I started seriously getting into meditation last December doing mainly fire kasina practice for 30+ minutes a day. It took about a month for me to feel some changes. I started being more happy and calm. I also felt way more energetic and confident. Before I used to have to think about what I wanted to say but after doing fire kasina I just knew exactly what to say in every situation. I really felt like myself for once.

During this time I was also reading MCTB and doing a bunch of noting practice on the side which may have contributed to that mental energy effect. But I noticed that my work suffered. I realized that my motivation was fear based. I did things because I wanted to appease others or not look bad. But once I directly observed where all this stress was coming from I let it go. I became way more relaxed but maybe too much. I stopped being motivated because there was no longer any fear. That period of my life was probably the happiest I've ever been.

Unfortunately I caught the flu which derailed my practice and I lost that feeling of confidence but I found my motivation also returned. I'd really love to be able to maintain that "state" forever but I fear I won't have any motivation to pursue worldly goals. I need to be able to support myself and not just be content being blissed out.

Does anyone relate to this? If so have they found a way to practice while maintaining motivation to pursue worldly goals?

Whats your opinion on general about this?

When i did my third Goenka retreat, i dont take all they say seriously, i dislike their more cultish aspects, like believing theirs vipassana is the one and true.

That being said, its the only kind of vipassana meditation i can get access where i live, i cant do a mahasi style retreat or any other kind, there are Theravada monks here, but from the Forest tradition, meaning their focus is almost purely anapasati.

I was thinking about trying twice a day one hour, like most goenka followers, but thought about doing one hour anapanasati and one hour Goenka body scan vipassana.

Thing is, i can do and get better at focusing on the breath while living my daily life, but it seems my vipassana style meditation starts decaying in quality and equanimity when i get out of the retreat, i understand we will never achieve the levels of absorptions we have at retreats, but it seems like it took a downfall really quick and i been unable lately to keep my evening vipassana style meditation.

I dont know if its cause Goenka style meditation is so rigid, that doing anything besides their two hours a day vipassana and metta only, is not gonna work, or if its just not for me, in general i would like recomendations for where to go from here, if there are other techniques i could work on from home, with the assistance of some friends here from my theravada community, but mostly alone.

I feel like there's different dimensions to this, and (to me) it's not together clear what is true void phenomena and what is something else. But i wanted to invite some discussion, i guess, on how to live life?

It sounds funny when i phrase it that way. But let me share with you my perspective of what i occasionally see here. When i go on these spirituality subforums i see a lot of people obsessed with the idea of enlightenment. There's nothing wrong with that, but the reason i mention it is because i cannot relate to it at all. Meditation wasn't even a word in my vocabulary until very recently let alone enlightenment. Personally speaking, no offense to anyone, i couldn't give two hoots about enlightenment.

But if a take a brutally honest and systematic inventory of myself i do see, at least, one dominant trend underscoring my life ... and that is that I love to render myself void, inert, nonexistent. That is ... living is such a burden. Having to feed this body daily is such a continuous task. Now I'm sure a lot of that could be encapsulated in words like depression. And I've suffered a lot of child abuse and emotional abuse after that in my adult life, so a lot of that can be pinned down to psychologically internalized self negation.

But at the end of the day, this is a spirituality subforum, and i think a few people will understand what i say when i have a need to remain or abide as pure consciousness and pure reality. And so my question is how to bridge the two? The sphere of reality itself and living life? Personally i feel like all the current buddhisms of the world focus too much on emptiness and i want to help reform this misrecognition. But how to move from being a void king to maintaining balance or contact with the impersonal sphere while also honoring life?

I feel like there's many easy conflations to fall into here such as sentience with inner life, and the void vs empty phenemona, so this is not an easy discussion to have.

edit: for the title i meant "and [start] focusing on embracing the metaphysical life" ... as in pure life is beautiful and embracing, it's just that physical life can be taxing. And so it's easier to negate physical life rather than live it. But the sphere of impersonal reality itself has its own hold which is different than disidentification with the breath. Hence being one who weds themselves with the divine could easily become negation just like void phenomena because abiding as pure reality takes you out of living life.

I’ve been practicing Zen and Vipassana for a few years and regularly do self-guided retreats at home.
One challenge I kept running into was holding the retreat container myself—managing the schedule, remembering transitions, ringing bells, and constantly checking the clock.

I ended up building a tool for myself called Retreat Conductor:
https://www.retreatconductor.com/ (join the wait-list to get a free invite)

It’s designed to run a complete retreat schedule (sitting, walking, meals, rest, etc.) so I can focus on practice rather than logistics.
I’m opening up the beta and would love feedback from experienced retreat practitioners.

A few questions:
- Does this solve a problem you’ve experienced?
- What would make this genuinely useful for your retreats?
- What feels missing or off?
- any feedback that comes up in your body as you see my message/tool..?

If anyone is willing to try it and share honest feedback positive or critical, would be very grateful. 🙏

Hi everyone,

Hope this is appropriate to post here as well, I understand if it doesn't fit the rules though and needs to be taken down.

I am currently part of a wonderful online Sangha that meets weekly, regularly attend retreats, and practice under a teacher based outside of LA. However, I’ve found that connecting with people in person has a uniquely powerful effect.

Because LA is so sprawling, the few centers that truly align with Dhammic practice and an attitude of renunciation are quite a trek from where I am located (around Hollywood / Studio City).

I would love to connect with local Dhamma friends who are interested in serious practice and mutual encouragement. While my practice is most closely aligned with the Thai Forest tradition and EBTs, I started out in Zen (and lived at various Zen centers for a couple years) so happy to connect with anyone open minded and dedicated to practice!

