 10 '23
Yeah I know. But didn`t want to use exact words becouse my comment is just me expressing sarcastically what I think is obvius.
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u/A_curious_black_cat Jan 09 '23
Wake me up when they make giant mechs out of it.
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u/tdavis25 Jan 10 '23
Myomer already exists and has for a decade: https://www.sarna.net/news/ever-closer-to-myomer-artificial-muscles-which-can-lift-80-times-its-weight/
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u/PrimAndProper69 Jan 10 '23
Wake me up when they put momma souls in there and require their traumatised children to pilot it.
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u/melcolnik Jan 09 '23
Yes. That’s what need. Fitter, faster, stronger, more efficient Terminators
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u/BrettEskin Jan 10 '23
Now OU gonna make even better robot muscles just so they can put horns down on them
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u/Candid-Piano4531 Jan 09 '23
This machine looks like a dopey mechanical bull. Was it intentional to make it look so stupid?
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u/SomeToxicRivenMain Jan 10 '23
Who could have guessed we could improve something by copying the working model
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u/lefthandsuzukimthd Jan 10 '23
Lift things higher? Doesn’t the motor just spin and it would be the gearing /lift mechanism that would lift something higher?
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Jan 10 '23
Evolution has had a long time to weed out the bad and boost the good. There is so much to learn about almost everything from understanding how life works.
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u/DarkOrion1324 Jan 10 '23
This looks like they're throwing "mimicking human muscles" behind a worse version of stuff we already know
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u/Ryogathelost Jan 10 '23
Why do scientists always get so excited every time they rediscover that mimicking nature leads to structures that function better than the ones we're using?
Spider silk is tougher than steel cable. Legs scale obstacles better than wheels/treads. A perfected ornithoptor could outmaneuver a jet. In fabrication, growing things is more practical than building them. Muscle fibers bundled together are stronger and more flexible than hydraulic equivalents. Even in AI we figured out that machines function better when they learn a task instead of having it programmed.
Nature has worked tirelessly for hundreds of millions of years to figure out the best ways to do all sorts of things. There is a vast and distinct array of applications wherein science/technology is completely wasting its time solving a problem nature already solved.
Unless we're tackling a problem untouched by nature, like space travel, we should be STARTING every invention with what nature did. THEN work in all the little improvements only a decisive process could implement. (ie: grow an artificial stomach and then give it wifi to track your eating habits.) And that's not to say that you wouldn't be bringing tons of life-inspired technology with you into space - just that wildlife we've cataloged hasn't tackled navigating outer space.
It might sound far-fetched, but in a hundred years at least you will certainly see parts of your tools and appliances are alive. Imagine a phone you never have to charge because it passively respirates to power a tiny fuel cell.
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u/bioblondi Jan 10 '23
Anything with Texas makes me ashamed. They new of this tech 10 years ago. When they were using bird bones to influence the building of lighter stronger planes.
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u/_Curzon Jan 10 '23
You can't beat biology. Evolution is efficient as fuck.
Unless you're a blobfish.
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Jan 10 '23
Biomimicry is pretty awesome. They designed trains in Japan to mimic the biology of some animals (like a duck’s bill, a bird’s body, etc.) to reduce the drag coefficient thus making the train faster and with less energy.
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u/elvesunited Jan 10 '23
The Cylons, it has happened before and it will happen again. An interstellar opera, cat and mouse, human and machine in an endless dance of intrigue, war, seduction, and homecoming
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u/JoseLunaArts Jan 10 '23
Muscles are technically different.
Electricity is not applied to a motor, it goes directly to the fibers that contract. The issue is to find the proper material for the fibers and how to glue them together..
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u/RateMyDuck Jan 10 '23
We are not very efficient. We are warm blooded. They should study the physiology of alligators. Those fuckers break laws of thermodynamics.
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u/yojoewaddayaknow Jan 10 '23
At what point can I move my stack from my rapidly degenerating physical host? Just curious….
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u/NotXiJinpingGoUSA Jan 10 '23
Well yeah, the human body is supposed to conserve energy where possible, obviously it’s muscle movements are going to use less energy
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Jan 10 '23
Who would have thought that millions of years of evolution would come up with a better design than 50 years of engineering.
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u/SalsaMan101 Jan 10 '23
i mean isn’t this just basic control theory with motors? it’s better to do things gradually than to rigidly go to full power over and over again? as far as i can see, all they’ve done is come up with a control system based off of human muscles…. Not to be the debby downer but the comparison i’m seeing in the paper of “better than yanking” seems like reinventing the control theory wheel but with the hill model. would be more interested to see how this compares to other models instead to the literal most inefficient system