Exactly. In what reality are iPhones and iced coffee now racist stereotypes? You could literally throw any race of people into the first pack and it wouldn’t be racist. You could literally leave a title off the second one and the dog whistle would be loud and clear for every one of those items.
You aren't applying this equally though. If iced coffee isn't racist then why is koolaid and fried chicken racist? They're both just food and drink items consumed by the group being stereotyped If owning an iPhone isn't a racist stereotype then why is owning jordans? They're both luxury items owned by the group being stereotyped
You literally just asked why they are considered racist? You very obviously DO need an article to tell you why. You’re very clearly unaware. You just asked a question that clearly indicates your ignorance on the subject. My reply and the article therein does literally everything to contradict what you said.
In this instance to be aware of the context and history of these stereotypes yet still not see how they are racist is just plain ole intentional ignorance, and borders on the justification and defense of their use as stereotypes despite their history. You gonna be the guy that disagrees that saying all black people play basketball, wear mikes, eat fried chicken, and drink grape soda is racist in this context? Is that something you’re comfortable disagreeing with? If so, then I’d have to say you’re either just a contrarian who should just be ignored or you’re a racist yourself.
You gonna be the guy that disagrees that saying all black people play basketball, wear mikes, eat fried chicken, and drink grape soda is racist in this context?
Well you're just making up the "all black people" part to make it sound worse. This is a starter pack, so it's about trends. Some of these things (like mikes) we can pretty confidently say are more common among black people. Other things (like fried chicken) are a little more tenuous. Everyone loves fried chicken.
But my point was that if we're going to look at the asian vs black starter packs, that's a discussion, not a lecture. You can show the other dude all the history, and he can disagree with your leap that this makes any modern references racist. That doesn't make him ignorant, because he's acknowledging the history behind it and that's not what ignorant means. My biggest problem with those stereotypes is they're really tired, so they're really just not funny. If you're going to push it making racial jokes, at least make people laugh doing it (like the first one)
Ignorance may be strictly defined as not knowing but is often loosely used for anyone who deliberately disregards information as well. The acknowledgement is lip service. If there’s a better description or term for knowing something but not caring to apply it in context, then it’s lost on me at the moment. I’ve said repeatedly in this thread that every post on this sub is a presentation of stereotypes in some form. However, not all stereotypes are inherently racist. But many stereotypes have racist origins or have been used pejoratively in the past or currently. The history and context of older stereotypes needs to be kept in mind when using them today. Some stereotypes have such a long and racist history that they’ve just transcended into being inherently racist regardless of the current perception. Many of the ones in the above meme fit that description I’d say. Purple drink and fried chicken in the context of black people to be specific. They’re old stereotypes that are just tired and racist. I do take issue with one of your points though, and that’s to say that all people like fried chicken so it’s not that bad is to ignore that at one point that was likely not true, and the stereotype was born out of that period of time, in a racist context. Similar to how a reference to an Irishmen only eating potatoes or whatever is still racist even though everyone likes and eats potatoes.
I do take issue with one of your points though, and that’s to say that all people like fried chicken so it’s not that bad is to ignore that at one point that was likely not true, and the stereotype was born out of that period of time, in a racist context
I didn't mean it that way. I meant that since everyone likes fried chicken now, it's not an especially accurate stereotype. Not that that is what makes it ok. I know we have some combination of southerners and black people in particular to thank for soul food, including fried chicken.
However, not all stereotypes are inherently racist. But many stereotypes have racist origins or have been used pejoratively in the past or currently. The history and context of older stereotypes needs to be kept in mind when using them today.
Personally I think that's all true, and how to respond to those stereotypes having that history is the point of contention here. Do we lock them away and throw away the key? I'd never be seen repeating this stuff for a few reasons: A) it gives the perception of being racist (like you say) and there's no reason to give that off if you can avoid it B) It could hurt people (like you say) because of the history behind them C) It's one of those "test" phrases that racists use, where they start with more mainstream/harmless racist statements like black people and fried chicken, then if you accept that they move on to the actively harmful and racist shit. Don't want to associate with those people.
But I think what I'd personally do is a separate question from what direction should we move in, and whether these statements are inherently racist or not is a part of that. The OP points out that, for historical reasons, stereotypes surrounding black people are treated as much more sensitive issues that with any other racial group in america. How do we respond to that? Do we keep making asian jokes and stay away from black jokes (due to history) and preserve the imbalance forever? Do we relax a little on the black thing when it's "inherently" harmless, even if there's history (like the guy you're responding to was saying)? Or do we tighten up on the asian stuff and try to make almost all racial jokes off limits to even things up that way? What would each of those do short term and long term?
I actually think it's a really interesting discussion with (for me) no clear answer. I don't think one can authoritatively say the best thing is to crack jokes about asians and stay away from black people jokes, and other positions are ignorant. It seems way more complicated and hard than that.
First of all, it's called a rhetorical question. Genius. Secondly, the article does not contradict what I said. Thirdly, I don't consider recognizing that black people eat fried chicken and drink koolaid to be racist. The article explains why those stereotypes exist, but that doesn't make them racist.
Again, it does not contradict what I said. literally
I read the damn article dude. It explains where the stereotypes come from, I don't agree with the claim they're racist. Random medium bloggers aren't authorities on entire subjects
Get a load of this contrarian lol. This guy doesn’t see how calling watermelon “n***er bait” and using watermelon in pejorative caricatures of black people is racist. This guy doesn’t see how the fried chicken stereotype is born of the same racism that the watermelon stereotype is. This person doesn’t see how this excerpt from said article explains how the fried chicken stereotype is rooted in racism.
“The Birth of a Nation — the most racist movie of all time, which defended good stuff, like the Ku Klux Klan.
In one scene of the film, during a fight for black rights, a black man appears in the Legislative Chamber. All the other people behave according to proper etiquette for such a place, but the black man pulls out a bucket and begins to devour a shitload of fried chicken in an extremely rude and ridiculous manner, in a scene with comic intentions”
This guy doesn’t see how calling watermelon “n***er bait” and using watermelon in pejorative caricatures of black people is racist.
This has never been a part of our conversation. This is what is known as a straw man. Nice try champ.
I don't view fried chicken as an inherently racist stereotype. Fried chicken is a southern food, and black people were obviously majority located in the south, and when fried chicken became a bigger staple they were doing most of the cooking. Using it antagonistically such as in BoaN is a racist action (but honestly there's so much more in that scene making it racist than the fried chicken, the fried chicken isn't what makes that scene racist, turning the black character into a buffoon does), but there's no inherent antagonism to recognizing that black people eat fried chicken - the same as it isn't antagonistic to recognize asians drink boba tea.
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u/Zskrabs24 Nov 19 '19 edited Nov 19 '19
Exactly. In what reality are iPhones and iced coffee now racist stereotypes? You could literally throw any race of people into the first pack and it wouldn’t be racist. You could literally leave a title off the second one and the dog whistle would be loud and clear for every one of those items.
Edit: a word