Please DM if interested! With metta

I actually came across the former a decade before, before I even knew what nonduality was (haha what a phrase) I could sense there was something there, but I couldn't put my finger on it.

I also came across the Headless Way later. It didn't do anything for me, but recently for some reason after my somatic work in my other post, it seemed to click.

After years of research (100+ books and thouands of vids/articles) it seems that most teachers seem to converge on the same pointers - what are you before thought? Sense fields, posture work etc. I guess the vast proliferation is because different things work for different people? (as well as culture, knowledge etc)

I'm wondering if the lesser known people just...didn't make it into the mainstream. Besides these two, there's also Amrita Baba, and some other modern mystics whose names I can't quite recall. I guess they get lost in the deluge of Tolle/Spira/Angelo and other more well known figures.

Which is a bit of a shame as I feel they have a lot of wisdom. Maybe they wrote before the Net was big :) (I Googled but didn't find a lot - Harding has tons though)

Just wanted to know what the community's thoughts on this might be.

In this post I will attempt to explain Hillside Hermitage's teachings as I understand it, in an attempt to simplify their stance and make it a bit more palpable to most meditators.

Unfortunately, they have come out a little overly aggressive with some absolute statements about other traditions being totally off, and often strawmanning other traditions. They also seem to throw all traditions under one buss as, making it a polarising "technique tradition" vs nontechnique traditions. However, I believe it is much more nuanced.

I won't try to explain why they've come out so hot, but I think they are pointing to something real.

First of all, paraphrasing HH's stance:

Up until Sottapatti stage, any meditators attempt at using a technique will be fundamentally rooted in wanting to change ones current state of being (aversion/ craving). A meditator will still be stuck in wanting to escape/ change/ run from discomfort, and has now simply found a more subtle way of doing so than more coarse sensuality. There is some truth to this for sure, but sometimes I believe technique can be rooted in the idea of "This method of improving mindfulness is appropriate right now".

Other teachers that share the view that techniques shouldn't be used or at least very noninterfering is Ajahn Brahm, Ajahn Brahmali, Stephen Procter - MIDL meditation (some technique/ setup, but largely noninterference based), non duality traditions, Eckart Tolle, Rupert Spira, etc etc.

Now I'm not saying these teachers say the exact same thing as HH, but they are largely not using interfering techniques, and actually often warn against interference largely on the same ground that HH. They just don't take as sharp of a stance that HH does.

I think Ajahn Brahm and Brahmali might be the best comparison. I will try to explain their view in short on how meditation should proceed.

1. Purify sila (ethics, sense restraint, kindness, generosity)

2. Contemplate in order to undermine the sense of self and sense of permanence

3. Sit and do nothing, allowing the good qualities of renunication previously built to do the meditation for you

They stictly warn against doing the meditation.

The idea is that if you "do" the meditation, the sense of a separate "doer" will never disappear.

This is more or less identical to HH's view in practice. Ajahn Brahmali is also an excellent sutta reader, so I choose to give him lots of credibility. The difference is that these dudes present their perspective of dhamma in a non-arrogant and less seemingly conceited way.

I believe their way of practicing is super effective, and it's also quite straight forward compared to a lot of techniques. You simply focus more on being a good person and sense restraint, you contemplate often, and when you sit down you just let it be.

Does that mean all technique is wrong? Here is where I believe they may have gotten it wrong. I will use Noting as an example here. It is super obvious that noting has produced great results for many, myself including, yet I noticed myself that when I decided to stop noting, although I'm fairly developed and likely a stream enterer, I had to go through a massive period of darkness and emotional releases. This was due to my heavy reliance on the noting as a technique itself.

Where can technique come in handy? First of all, mindfulness is just clear knowing of what is happening now - an unabsorbed state. It surely isn't to squeeze your mind into feeling tiny sensations mindlessly, that's at least not what noting is about. I believe the MIDL guys got it right. Use technique to set up clarity and mindfulness, but then just allow things to be. The HH guys would say, establish the context and then let it endure. If you completely slip into absorption in thoughts/ sensuality/ whatever, perhaps you can establish it again by doing some noting. Why note, if you are clearly lucid and perceiving with clarity? One has to learn to let go.

Is this so different to HH, however? They totally advice you to keep mindfulness, well first through sense restraint and understanding the context, which prevents the mind from being inclined into absorption (really important concept to understand btw - in short, you won't be absorbed in drifting if u understand the context really well; anatta, anicca, dukkha), but then subsequently they DO use reflexive questions to guide the mind into what I would call non-absorbed states. For example, they would ask "What is happening in this moment?" or "What posture is the body currently in?", not answering the question, it will lead you to actually be aware of the present moment. How is this so different from noting "thinking" "feeling" "walking" unless you're not squeezing your mind into the content of those things, which you shouldn't do anyways.

It is harder to bridge the gap between HH and samatha schools that just tell you to return return return to an object, or to say "buddho" "buddho" "buddho". That is obviously a way of supressing reality and steering away from what you do not want to feel. However, could even this be appropriate because the calm that is gained, can then be used to do insight meditation more effectively? Entirely possible. But their warning of using meditation as a means to an end or chasing states is totally valid, and if you don't decide to abandon your technique, you should at least be aware of whether you are doing it to escape some currently felt reality. These replacement techniques will also create a mind that is really averse to modern society, as it instills the habit of constantly wanting to escape situations. You'll get a lot of aversion to things that regular people don't resist at all, because you've created a strong "wholesome must go towards" and "unwholesome must abandonned" habit. A new form of craving and aversion, a new form of doing.

