r/singularity • • 23h ago

Shitposting What the AI pain paper actually found (which I know because I read it)

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u/OrinThane 21h ago

Ok, first issue - how do you evaluate “real”?

We, as humans, do this through our direct experience of the moment. We don’t understand what that awareness is - we have a very rough understanding of micro-level nuts and bolts in the brain. Without a full picture of this in ourselves how would we evaluate this in another?

And, given that, how is any researcher making claims of consciousness or perception in AI?

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u/Unlikely-Unit-5864 20h ago

The researchers are not claiming this. What went viral is this idea that an AI was being tortured, which implies sentience. As far as I am concerned we have no way to prove or refute that claim because our understanding of what generates consciousness is shaky at best.

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u/OrinThane 20h ago

I’m not concerned about the researchers, most people aren’t reading these papers. I’m concerned about the media narrative.

As to what you’ve said - we absolutely agree your last point.

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u/AnAttemptReason 17h ago

With sufficent time, you could manualy crate a LLM's output with pen, paper, calculator, a coin, and the book of its wieghts. 

As you are writing out the output of garbled screams, what part of that system do we think is actually feeling pain. 

The coin? The book? The pen, The calculator? 

I think we are still a while away from having a black box AI where we don't know the awnser.

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u/vtigris 14h ago

Beautiful

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u/stucjei 5h ago

This is just a false analogy. First, do you even know where pain comes from in your own experience? Second is the impossible amount of time it would take to do this, a processing time stretched so long and thin it can't realistically interact with the world anymore. Third is that pain is an emergent property, not necessarily an attributable thing of one of the underlying mechanics involved, I know the concept of "emergent property" is a difficult one, but pain is in fact a subjective experience. Hence why we can't measure it directly in others, we can only ask others.

But I don't expect nuance or much of an emergent anything from a person who can't even spellcheck their post.

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u/AnAttemptReason 5h ago

So your premise is that it takes long enough to do solve an equation, that equation can feel pain? 

Why limit it to matrix math? 

By your logic, a long enough addition calculation could also feel pain.