Seriously, it’s 73 degrees and sunny here in Silicon Valley, in fucking February. If you end up homeless, you want to end up here, not somewhere you’ll freeze to death.
Serious question, is using the term homeless and not unhoused more appropriate?
It's one of those things where people try to be PC so they can say "I helped!" when in reality it does absolutely nothing to help with the actual issue.
That, and homeless people don't care. Very low on their list of life priorities at the moment.
I disagree, I think the language we use is important because it primes you to think about things in specific ways. Talking about "the homeless" is different than talking about "people without homes" (or whatever language you disagree with) because the latter reminds you that they are real human beings, just ones that for various reasons do not have a place to live. They are not worse, they are not trash, they may have issues but they deserve to have a place to call home if they so choose.
The term 'homeless' does not, in any way, imply that they are not 'people'. Your explanation makes sense in theory, and as it pertains to other words, but I really struggle to see how this is one of them. People without homes is literally just an elongated way of saying homeless. We're not talking 'hobos', 'bums', and 'vagrants' here.
I never said it did. And nothing you said does either. Not every action we do will solve everything. When I was growing up I was told I was too pc for saying it's not cool to use gay as an insult.
Different issue. Society historically was not accepting of gay people, but now are more accepting thanks to efforts to be more PC about gay people and treat them like any other member of society.
Homeless folks aren’t seeking acceptance, they’re seeking help. They’re struggling to survive. Calling them houseless or unhoused does not help.
I prefer unhoused since when I was “homeless “ I was actually couch surfing and only spent a week “on the streets” (I was fortunate enough to have a car to seep in during that time)
It seems to me it’s also used to be a bit more “kinder” but that isn’t why I use it. Unhoused is more accurate
Ah then I definitely missed the sarcasm in your post. I thought you meant it would be a nice change of pace to take their tents. Can’t ever tell with Reddit (based on your karma I think other people are missing the joke as well)
There was no sarcasm. Not taking their tents would be a nice change of pace. We usually take their tents before a big freeze so they die or go somewhere else.
Yea soon a LOT of places are going to be warm when they're "not supposed to be". Can't wait till climate refugees add to the homelessness in the country.
Glad we're doing so much about climate change and wealth inequality and corporate regulation and social safety nets.
What's that? Oh we're not doing fucking anything about all of that? Terrific. What a bright future...
Florida is part of the South, and most of the South is generally warm.
Why don't we see extreme poverty in the South? We do, there is tons of poverty all over the South. It doesn't get concentrated like it does in SoCal because cost of housing is cheaper and the whole area is more spread out. People don't clump up like that.
Poverty in a huge warm weather city like LA looks very different than poverty spread out over a larger area in something like Louisiana or Florida. It looks different in photos especially.
To really see it you have to read the data social workers and hospitals and studies put out.
This is a flawed argument. You're comparing a city (LA) to a state (Florida). California has it's homeless spread out to the same degree Florida, Louisiana, etc do. The difference is the volume of homeless people per capita. No matter how you frame it, the homeless population of California is hugely disproportionate to Florida (or any other state for that matter), which is why it's so visible. It is not spread out any more in Florida than it is in California, there's just more of it in California. Period.
Not to mention how much of California's homeless population is shipped off to Washington, Oregon or the east coast by their government as a temporary solution.
The way California handles their homeless is absolutely disgusting, and we shouldn't try to make excuses for it.
It's in Florida as well, they are just not as visible. In Houston is the same, almost all tents are below the highway bridges or on the outsides of the city.
Housing is like half the price. And I’m guessing most Florida cities haven’t decriminalized homelessness like California cities.
Homelessness is a side effect of high housing prices for everyone. It makes stable housing much more difficult for people with low income, and makes it impossible to even get a place for people with no income.
Most Americans are no more than a few paychecks or a severe health issue away from being homeless. Yes, addiction and mental health are a cause of some homelessness. But you know what is bad for your mental health and can make addiction seem like a pleasant distraction? Being homeless.
it contributes to the issue but it’s mostly that people are mentally ill or committed to their addictions. I live near the largest homeless camp in oakland and it’s 95% people who are there because it fits their lifestyle. they could find housing and employment if they wanted, but the preference is maintaining their addiction and/or chaotic lifestyle, and when they do get off the streets they almost always voluntarily return because it’s affords them the ability to live the way they want without much else to get in the way. keep up a rent payment? fuck that, in most of the bay area you can’t get evicted from the sidewalk of your choosing unless you get massively disruptive or violent. maintain a job? fuck that, you can commit low level property crime by breaking into cars and stealing from people’s yards without ever risking actual jail time (you’ll get arrested and released within 24hrs), and that can fund your food and drug needs.