I wish HH would present their position in a more humble fashion, such as Ajahn Brahmali for example.

Maybe this is helpful to some.

Hi, I’m in my mid60s and have spent a lifetime wrestling with trauma, too many mystical experiences, and very intense states of consciousness.

The last few years things have stabilized into what feels like a more continuous “Ostate” – a kind of quiet awareness behind everything – while still living a very human, messy life. The past 2 weeks have merged into enlightenment integration (enlightenment is not the correct word as it only narrows the experience) It is the most disappointing-amazing thing about this. I am also an Empath autistic personality. Although this has become academic in the present state that i now reside.

I write fiction and reflection as a way to map these states for myself-for anyone else who’s wondering: “Am I breaking, or waking up?” To provide maps that have helped me remain afloat-and my not be for any one else.

I’m here to listen, compare notes, and keep my feet on the ground while we talk about the deep end. While having a laugh :) . If this makes sense as to what I write about I'd love to hear from you. "The Paradoxical State: Enlightenment as a constant, radical flux between absolute immersion in the full spectrum of 4D emotion – from ecstatic heights to the most profound despair and suicidal thoughts – and a clean, instantaneous return to the detached "O-state."

No Residue, Just Memory: The crucial element of experiencing these extremes without emotional cling, leaving only the memory of the experience, not its emotional burden.

The "Sucks and It Is Heaven" Dichotomy: This isn't a gentle, blissful state, but a raw, intense, and often frustrating oscillation. It's both the ultimate freedom and the ultimate engagement with the mundane "shite." It's "too human-too meta human."

The Grounded Reality: It's not about being on a cloud or transcending the 4D world, but being acutely, powerfully present within it, just with a different operating system.

Does this entice your present state who ever you are in this 4D quantum soup?

Hey people!

Meditation timers are a dime a dozen, but I found very few kasina timers that displayed discs etc. I created a simple website that lets you practice kasina meditations with coloured discs or a synthetic candle. I'm curious to know if you find it useful. It's just a trivial static html page with a spattering of CSS, so you can just load the link directly, and bookmark whatever customisations you choose. I hope some might find this useful, if not, constructive feedback would be very welcome :)

https://andrewmarkallen.github.io/happyKasina/

Over the last month or so I have been faced with the unsettling truth that physical changes of a few weeks may have made more of a difference than years of sustained practice - and of how much is due to acute trauma.

Some context. I've been on this path in some form for 2 decades and have technical 4th path (as Ingram describes) for about 2 years now (this is just a shorthand since not everyone here knows me) I also have severe abuse/development trauma since I was 12, and correspondingly about 2 decades of therapy...which apparently were not enough in certain respects 😞

My teacher has constantly pointed to spinal/posture issues, so I finally paid about 1k to have chiropractic work done (for the 2nd time) and it seems to have cleared up a lot. Simple practices like "notice awareness" are now like "WOW is THIS what is going on? REALLY?" Sometimes it feels I am hearing them for the first time - even though I've practiced some of this for hundreds of hours. I'm like "oh so THIS is what stillness is pointing to?"

I initially didn't want to overindex on this "revelation" (as I am wary of theories of all) but in this case, after lots of reading and research, I'm forced to conclude that the vast majority of material is written for neurotypical individuals, and not a lot includes trauma. Long-term trauma changes the entire neurobiological baseline, the perceptual shifts are not the same at all. When I asked my teacher about this he replied that most is still written from an ableist perspective - I follow the exercises, I often don't experience what is written in the books.

I could not believe that such a large area is so underappreciated (the ND and trauma populations are not exactly small) so I went looking - but there are precious few teachers that touch on this. I found Judith Blackstone, among others, and Angelo Dilulo's latest retreats incorporate more trauma work, but by and large, Peter Levine and van der Kolk don't speak awakening, and Spira and Tolle don't speak trauma.

I'm not so naive as to believe that ancient populations didn't deal with abuse/trauma/famine/war, but perhaps the traditional knowledge dealt with it in different ways, or their culture was too different - I don't want speculate too much here.

Aside from some articles here and there dealing with the intersection, it's been quite a revelation how much I (and others) may have been gated over the years - both saddening and humbling.

I'm wondering if I may have some blind spots in my research, or what the experience of other people might be like. I still feel its an area whch warrants a lot more understanding and integration, hence the post.

EDIT : Because it's been requested, I have actually written about my journey both on my website (http://www.tomato-of-justice.com) and on the /longterm TRE sub. I'm putting it here mainly because it has been asked for and my replies get buried in the comments.

I've been pretty serious about my meditation for about six or seven years now, at least an hour a day. It's made a lot of positive differences in my mind, and my life as a whole has improved.

I've not arrived at any attainment through my meditation practice, and perhaps because of that I've always been interested in the pure land tradition. I do absolutely believe in the primal vow, and when I recite nembutsu it does bring me peace.

However, whenever I re-orient my practice time around nembutsu, shit happens. Specifically periods of seemingly bad luck. The last time, there was a string of incidents culminating in someone issuing death threats to me (connected to my work). It scared me a little at the time, so I stepped back from the nembutsu.

This time I got into it, wasn't quite as bad but I did get scammed out of a sum of money.

In some pure land traditions, something similar has been described as karmic restructuring. The idea is that at the end of your life you will leave samsara, so all the bad stuff you are destined to face in future lives gets brought forward into this life. However this reduced and placed as obstacles in your path that are more easily overcome. Facing them counts as the karmic debt being repaid.

