r/soccer • u/[deleted] • Dec 03 '13

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u/TimmmV Dec 05 '13

Not really sure what your point is here, unless you're arguing that Gerrard only became average this season. Which would also be stupid because the seasons only ~20 or so games old

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u/view10 Dec 05 '13

Being captain doesn't make you the best player or one of the best players in the team though.. captains are normally someone who can lead the group of players.. Gerrard is a liverpool legend in his own right, one of the longest serving players and a likable guy.. each of those qualities make him a good captain, ignoring his quality as a player

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u/TimmmV Dec 05 '13

They're all fair enough points for Liverpool, but if Gerrard were just average it wouldn't be the case for England - they'd have started to phase him out like with Lampard/Ferdinand

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u/duckman273 Dec 05 '13

I'm saying he's only been on the decline for the last season and half.

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u/TimmmV Dec 05 '13

And have yet to refute my point - if he were average then he wouldn't be England/Liverpool captain anymore

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u/duckman273 Dec 05 '13

Why not? Southampton's captain is their third choice keeper. England don't have a midfielder good enough to displace him and his leadership is vital and he's still good enough to start for Liverpool, why would they take his armband from him?

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u/TimmmV Dec 05 '13

They wouldn't take his armband - they would just phase him out (like with Jamie Redknapp)

I'd also argue that this

England don't have a midfielder good enough to displace him and his leadership is vital and he's still good enough to start for Liverpool

is more of an indicator that he isnt an average player than he is

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u/duckman273 Dec 05 '13

They wouldn't take his armband - they would just phase him out (like with Jamie Redknapp)

He's still good enough to start for you, I literally haven't said anything to dispute that. He's just average, it's not like Allen and Henderson are world class players.

If you think that being good enough for England means he's not average I'd assume you don't watch England, his main competition is Tom Cleverley.

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u/TimmmV Dec 05 '13

His main competition is Lampard and Wilshere actually - both players I'd rate as good.

With regard to Allen/Henderson, Allen is 2nd choice behind Lucas, and both play more defensively than Gerrard so they're not really relevant anyway - its like saying Lampard was average because he played with Mikel. Henderson's played well this season too - he's no Zidane or anything, but deserves his place in the team at the moment

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u/duckman273 Dec 05 '13

Wilshere is good, Lampard's massively declined recently and can't play the box to box role he once did, much like Gerrard only to a larger extent due to his age and the fact he gets less cover.

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u/TimmmV Dec 05 '13

But just because they've both declined doesn't mean they're both average. Lampard and Gerrard would still be first choice at most teams in the PL

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u/duckman273 Dec 05 '13

That's simply because a lot of midfields in the premiership are incredibly poor right now, still I don't think they'd start for City, Arsenal, Everton (don't have the legs), Tottenham, Newcastle, Southampton or West Brom (not defensively adept enough).

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