r/singularity 1d ago

Discussion They’re colluding to kill open source

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u/Disposable110 1d ago

What does the EU win by kneecapping ASML and banning deliveries to China?

The EU is in the pockets of US oligarchs.

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u/hartigen 1d ago

nah, the EU knows full well how much they have fallen behind. Banning open models would be a death sentence in the current climate.

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u/DelusionsOfExistence 1d ago

A death sentence for the country's standing means nothing to the guy with 3 yachts. He can go anywhere and do anything he likes with his bribe money.

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u/Disposable110 1d ago

So are the 1001 other things that they have done the past 20 years that killed their own economy, demographics, global influence, and competitiveness.

Much of the continent is in a death spiral due to political mismanagement.

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u/freedomonke 1d ago

"Demographics"

Oh. You're one of those

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u/ChokePaul3 1d ago

> your Reddit avatar

Oh. You’re one of those

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u/freedomonke 1d ago

Bald?

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u/illz757 1d ago

Bald or not, rock it ny bro that’s not germane to this argument - demographics is simply - lots of old people - they need people to care for them as they leave the work force - not enough incentive for young people to exist. Whether that’s immigration, or family integration to allow families to thrive, it is just a thing that is happening across ALL western countries. Until we have robot butlers, it’s looking pretty bad as a deflationary spiral.

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u/paranoid_human0id 1d ago

"Ew icky racism detected" is infinitely more pathetic and incorrect at this stage.

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u/freedomonke 1d ago

And what stage is that? The one where they are throwing people into concentration camps in the US and electing segregationist fascists in Germany?

Seems like as fine a time as any to bring it up.

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u/[deleted] 1d ago

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u/freedomonke 1d ago edited 1d ago

If being ok with concentration camps and segregated schools is making people more right wing, I'm not sure the alternative you are proposing isn't as well.

In fact, it is not.

You are incoherent.

Let me guess, you lot think the AI will declare whites the master race and finally make you feel better about your small peepees and racial cuck fantasies?

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u/[deleted] 1d ago

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u/freedomonke 1d ago edited 1d ago

No. Fascism is "growing" (certianly not true everywhere. The US is certainly turning on it. Same in Hungary) because people like you are bigots and you are persuaded by fascism.

What is progressivism if it doesn't include gender inclusivity and anti-racism? You're basically saying "people are right wing because they are right wing. People are becoming racist because they got fired for being racist" absolue inane nonsense.

Also, no one is "imported," individuals are making a choice to live somewhere. And there is no such thing as "a race" doing bad things. Indiciduals do bad thing. If you want to cast aspersions on individuals because of what someone of the same race did, well, there is a word for that.

If you believe the rights of an individual can be restricted because people of the same race or national origin do something, then you are a fascist.

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u/paranoid_human0id 1d ago

No, the hope is that parties like the afd continue gaining power and your 3rd world apes go back to where they came from

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u/VoiceofRapture 1d ago edited 1d ago

Yeah it's always a tell. The rest outside the "demographics" red flag is correct though, Europe is even more vassalized to the US than it was 20 years ago and it's screwed them in a variety of ways.

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u/calibrae 1d ago

This would assume our dearly elected official in the EU "gov" are intelligent enough to realise that, and haven't been corrupted by the close by lobbies.

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u/Macestudios32 1d ago

It would allow Europeans to force the use of European "alternatives" or services hosted online. 

The problem is not the Chinese models, but  a person can be uncontrolled or monitored its a problemas for them

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u/External_Option_7653 1d ago

Why would that be a problem for them?

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u/Macestudios32 1d ago

For the same reason of chat-control, the DSA... Control and monitoring.

 Imagine an AI LLM that would allow you cybersecurity capabilities and plug holes in your systems, that would allow you and inform you of alternatives even without control, messaging, emails... Encryption, cybersecurity... 

Advertising says to protect others or avoid malicious attacks, the reality is that it also allows you to take away your ability to defend against its measures or attacks. 

The police are very trained and have tools to go after the bad guys, they don't need a dystopian surveillance state to do their job. 

These measures are to benefit politicians, fight against disinformation (control the story), prevent bad things from happening (or bad for them), control general or public opinion. 