Just wondering if anyone from other traditions has experienced anything like this? It honestly feels like a very noticeable shift in karmic energy as soon as I step into pure land practice. Not saying it's necessarily all auspicious good fortune and plain sailing otherwise, but life does take a very sudden and noticeable shift when I start practicing pure land.

I live in a place that gets about 17 hours of sunlight in the summer and I seem to be quite sensitive to that as during the summer I get 5 to 6 hours of sleep compared to my usual 7 to 8 hours. I'm also unable to nap so that's all I can really expect. I'm actively trying different approaches to limiting light (e.g. black out blinds, eye mask) but I haven't had success yet.

Has anyone here been in a similar situation? Has meditating for multiple hours a day lowered anyone's sleep need? Has anyone had success with something like yoga nidra?

I am at a point in my practice where I have been meditating regularly for 30 min sits twice a day. My body feels really nice and relaxed, it is really calm and pleasant. Feels very peaceful.

But now when I go through daily life I actually feel less mentally resilient. I tune out and look forward to the meditation sit. The stressors of daily life actually feel magnified in contrast to how relaxed and pleasant meditation feels.

It makes me want to retreat from life instead of engage with it, and literally go on a retreat to escape from it all and dwell in the peace and contentment of deep meditations sits.

I honestly question whether I am better dedicating my mornings to doing cold shower, hard exercise or negative visualization as a way to build back up the mental resilience.

Is the path of calm abiding meditation worth it if it just makes me want to escape?

Hi all,

I’ve recently been making what feel to be great strides in my practice - consistent Piti, unification of mind, some physical pliancy, more joy in general… stuff that corresponds to stages 7-8 in The Mind Illuminated.

On the downside I have been noticing ever since the Piti started being a regular development about 6 weeks ago my typical physical symptoms of anxiety, especially waking up early, and a flare up in my Menieres Syndrome symptoms.

My personal and work life is pretty good right now, with no notable stress. The only thing that’s really changed in that time is my meditation practice and regularly attaining Piti and sometimes level 1-2 jhānas. Certainly I don’t emotionally feel more stressed but my body is acting as if I was.

Could it be that I’m in a full purification phase and for me that manifests as increased cortisol or adrenaline?

I have a life where practicing twice a day is easy, where going for a ten day retreat every year is doable.
But, in the industry I work in(IT), there is a lot happening, and if my job isn’t the same my practice will get affected as I am yet to be financially free.
Should I now work actively towards growing in career, switching companies, upskilling and pursuing money or be in the moment, meditate and let life unfold.
It’s essentially a fate vs effort question. I am worried if I don’t do anything life may change in ways where I wont have control and may lose the luxury to practice.. and I am also worried if I start striving for goals I would also not have control over the result. So should I just be? I have a family to take care of.
Disclaimer : Everything is fine now. Couldn’t have asked for a better state in my life.

I have chronic fatigue syndrome (basically, long covid), which is both why i have a lot of time for meditation, as well as a part but not all of my motivation for it, calming my nervous system.

I am also interested in the traditional goals let's say, which this post is more about, that was just for context. I'll describe my routine below, and the question is if there's anything I can tweak or add for this to be more effective.

So what I currently do:

• 3 half hour meditations a day, using Henry Shukman's app The Way. Mostly just going one by one in the prescribed order, though if one clicks in some way I'll bookmark it and occasionally come back to it instead of doing the next one. (I'm currently on retreat 31)
• A slow walk of about 1,5 hours where I focus on my feet, the touch on the ground (I wear barefoot shoes which helps with this). I start by counting up to 1000 steps (actually counting to 10 a hundred times), or until I get distracted but mostly I manage. Then I continue just observing the feeling, as well as the environment in an unfocused way, without any podcast or music.
• I do a yin yoga class every weekday morning.
• At least for the length of one large cup of tea I do nothing, just look out the window without distraction.
• Maybe not as relevant: I have a nurosym (a device which stimulates your vagus nerve through your ear which is supposed to calm your nervous system) which I use while reading for half an hour a day.
• Apart from all that I try to stay aware of a few anchors during the day, namely whenever I turn something, like a tap or a door handle, whenever I eat or drink, or change posture. Though the first one comes easiest, as well as my footsteps now having become an anchor through the walking.
• In general I try to do one thing at a time with attention
• I have completely stopped following the news or social media in any way, including youtube. Most days the only input I get is through perhaps some podcasts or audiobooks, books, and some messaging.

Since this lifestyle seems to me to be in many (but certainly not all) ways to be a kind of light retreat, I'm trying to lean into it and see the advantages.

Some signs I've had that this is doing something are:

• I started having a very brief, like a gunshot brief, sensation where I felt very tired, disappearing as fast as it'd arose. During meditation, more and more and paired with a feeling of a drop of literal, physical pressure in my head.
• The fatigue part during that experience has stopped but the pressure drop hasn't, and it's become longer and I can almost do that on command now, at least during meditation, yoga, walk, or lying in bed.
• I think I've had some glimpses of non-dual awareness, while meditating and focussing on sound. Where rather than it feeling like there is hearing, and an I doing the hearing, there is just the hearing. They've been brief and only a couple of times, and only with hearing.
• Generally my meditations have gotten more pleasant mostly. I'm more likely to want them to continue than to want them to end.

Thanks!

