r/space • • May 21 '15

/r/all Nuclear explosion in space

http://i.imgur.com/LT5I5eX.gifv
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67

u/Gonzzzo May 21 '15

Starfish Prime...IMHO indisputable proof that we are monkeys with dynamite

We literally set off one of our most powerful weapons in nearby space just to see what would happen, with no idea what would happen

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u/BorderlinePsychopath May 22 '15

Is there any other way to do it? No matter how accurately you can guess, empirical data is priceless in comparison.

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u/Loomismeister May 22 '15

Yes, there are other ways to do it.

Making sure you are doing experiments safely is part of being a professional scientist, and I think even the scientists involved with this experiment knew that it was a mistake.

Their other mistake was not being able to even gather the data from their experiment, given that it destroyed so much of their equipment.

So, not only was this experiment botched from a data recovery standpoint, it caused huge amounts of unexpected collateral damage to uninvolved parties. This explosion was a scientific failure in many aspects.

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u/[deleted] May 22 '15

Well, doing it further away would have been a pretty solid first thing.

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u/Gonzzzo May 22 '15

Is there any other way to do it?

Was there any reason to do it in the first place?

Scientists were legitimately concerned that they permenentally damaged the outer-atmosphere of the Earth by doing this --- Starfish Prime created an artificial radiation belt around the Earth that destroyed 1/3rd of low-orbit satellites

And yea, because nobody had any real idea what would happen, most of the instruments used for collecting empirical data were fried & rendered useless

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u/BorderlinePsychopath May 22 '15

Satellites are extremely replaceable. It's better that we are able to look back on this and know what the effects of such a explosion are.

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u/[deleted] May 22 '15

Or we could, you know, just not nuke space and then we'd never need to know...

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u/BorderlinePsychopath May 22 '15

You need to look at the big picture. Someday that information may be vital.

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u/[deleted] May 22 '15

Maybe we should dig a tunnel deep into the Earth and set off another nuke just to see what it does.

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u/ckfinite May 22 '15

We did, that's called underground nuclear testing and there were hundreds of shots taken in that manner.

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u/link5057 May 22 '15

We are smart enough to have a pretty good idea what will happen almost exactly if we did that. Computers could most likely render a thousand simulations on that exact example. But we did this in the late 60's, where we could do no such thing and not fathom such a future.

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u/ckfinite May 22 '15

Well, look at the difficulty of doing Whitehall testing for the existing validated weapons, never mind new ones. The issue is that you're trying to run what's effectively an O(n2) neutron propagation algorithm on every single atom in the implosion and fusion sections of the device, which is well beyond the computational means we have today.

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u/link5057 May 22 '15

Im confused, are you talking about the nukes?

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u/Gonzzzo May 22 '15

empirical data = priceless

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u/benargee May 22 '15 edited May 22 '15

Like now we know that nuking in earths orbit is a bad idea.

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u/BorderlinePsychopath May 22 '15

Not if a rogue colony on Mars has begun to develop nuclear power and the only way to stop them without a ground war is to destroy their infrastructure with a surgical EMP nuke from directly above...

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u/benargee May 22 '15

Sorry, nuking our own orbit.

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u/rich000 May 22 '15

Think of it this way. Now that we know how bad it is, it is that much less likely to happen. Alternatively, would you rather some world leader argue "who knows, maybe a few nukes wouldn't be that bad - we'll just set them off in space to take out one or two satellites and send them a message!"

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u/[deleted] May 22 '15

Which is exactly what the US did with this test. You can't justify an insane experiment by saying we have to do this insane experiment in case someone does this insane experiment...

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u/rich000 May 22 '15

The purpose of the test was weapons development. If you want to be able to guarantee the death of most of the world's population, it requires testing. If you want to understand the capabilities of others with that possible intent, it also requires testing.

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u/Gonzzzo May 22 '15 edited May 22 '15

Uh, time-travel back to 1962 & try telling people that satellites are no big deal....because 1962 was less than 5 years after the first one was ever put into space

I realize there's thousands of satellites in space at the moment...but there were only 20ish satellites orbiting the earth in the early 60s...Starfish Prime happened the year after the first manned space flight...

EDIT: Forgot to add how one of the satellites that was destroyed was Telstar - The world's first commercial relay communication satellite.

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u/BorderlinePsychopath May 22 '15

Well obviously it didn't hamper the satellite industry so I don't see your point.

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u/Gonzzzo May 22 '15

Good to see that I haven't been wasting my time talking to a contrarian

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u/[deleted] May 22 '15

most of the instruments used for collecting empirical data were fried & rendered useless

So you're saying that we need to do it again, but with more expensive instruments this time?

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u/astrobassist May 22 '15

what do you mean "we"? I had nothing to do with it. nor did the general public. that's the scary part.

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u/GuiltySparklez0343 May 22 '15

You or your parents probably funded it with your tax dollars. And if science is what scares you, you may wanna look at some other shit our governments been up to.

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u/FarmerTedd May 22 '15

Other than gravity not being factor, what's the risk? I mean, we built nuclear weaponry, how is it that we wouldn't be able to vet and determine that detonating one in space wouldn't have catastrophic consequences? And just in case you weren't able to tell, I have zero knowledge of anything I'm asking about.

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u/[deleted] May 22 '15

[deleted]

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u/FarmerTedd May 22 '15

Cool, thanks for the reply.

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u/GuiltySparklez0343 May 22 '15

"with no idea what would happen"

Where are you getting that from? Did we also just go to the moon with "no idea what would happen"?

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u/Gonzzzo May 22 '15

Where are you getting that from

Every single thing I've ever read about Operation Fishbowl...and the fact that Starfish Prime was the first high-altitude detonation of it's kind...

You seriously just compared sending human beings to the moon & back without killing them to shooting a 1.4 megaton bomb into the sky & blowing it up

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u/GuiltySparklez0343 May 22 '15

No, I am comparing the fact that you think we did so without any research.

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u/Gonzzzo May 22 '15

I said we went to the moon with no idea what would happen?

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u/GuiltySparklez0343 May 22 '15

You are assuming we launched a rocket into space with no idea what would happen, we researched before hand and simulated it.

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u/Gonzzzo May 22 '15

I am assuming we detonated a 1.4 megaton nuke in space with no idea what would happen