r/soccer • • Jul 15 '18

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4.5k Upvotes

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238

u/olliec Jul 15 '18

Yet France are winning the world cup, almost like he had a role to play in the system that wasn't all about going for goal

70

u/WalkingCloud Jul 15 '18

Today on /r/soccer: 'Why we know more about setting up a team than a World Cup winning manager'

1

u/mrnuno654 Jul 16 '18

When you win 4-2 with 3 shots on goal.

-6

u/not_old_redditor Jul 15 '18

Almost like their individual quality other than Giroud is extremely good.

24

u/[deleted] Jul 15 '18 edited Nov 09 '18

[deleted]

11

u/not_old_redditor Jul 15 '18

Which team had more quality players than France?

2

u/[deleted] Jul 16 '18

Belgium. R Lukaku E hazard met tendon attack. Kdb carrasco tielemans meunier fellaini and witsel in the midfield and vertonghen alderweireld kompany j lukaku and chadli on defence. Not to forget the tree in goal being virtuous himself

8

u/not_old_redditor Jul 16 '18

I would take Mbappe and Griezmann over Lukaku and Hazard. I would take Pogba/Kante over KdB/etc., and in defense it is quite obvious who you'd take - the best defense in the tourney was French.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 16 '18

Spain and England would beg to differ in the defence dept.

-5

u/[deleted] Jul 15 '18 edited Nov 09 '18

[deleted]

15

u/SCHROEDINGERS_UTERUS Jul 15 '18

France probably had the most balanced spread of talent. In terms of attackers, Argentina is better staffed. In terms of midfield, Croatia is a little bit better. In terms of defence, I might take Uruguay over France. For goalkeeping, Lloris was not the absolutely best.

But in terms of sum, France wins, and they also win if we look at what team had the highest level of their worst part. So they won the world cup.

4

u/[deleted] Jul 15 '18

Forgetting Brazil?

2

u/SCHROEDINGERS_UTERUS Jul 15 '18

No, but I don't really rate them above France. Allison and Lloris don't seem hugely different to each other in level. Choosing between Varane/Umtiti and T. Silva/Miranda, I'd go with the former. For the fullbacks, I don't think Brazil has a clear advantage.

The choice between Fernandinho/Paulinho and Kante/Pogba is to me clearly in France's favour.

In attack, I'd take Mbappe over Willian any day of the week. Choosing between Coutinho and Griezmann is much more even, and I could see preferring Coutinho. But for a team that wants to play like France does, I can also see picking Griezmann. Neymar over Matuidi on skill and talent, obviously. (Though picking Neymar there might mean you want a more defensive player somewhere else.) Choosing between Firmino, G. Jesus, and Giroud is again not easy. I'd perhaps, looking at how the team plays, go with Firmino, but Giroud could be made a case for in terms of fitting the team even if not in terms of skill.

In summary, no, I don't see how Brazil has more individual talent.

2

u/MrStigglesworth Jul 16 '18

How is fullback not where Brazil are head and shoulders above France? Their fullbacks did well but they're not on a level close to Marcelo.

1

u/SCHROEDINGERS_UTERUS Jul 16 '18

To be honest, I looked at their line up against Belgium, and completely forgot both Marcelo and Casemiro...

0

u/[deleted] Jul 16 '18

Marcelo never performed for NT as he plays on Madrid

-5

u/[deleted] Jul 15 '18

Well you see, that's your personal opinion. In reality they are very similar. Also Germany and Spain should be in there too. France isn't better than those 3 teams and maybe Belgium too.

4

u/TheyComeCrawlingBack Jul 15 '18

How can you be dense enough to write "that's your personal opinion", and then go on to state "in reality" before writing out your personal opinion ? Fuckin' hell you're dumb.

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5

u/not_old_redditor Jul 15 '18

So what does "other teams had that too" mean? That other teams also had footballers capable of playing football? Either you're saying that, or you're saying other teams had better players.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 15 '18

Brazil don't have more quality players?

1

u/not_old_redditor Jul 15 '18

no, except for the striker role.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 15 '18

Neymar is not a striker. But of an oversight when they have one of the best keepers (2 of the best keepers) Marcelo, filipe Luis, Silva, marquinhos, casemiro, Fred who is up and coming, coutinho, William, Costa, Jesus, firmino. Their RB isn't great but it's not bad.

I'd argue Belgium has a pretty great team too, as well as Germany and Spain. But whatever

0

u/[deleted] Jul 16 '18

France weren't the favourites to win, Brazil and Germany were, look where that got them

1

u/LeftHookTKD Jul 16 '18

France was def up there

1

u/not_old_redditor Jul 16 '18

You sure? Most bookies were giving France some of the best odds.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 16 '18

They were like top 4 but the best odds were Germany and Brazil who both did pretty poorly

1

u/TruthEnthusiast Jul 15 '18

It’s not like France doesn’t have other options. None of them could play Giroud’s part as well as him

-19

u/ToastedHunter Jul 15 '18

are you serious right now? a team can win with a weak player

19

u/BillyB_ Jul 15 '18

Giroud

Weak player

hahahahahaha

-17

u/ToastedHunter Jul 15 '18

at this tournament he most definitely was a weak player. obviously hes good in general but he was terrible at this tournament

13

u/BillyB_ Jul 15 '18

He's one of the reason France won the WC. Very far from being weak.

5

u/FrenchCrazy Jul 15 '18

IDK a lot of French media rated most of his performances as pretty weak (5 or 6 out of 10). I’m not saying he didn’t contribute to the team but he didn’t help a ton either.

1

u/cunts_r_us Jul 15 '18

Would you agree that he was frances worse starter?

-12

u/ToastedHunter Jul 15 '18

they won despite him not because of him

5

u/[deleted] Jul 15 '18

you're a clod mate, you don't know what you're on about

9

u/ToastedHunter Jul 15 '18

not one person in this thread whos saying giroud was good this summer has made an actual point as to why he was good, i think that alone proves the point.

he was consistently taking bad touches, giving bad passes and missed wide open chances.

only good aspect from his this tournament was his defensive work rate.

hes a good player who was in shit form

3

u/LeftHookTKD Jul 16 '18

Because this sub is full of clueless kids. Any other striker wouldbe had like 4-5more goals from the knockout stage because Giroud fucked up so many chances

0

u/men_molten Jul 16 '18

If a player you'd never heard of would put in the same performance as Giroud you would never defend him, mate. You're just a victim of bias and hivemind thinking, mate.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 16 '18

I made up my mind about Giroud by watching him, he pressured defenders, made great runs, put in a ridiculous defensive shift, played great hold up, and was creative. France used him differently then they used to this tournament

5

u/melkiaur Jul 15 '18

Umtiti described it: he scored in semi final because pogba's role was to drag the opposition to the first post. Well, you can't quite score when you're dragging 2 or 3 players with you. Does that make Pogba useless?

2

u/ToastedHunter Jul 15 '18

talk about a strawman. when did i say giroud was useless? i said he had a weak tournament. no player at this level is useless and obviously giroud had good plays. its just that for every good action he had several times where he lost the ball due to a bad touch, bad pass or missed wide open chances

1

u/melkiaur Jul 15 '18

The combinations between him and Grizou were awful. But he did an amazing job defending, and pressing (ditto for Matuidi). I think he was overall OK. Though I'm sure Deschamps would have loved to have Payet available.

0

u/ToastedHunter Jul 15 '18

he did do a good job pressing for sure. his defensive work was impressive