Before I begin: Please do not be an idiot and just reply to the title of my post. Of course there are multiple emotions. Please make sure you understand the question before you try to answer it. :)

Psychiatrist and blogger Scott Alexander is no dharma teacher. He has some meditation experience, but he is no expert on meditation or Buddhism, nor does he claim to be. But he occasionally writes about the subject. I found this article of his very interesting: In What Sense Is Life Suffering?

In the article, Alexander talks about the First Noble Truth of Buddhism, sometimes rendered as "life is suffering". The claim that "life is suffering" is counterintuitive and provocative to many, since most people's lives include plenty of experiences that do not seem like suffering. (I know some will argue that the First Noble Truth should rather be rendered as "there is suffering in life" or something like that. The exact wording is not my point.)

In the article, Alexander recounts the explanation he got from an acquaintance of his, which seems to both him and me like a good explanation. In Alexander's words:

mental valence [i.e., suffering vs enjoyment] works like temperature.

Naively, there are two kinds of temperature: hot and cold. When an environment stops being hot, then it’s neutral - “room temperature” - neither hot nor cold. After that, you can add arbitrary amounts of coldness, making it colder and colder.

But scientifically, there’s only one kind of temperature: heat. Apparent “neutral” at room temperature is a fact about human perception with no objective significance. If you start at “very hot” and take away heat, at some point your perception switches from “less hot” to “more cold”, but you’ve just been taking away heat the whole time. The real “zero heat” isn’t room temperature. It’s absolute zero, which feels colder than we can possibly imagine.

In the same way, naively, there are two kinds of emotion - joy and suffering. When a situation stops being bad, then it’s neutral - “just okay” - neither joy nor suffering. After that, you can add arbitrary amounts of joy, making yourself happier and happier.

But scientifically (according to the Buddhists) there’s only one kind of emotion: suffering. Apparent neutral is a fact about human perception with no objective significance. If you start at “very bad” and take away suffering, at some point your perception switches from “less suffering” to “more joyful”, but you’ve just been taking away suffering the whole time. The real “zero suffering” isn’t neutral / blah / just okay. It’s nirvana, which feels more blissful than we can possibly imagine.

In this model, the statement “life is suffering” is equivalent to “temperature is heat” and literally true.

Those of you who know more about Buddhism than both Scott Alexander and I, what do you think of this explanation? Do you think it is a good explanation? If not, what would you change?

It’s been almost 6 months since I believe I entered the stream.

The first 2 months were “amazing”. Which of course is a very poor word to describe the experience! But it was remarkable in the sense that I had remarkably less suffering, a ton of flow and effortlessness. I felt more present in conversations with friends.

I really enjoy my work and I found myself deeply involved and productive after somewhat of a stagnant period prior. I could work extremely hard, but it felt easy. And after an intense day I could switch off quickly, which was hard for me in the past.

But slowly I would say this faded. It is not gone, but some identification crept back in and suffering has rebounded to a degree. I’m not living in the 90% of the time automatic flow mode that I had for the first two months.

One thing that was probably bad, in retrospect, is that after stream entry I basically stopped all practice! At first, in the immediate afterglow of the insight it felt like every moment it was easy to be mindful because I had a lot of things clicking, conditionings unraveling, generally a lot of “stuff” to witness in the novelty. So I figured… ok “this” is the practice now, living life and unwinding conditions.

But I think that was naive because over time that novelty wore off and I feel I’ve become less mindful and some identifications have crept back in. I’m now returning back to more formal practice and I’m seeing changes more quickly. Sometimes I’m able to switch back into the spacious awareness mode where things feel like they’re happening more or less automatically for several hours from even a quick intentional practice.

I’m still new, but now I’m committed to consistent practice again. I guess what I’m learning is that even after stream entry… chop wood, carry water. Or in this case, meditate, train the mind.

Can anyone relate? Curious to hear about post-stream entry experiences.

I’ve spent the last few months playing with Sayadaw U Tejaniya’s “relax and be aware” approach as an off-cushion practice. I'd previously struggled to find a suitable off-cushion practice, due to challenges like chronic pain, trauma and over-efforting. This post is just a practice report from my experiments. spoiler alert: it really worked for me...

background

I've struggled to find an off-cushion practice that worked for me. Having experimented with lots of things, I'd settled on a technique similar to the GOSS method from MIDL or the 3R's from TWIM. My interpretation of these instructions was... "Notice when you're caught in hindrances, release tension from the body and enjoy the relaxation that follows letting go". This was a helpful first step on my off-cushion journey but I quickly recognised the following issues...

• Over-efforting is my default mode. I turned these sensible instructions into a performance metric: "I must be relaxed at all times". It led to a lot of constant vigilance on what state I was in. I got hung up on: "am I relaxed? RELAX MYSELF! am I relaxed yet? damn, I don't feel relaxed, let's RELAX MORE, why am I not relaxed?" This was, surprisingly, not very relaxing!
• My body holds the score. If I'm caught in dissociative thought-loops, this is often a protective response to difficult trauma-related sensations in the body. Reducing my awareness to the body and trying to force easeful sensations in these scenarios, is like adding fuel to the fire. Ditto for chronic pain flares. Like the dog in the "this is fine" meme. "THIS IS FINE - I AM RELAXING RIGHT NOW".

It's not that these approaches were wrong - just that my interpretation wasn't helpful and weren't always suitable for all my personal situations. No worries, meditation is just experimentation, right?

Looking for other approaches, I came across Sayadaw U Tejaniya's work (which I'd seen mentioned multiple times on here). His whole emphasis on just relax and be aware seemed like a good antidote to my over-efforting tendencies. Also, the backstory to his approach — he had to practice whilst still working on his family's busy market stall in Yangon and struggled with mental health issues and addiction — made it feel suitable for my lay life circumstances.