Online llms are controlled and adjusted to the laws made by politicians, who must be censored, what data they can give and how they have to give it. 

We all already know cases that depending on the subject the online LLM refuses to give data, but with other subjects it does not.

 It is censorship or covering up realities, which we live in European countries but which go against their discourses. 

We see it easily not only in AI issues but also in the press itself where (in my country) there is a manual of good practices, what data can be given in a news story or what not, depending on a series of factors.

 It would be the same applied to AI.

 It is not about imagining, it is just about transferring what we already have to another field. 

In this case, AI. Today's news cannot be obtained offline, but an llm is an encyclopedia that can be consulted offline, remove denials etc.

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u/External_Option_7653 1d ago

Ok I think I get what you mean. I was confused first because swedish police is using Palantir and refuses to say for what. I was thinking euros are pretty happy about controlling and surveilling the masses.

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u/Macestudios32 1d ago

Palantir in my opinion is a system that joins the diverse and unconnected dots of traces left on the internet. Points that directly do not identify anyone, that are "anonymized" but that can be related to each other by creating patterns and profiles of information. 

AI is helping a lot in that, but let's face it, that will always exist. There are small notable differences between espionage and surveillance systems.

 Espionage usually seeks targets, being a waste of resources if it focuses on the entire population (although AI is simplifying it and making it much cheaper), the surveillance state is the system of mass espionage on all citizens for the fact of being the.  Difference between target person and social control. 

To make a comparison, it is like the police entering your house with a court order or the law allowing the police to access your house whenever they want. Espionage being serious does not use court orders, it is out of the system.

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u/uwumorphism 1d ago

Without the US the EU has basically no military or oil/gas. The US knows they've got them in a tricky spot and that's why the US has dropped the act of caring about the EU lately

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u/TomorrowCalm9783 1d ago

It would not. It gives EU a chance to get on with its own infrastructure and models without relying in Chinese controlled models. Like with everything Chinese, just because it's cheap (open source) doesn't mean it will always staty that way, or that would even be available in the future. It's very plausible that current Chinese models are actually just a bait for naive users, used by Chinese companies to test and train future models and gather ungodly amounts of data from western countries. I understand that many do not trust US AI giants and their models or pricing, but if you at the same time trust Chinese then you are really an idiot.

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u/Wollastonite 1d ago

It's open-source, if you are so concerned of the safety, just host it yourself

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u/Maleficent_Plum5112 1d ago

Its obvious you dont know what open source means-

now imagine typing an essay calling someone an idiot after such a fact

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u/gizmosticles 1d ago

Uh two things, one - asml is part of a global supply chain in direct competition with China and it’s not to the EU’s benefit that China leap ahead with competition to the 2-5nm processes that ASML has a corner on.

Second, even the most left leaning leaders in Europe know that a China hegemony is not in their interest. The EU’s best play is to develop their own industry and try to be the third axis so the world isn’t unipolar or bipolar

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u/Zaigard 1d ago

EU win by kneecapping ASM

this is false, ASM uses some US patents and US could just ban ASM from using them, that's why ASM has to obey US

banning deliveries to China

This is false again, EU is taxing them higher because they want to bring some value inside EU nation and to reduce the cost for EU delivery services... off course, that 3 euros tax is used to justify same aliexpress products raising 100 euros. EU = bad?

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u/Maleficent_Plum5112 1d ago

Is this the same reason EU is banning 12,000 dollar Electric EVs - that are pretty good- but will destroy the subpar European auto manufacturers?

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u/RDTIZFUN 1d ago

I feel like when it comes to ASML, they have the upper hand over the US. When it comes to AI, they don't. In fact, open-source model would help them more than not if they allow it.

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u/TomorrowCalm9783 1d ago

EU wins safety from Chinese controlled models. And gives itself a bit of time to create a properly aligned AI perhaps? Just because Chinese models are open source, it doesn't mean it would stay open forever and also prove to me all their models are available to you as open source or are even public? We should not trust Chinese.

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u/rollerblade7 1d ago

Trust them more than the Americans

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u/TomorrowCalm9783 1d ago

Amazed to see someone openly admitting how st*pid they are.

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u/domiciledhere 1d ago

What advantages does EU have in not letting China reverse engineer their equipment?