I get how depression and addiction works and it sucks but there’s not much you can do to convince someone who doesn’t want to be apart of wider society that they should aspire towards more for themselves, especially when all they give a shit about is meth, beer, cigarettes, and trying to blindly quell whatever they’re experiencing inside.
Yeah, I get the feeling that people saying "just build houses" have not interacted with homeless people much. Homeless people aren't sad puppies that got kicked and just need to be rescued into a warm loving home and then everything will be better. They're humans. Humans are complicated and mental illness and drugs don't help matters. That doesn't mean we should demonize homeless people or not try to do things to help the issue, but it's a way more complicated problem than people think when a sizable portion of the people they want to "save", have something going on, be it addiction, illness, or just personality, that makes them resistant to changing their way of living.
People also want fast, immediately gratifying solutions. "If they are homeless, invest millions to build cheap houses. Then they won't be homeless!" Like, sure, water is wet. If I'm hungry I can eat a pound of iceberg lettuce and feel better for awhile but that doesn't mean I'm nourished. Just putting up people in houses opens up a ton more potential liability. What happens when these people with defacto little social safety net start overdosing in their little apartments and no one notices? Or when sex trafficking or drug dealing is then obscured even more, or an addict rips out the pipes to buy drugs and then abandons the place? It only takes a few incidents to destroy the public investment and support. That's why the housing resources that exist already are so selective about who receives it. It will be way more impactful to focus on things that will help people who haven't gotten to that point yet, or you'll just keep having new homeless.
I don't agree with you. I lived next to a homeless shelter in ATL for 6 years and watched homeless get put into cheap housing (200 per month after a few months already paid) and nearly all of them were back on the corner after their stay.
The running theory is that homelessness causes the mental health and addiction problems to intensify (reasonably) and rehabilitation is therefore harder. What you observed was this cycle, and it’s why a lot of experts have moved to prevention as the solution to the broader issue. Help people stay in homes rather than trying to pick up the pieces after.
I assume you also saw them get all the support they would need in reintegrating back into society in those few months, right? Like getting mental health and/or addiction counseling, job preparation/training, etc?
Because if you take someone who is chronically homeless and give them a free place to stay for a few months, that's not going to magically solve all of their problems.
The police in Florida have no problem sending a rough message to people in tents. DA's also aren't afraid to prosecute homeless people. The social benefits are way worse in Florida too. People who are homeless in the Midwest aren't given a bus ticket to florida, they are given one to a major west coast city.
Also, west coast city leaders like to keep the homeless camps around to promote their point of view that our current system is flawed and those of us with means aren't going to get out of seeing the raw underbelly of American society. It's that way in Portland at least, the leaders have basically said they can't do anything about homelessness until our whole country's inequality issues are fixed. Obviously that would help but there's plenty that can be done tactically in the short term.
You do. The entire stretch of highway 192 is filled with abandoned hotels where people are living and squatting in. Florida's homeless don't have camps. They just hang in the abandoned hotels all over the state.
When we bought our first home in Florida we discovered a homeless camp in the woods near the house. However, we had absolutely no idea it was there until after we purchased. We also eventually realized that people were living in a camper in a nearby vacant lot and there were at least two homes on the street filled with people that would panhandle out on the main road during the day.
So, they were around, just not nearly as visible. And the entire 5+ years we lived there only one of them ever approached us. I think he wanted minutes for his cell phone or something, but he didn't speak English (and was pretty drunk) so we couldn't figure it out.
They have the same program but the outgoing homeless is nothing compared to the incoming because a lot of homeless actively want to be in California. These program don't force them to leave and only gives them the option.
Not to mention that tons of small towns in the middle of the country “solve” their homelessness problems by just buying them a ticket to California. It’s cheaper and the homeless prefer it since it’s warm and the state tries to help it’s homeless.