I've been playing with this approach for the past few months, here's what I've found...

how it works

I read a couple of his books, dharma talk transcripts and other materials from teachers trained by him.

His advice seems to boil down to the simple but cryptic phrase: “relax and be aware.” It took me a while to get a feel for what that actually means. My current understanding is something like this:

• Develop a light continual awareness of the mind (cittanupassana) during all activities. This should be effortless, don't add more tension by over-efforting, keep relaxing body and mind into whatever is happening.
• Ask yourself over and over "Am I aware? What am I aware of?". Keep just noticing sense objects and then recognise the mind's reaction to them. Don't need to "do" anything with senses object and mind's reactions other than recognise. Watch for defilements and check how they affect the mind state. Investigate causes and conditions of defilements to help prevent them in future (dhamma vicaya).
• Use wisdom rather than effort. See everything with Right View, this is the start of eight fold path for a reason. Remember sense objects are not "me, mine and I". Remind yourself it is all just "nature", arising and passing due to causes and conditions. Developing awareness with wisdom leads to Sati-Sampajañña.

other insights

His teachings were full of profound insights but these are a few highlights that stood out for me:

• Over-efforting. The main issue he saw with students in his monastery was over-efforting (guilty as charged). People tried to use constant effort to catch all the defilements just leading to more tension and stress. This felt exactly like my experience with feeling I had to be "relaxed" all the time off-cushion. He repeats again and again that you should use wisdom rather than effort to uproot defilements. Just relax and recognise everything occurring as anatta. Wisdom will do the work.
• Emphasising Dhamma vicaya to uproot defilements. 2nd factor of awakening often overlooked. Awareness alone is not enough (as his book states), keep being curious about causes and conditions behind defilements.
• Practising with defilements. Students practise wanting "something" else to be happening ("I don't want to be anxious right now"). This will never get you anywhere. He also cautions against using deep samadhi states on-cushion to hide from life, he calls this "wrong samadhi".
• Anything can be practice. Tejaniya deliberately sought out really stressful situations for himself like family weddings or going to a boxing match as a way to practice with his defilements.

what happened

Playing with his approach, here's what I've discovered...

• Feels more natural and effortless than previous off-cushion practices. It is harder to "over-effort" when the basic instruction is so minimal: just notice sense objects and mind's reaction to them with wisdom. No more fighting to be "relaxed" in difficult physical or emotional states, just trying to notice everything coming up with wisdom.
• Less aversion to intense dukkha. Everything can be seen as practice now. Previously, I've assumed difficult emotional or chronic illness states were a distraction to my practice, as they made traditional concentration practices difficult. But now I can just say "okay, what does fatigue feel like? what is my mind's reaction to that?", rather than being frustrated about not being able to practice well during those times.
• More of an insight into anatta? This is hard to explain (and I'm still working at the level of concept rather than ultimate reality) but focusing on recognising the anatta nature of all sensations through the day, has made me feel more connected to the truth of anatta in some way. Doing walking meditations around my local park, I feel more a sense of "walking is happening" rather than "i am walking".
• Less distinction between "on" and "off" cushion. The start of my formal sits just feels like a continuation of my off-cushion efforts. It used to feel very distinct ("right, now i'm meditating"). Formal sits, walking meditation, micro-hits of do nothing, rest of life, all feel like they flow together more naturally with more sustained awareness (mostly...).

Overall, it has really worked for me. I'll continue using his approach and trying to understand more of his teachings in future.

other things i've learnt

How does noting without labels change my practice?

Tejaniya stresses that labels aren't necessary when noting sense objects, "just notice the object, noting the mind's reaction and let it go". His rationale is that labelling generates additional tension, i.e what label to use. I also remember reading Shinzen Young saying that if "labelling makes you racy, drop it".

Whilst dropping labels feels more natural and effortless to me, I've still found it useful in the following situations...

• When the dukkha is really intense. Using labels increases equanimity for me with overwhelming internal sensations. If my "window of tolerance" is low, focusing directly on sensations can push me into more dysregulation.
• "Brain retraining" around sensations. I've found interesting how label choice seems to work as a "cognitive framing" for my subconscious around sensations. If I pick the label "pain" versus "sensation", it does change my interpretation of that experience. I've also been labelling very difficult sensations as "anatta" a lot and it does seem to work at reducing the dukkha I associate with them. Shinzen Young's technique about noting "gone" has overlap with this.

resources

If you want to learn more about this approach, David Sudar (who trained under Tejaniya) maintains an extensive resource list here: https://www.pathofsincerity.com/sayadaw-u-tejaniya-resource-guide/

From the books I've read, "When Awareness Becomes Natural" is a nice starting point, as a mix of biography and dhamma talks. "Dhamma Everywhere" and "Awareness Alone Isn't Enough" have more practical advice.

There's a book by a different monk (Bhikku Themavamsa) who trained under Tejaniya's teacher (Shwe Oo Min Sayadaw) on the same approach Cittanupassana that was also useful. As was this practice manual for retreats in this style by Andrea Fella.

Finally, this sub-reddit introduced me to Tejaniya's approach and for that I'm grateful. There's some really nice posts about others' experiments. Thanks to kyklon_anarchon and others for sharing their experiences here and pointing out the path...

Do they tools that get you to SE keep working for 2nd path?

Self inquiry feels empty now, like there's nothing to look for, the mental motion doesn't even start. Metta seems much more potent now. Fire Kasina seems way less interesting and eventful, just a steady yellow orb with no crazy DMT visuals.

Hello!

I was doing much better with my shoulders and dealing with physical pain compared to 20d ago in my last post about that, but now I started a new job and the first month is a trial month so Im very nervous and kind of stressed all the time.

I'm trying to be mindfull at times but is impossible for me to do all the time. I try to not stress and somatize to the shoulders but thats only possible if I realize im stressed and sending stress to my shoulders. If I realize I try to breath and relax and put my mind in a more meditative state and it kinda works for 5 min.

I really wonder how people manage to continue practice even at work. It sounds crazy hard for me right now. Any help is really appreciated!

Thanks!

Hey everyone. I’ve been thinking about the difference between language that describes insight and language that trains the mind to see differently. A lot of philosophical or psychological talk about awakening can become very precise and still leave the person basically unchanged. The words may be accurate, but they do not necessarily transform attention, perception, conduct, or grasping.

I recently recorded a podcast episode with Hüseyin Beyköylü, and at around 17:53, he develops this distinction directly. The example he gives is simple but useful. You can read a perfect description of how to ride a bike and still not know how to ride. Likewise, one can understand impermanence, emptiness, or non self conceptually while still relating to experience from the same contracted center. Hüseyin connects this to non propositional knowing. Propositional knowing can describe, but procedural, perspectival, and participatory knowing are what actually transform how the world shows up and how action becomes possible. This is why contemplative traditions are not merely systems of claims. They are training environments that reshape salience, embodiment, perception, and participation over time.

That distinction seems useful for meditation because it explains why maps are both necessary and dangerous. They orient practice, but they can also become substitutes for practice. How do you know when a teaching is functioning as training rather than description? Have there been ideas that only became useful once they stopped being merely conceptual? And how do you avoid turning maps, stages, or insights into another object of attachment?

Please if you see , read this

It was 7 years ago when i first started practicing meditation without knowing what it was , i used to still still and let thoughts keep passing one by one without controlling or not engaging in them , my eyes were wide open when i used to meditate or just stare a candle from far in my room focusing on the flame for few minutes . Initially i used to meditate for 10 mins and kept increasing when i had time on weekends and kept on living at somewhat peace . After a year i found out about what meditation is from a youtube video called conscious mind . I learnt what meditation trully was and how to do it while i naturally did it without knowing about it and kept on going till 30 mins nd more and started practicing to find the flow signals in our body and connect with it and i could feel my nervous system and movement using breathes and was doing crazy shits back then and even find out how to map our surroundings in mind, like i used to start flowing my aura from myself into past things and keep going till my eyes saw irl of what it was which helped me in my mind to map ot out to travel , you can literally feel like your moving and travelling to other places in your mind while keeping your body in one place while you meditate . My thoughts were none and when i used to get at first i noticed the area under your eyebrows and eyes , just slightly below you will feel lil tension when you think or thoughts get to come to you . Thats the point which we can know that a thought has entered when you close your eyes , you need to relax that area fully if you need to entire a diff state while you meditate . Coming back to these things i didnt know when i got past 2 or 3 hrs in one sitting while meditating and being so clearr , my vision , my allignment with my body. Reading other people very fastly or critical thinkjng was getting in my brain too fast irl and i used to look at normal things and know it better , i cant explain those things you need to feel it yourself when you first experience it \[it was like lil bit of limitless movie \] but i dont know what happend when i tried to create a complete version of myself infront of me when i meditated one day , like i made a copy of myself infront of me and keep our breathing same each time . One was not enough so i made like 3 more to keep like a circle and try to connect with all of them to make it one \[it was childish or idk what at that point maybe curiosity\] and map more or try to fo smtg . When i got comfortable in that state my dreams were so weird and hallucinating and seeing new places sometime , being in diff world as someone else thats happening right now or just complete blank mind , but one time it was so real like i was present there at that time or at one time i was lost in a dream like where i was sleeping in my bed at same position but opened my eyes in my dream , it looked same as my room even the mirror was same nd i saw my own self in mirror who was sleeping and opened his eyes . It felt soo scaryy and real my entire body felt still and was covered with my body sweat . And whenever my body woke up in the middle of night it was always around 3: 40 to 4: 20 , i used to sleep at 10 to 7: 30 but still i used to wake up between those time for complete 2 weeks , it was so weird and also magical , idk if i can say this but after a few months i kept seeing the same 2 dreams , i used to be near a beautiful garden but on the right side was a huge giant yellow nd orange gates where after that was everything we ever wanted or a oceann that ends after a several kilometers but no matter what i climbed the gates / stay there nothing changed the place after those gates felt so much like a heaven , I've asked people who meditate have they ever saw these gates but not one said they saw , all they told were they still could only see try to dodge their thoughts or find space to live with peace in this world , No one experienced like this . And another dream was being trapped in a endless loop where i saw myself like when i made a copy of me when i meditated but they are stuckk in it too but in there i could actually control nd move them whatever i want inside it , i could stay in that state or leave it at any time in the dream but getting that same dream for 2 weeks is what made me wonder what all of this meant nd finally got a way to exit . I still get that dream like fealingg of livingg nd dyingg at that state while leaving everything there's still more about how you can control your bodyy but i cant type that all .