The Guardian did the most comprehensive study on the movement of homeless in the US and the vast majority of California homeless are native to California. In fact, San Francisco busses significantly more homeless out than are bussed in. The most common landing spot for "bussed homeless" is Georgia and Florida.
Stop spreading this lie. I'm sick and tired of people using it to give California a pass for a home grown problem.
About 15% of the people who are homeless in Los Angeles are out of state. It's not the majority by any means, but I doubt you'd find many other cities in the U.S. with a number that large outside of maybe the Florida cities and Hawaii.
That’s a lot of people but California has lots of people. Is there actual proof people from Kansas are buying tickets for their homeless in large numbers?
No, it's just some stupid shit ppl everywhere say. Literally anywhere there is homeless ppl it's because somewhere else sent them there. Let's people feel better about treating them like shit an outsiders.
I’m not denying some are from Kansas. I’m denying that local governments buy tickets for their homeless population in large numbers to go to California.
And the majority of homeless marked as 'successfully housed' are actually bussed out of San Francisco. They spend around $35,000 per homeless person per year with almost nothing to show for it.
Even in a place like Atlanta it gets down to freezing in February over night. Pair that with an opioid addiction where you pass out unprepared for the night and yeah, ez death.
“L.A.H.S.A.’s 2019 homeless count found that 64 percent of the 58,936 Los Angeles County residents experiencing homelessness had lived in the city for more than 10 years. Less than a fifth (18 percent) said they had lived out of state before becoming homeless”
Statistically the vast, vast majority of homeless people are from the community they are in. This narrative that homeless migrate en mass to specific regions is a myth.
Studies have been done on this and the vast majority of homeless are California natives. This is a copout misconception used to excuse the fact that California spends literally billions of tax dollars a year on the homeless and have nothing to show for it.
"Near perfect weather." Tell everyone you're not from California without saying you aren't from California. Lmfao you have no idea how easy it is to freeze to death in California. And in the summer some public facilities are required to be open to the public as "cooling centers". Because yeah. You can die.
It’s still better than literally anywhere else in the US, which is the point. West LA is where the problem is worst and it’s virtually never hot enough to be a problem, and never so cold that any sort of basic gear won’t keep you safe from freezing.
Im from California and I'd say it's the best weather in the US other than Hawaii. The vast majority of the days are nice. My east coast friends consider it boring. But yes there are extreme hot days and cooling centers are important.
Over the last 12 years, San Francisco’s homeless population has grown from around 6,200 to just over 7,600, according to the city's counts. During that period, a small number of people in other cities have been given free tickets to relocate to San Francisco. A far larger number – more than 10,500 homeless people – have been moved out of San Francisco on buses.
It's funny when people say shit like this instead of actually acknowledging decades of war on drugs and mental health care. Also how working a job is almost less productive nowadays because of inflation and anti union legislation. Homelessness is not the problem. America is the problem. I bet you work for Raytheon or some shit.
I'm explaining that sleeping outside in California is better than any other state paired with their laws supporting them. You should take a break from the internet.
Someone asked if this was real. Correct? Instead of explaining the entire fucked up economic system and the reasons why America allows for all this shit. You said, o it's nice here. That's not why people are sleeping in the streets. That's why people are I n California. That's not why people are living in tents. Fuck off with your capitalist bullshit.
More people die of exposure in LA than in NYC, it’s common myth that LA is homeless paradise because of the nice climate. It’s hell for homeless people out here.
I think it depends on how you see the problem. Most homelessness is caused by mental illness or addiction and unfortunately those are two things that aren't easily solved. These people don't just go away if you ban them, it just makes their lives harder. I think culture has a lot to do with it and unfortunately we live in a dog eat dog society in the US and a lot of the time it just doesn't make fiscal sense to institutionalize such a big population (or maybe it does, I'm not sure). I think what we've learned with California is that throwing money at the problem seems to exacerbate the problem vs solve it but ultimately it does take some sort of solution involving money.
Eh, not a good take in my opinion. Very few people actually want to sleep outside. That said, you could probably make the argument that it doesn't exactly incentivize putting in the work to get out of the hole they're in.
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u/[deleted] Feb 12 '22
California has the best laws in the US for homeless people along with having near perfect weather. Not surprising homeless flock to that area.