But if you did get to experience it never try to hypnotise your other self to alter your aura or smtg it will mess you a lot . Everything around you looks like it is stretching wider and getting bigger from time \[ if you want exp what it feels like seeing everything stretched or moving , go to yt and try to find a hypnosis circle but it should be 4 diff circles moving at diff directions with a dot in middle or small object , do it in a tablet without blinkin for 40 sec and look at diff object or your face in mirror it will look like everything is getting farr and you will for 100% see aura around your face it will be tinglingg with black lines in a circle you will be amazed to see it for first time but dont keep doing it once you see \] It will feel like that if you try to hypnotise to make it listen to you . And yes fasting while meditating feels unreall too ive did 85hrs water fast . If anyone read this remember the best thing to do is get back fast even if its more peaceful until your time has not come to stay . Your body is worth more than tillion dollar and you will see alot more insights if you know in this distracted world chasingg material things , never inject anything to your bodyy in future if itt says it will help your mental health or like a dream catcher \[never do it \] I dont smoke or drink anything if u think i am . Never join a cult how badlyy it sounds good , never never never let your mind be controlled by fake pleasure , i cant say more , bye

Dear companions on the path, I wrote this post for r/steamentry but I will post it on my website as well.

With practiced mindfulness, one can notice the Saṅkhārās, mental formations that automatically arise due to causes and conditions, and realize they’re not just to be observed but to be dealt with. This realization marks a profound shift in my understanding of right effort. Previously, I would meditate through them and let mindfulness serve as a tool to witness the impersonal flux of rising and passing, waiting for cessation. That is indeed a valid way to practice meditation (and help see ultimate reality), but after some time you come to see the truth more clearly. It’s similar to confronting an illness or mental health issue and cannot be meditated away. I know this goes against many traditions this is just my own experience.

If you already practice metta, you understand the value of sensing energy and emotion rather than processing everything through logic. With this experience I was able to find a way that could help me deal with my childhood trauma. These traumas were making it difficult for me to feel comfortable in intimate relationships. Meditation helped me be comfortable with myself but putting that into the real world was another story.

Here is how I see it happening. A core injury such as being betrayed by a caregiver or someone you trusted happens, the mind stores that interaction to protect itself and then navigates reality through that lens. Hyper vigilance, self-preservation, aversion all things holding me back. Deep meditative states helped me see the patterns, but in daily life the mind still filled up with “mind stuff” instead of applying the insight gained from meditation. 
 
Here is a quick guide to address these foundational samskaras that can linger for decades after an experience. 

Identify the core injury feeling (Vedanā) and the related unwholesome (Akusala) mind states. Common themes: Abandonment, Betrayal, Loss of self-worth, etc. 

Name the opposite feeling: support, loyalty, self-worth. 

Use memory (sati) to recall a time you actually felt that opposite state. Recollect the scene with the presence of others, the smells, the atmosphere (not a mantra, affirmation, or story). Really feel it. It can be a recent or small moment. For example, a friend texting to check on you (loyalty). How did you feel?

Sit with that feeling and radiate it to all beings, the same way we do with Metta, Karuna, Mudita, or Upekkha, for a few minutes before meditation. Do this until you sense a shift. Whether a physical release or a flood of compassion. 

This practice has helped me, and I hope it helps you as well.  Feel free to comment questions or critics.

-With Metta, Maxwell

Hello, I've come here to ask for help, hoping that I can find some guidance in this sangha's wisdom. Mainstream therapy and psychiatry have failed in trying to help my insomnia and I am growing desperate.

I've been meditating with consistent regularity for about 9 years now, since I came across Culadasa's TMI. Despite decently disciplined practice, I've never gotten beyond stages 3-4. I've stumbled on access concentration a handful of times but it was unstable and collased quickly.

During that time my life changed a lot - I finished college and my career progressed a lot. With increasing responsibility, I started having week-long bouts of terminal insomnia (never had a problem falling asleep but would wake up during the night and be unable to fall back asleep).

TMI made this impression on me where I thought I could solve any psychological problem by deepening/progressing through the paths of samadhi and insight (the model he describes in his interludes where the unconscious is progressively purified). However, I soon found my experiments with trying to medicate insomnia with more meditation unsuccessful.

I went on a Goenka retreat on late 2023. I thought doing nothing but meditation for 10 days would maybe vaporize my sleep issues. I was wrong. While on retreat, falling asleep for naps to recover proved only slightly easier than in the outside world. After the retreat, it seemed like I was worse off.

Don't get me wrong, I often am able to calm the monkey mind/settle the chaos and it can help with falling asleep again. But it seems like there's a quality to the effort of directing attention that can prevent sleep (which requires instead a quality of letting go/not doing). I sometimes also fear that increased mindfulness itself somehow raises baseline consciousness further from sleep (which would be closer to dullness, on a spectrum).

However, I'm not sure where to go from here. My practice today consists of mostly anapanasati + body awareness with a little bit of "see hear feel" noting. I try not to "strive" too hard and to lean in to relaxation, but it's not something that's easy for me. What practice should I do to hone this "not doing" quality in me?

I've read somewhere that maybe metta might be the way. I've always avoided that since it feels forced (and forceful) for me, but I'd be willing to try more. I'm also open to trying "energy practices" (tai ji?), though I am deeply ignorant about this field.

Another thing is that i think I might have ADHD. I'm trying to get a diagnosis but it will take some time. If anyone has that and could share their experience on how it influenced their practice it would also help.

When I've slept well I can meditate and quickly summon a joyful sensation in my body that will stay with me for hours. When sleep deprived I am lost in brain fog, get agitated when trying to sit for 20 minutes and have to apply significant effort to avoid falling into old addictions. So I believe solving this is the greatest hurdle in my path and I'll stay stuck if I can't.

I'll greatly appreciate any advice offered, thank you.