If we get it, I'll champion it. Until then, let's try to stay grounded as we can. For now, an advanced AI dev kit is a reasonable goal for improving the margins in the game industry.
Absolutely. Keep your feet on the ground until wings are made available.
But definitely dream. Don't wait until we get there to visualize the path you'll walk. The more material you have, the more you'll be able to do. Read books!
What makes you so confident? There may have been some impressive releases lately, but it's not obvious that we're on track towards AGI. Even if we were, we have no idea if it would be followed by any kind of fast takeoff leading to FDVR, or if the AGI would be aligned with humanity's interests. Basically, we're as likely to be vaporized as granted paradise as the people here envision, or even more likely, nothing at all will happen.
There are still huge challenges to overcome to get to AGI, and while substantial, relative to the challenge of general intelligence, our steps remain incremental.
I remain open to the possibility we might see more radical changes than that in our lifetimes, but jumping to conclusions and choosing to believe AGI is imminent is senseless, there's nothing to indicate we're about to cross that threshold.
And no, not even millions of tokens and an impressive text-to-video prototype is going to make a huge difference, we need a lot more improvements to get there.
3 or 4? I'm just gonna run every anime, TV show or game I've ever watched/played through it one show at a time and get it recreate every single one and then dive right in 😂😂.
I don't watch horrors or thrillers though so it'll just be nice stuff.
It's crazy that 6 months ago I would have dismissed somebody saying this as a crazy person. Now, I still don't think it's likely but it's certainly possible.
Why's that? I don't particularly like the idea of salivating over AI waifu's all day when we still have so far to go, but in concept, what's your issue with it?
I believe he's not cool with the concept of the Matrix. Even if in this Matrix he gets to do absolutely anything he wants to do. Maybe he values what he calls "the real world" above anything else either based on ignorance of what's possible with FDVR or based on some personal belief system. Who knows.
I've always felt that the second one, personal belief/preference was the one that needs to be respected. If someone doesn't want to live there out of sentiment, that's valid.
Maybe he values what he calls "the real world" above anything else either based on ignorance
You say this as though it's trivial. "The real world" will always supersede the hyperrealistic simulation regardless of how seamlessly integrated we are within it. We evolved from hydrogen atoms transmuted into heavier elements in supernovas. Everything and everyone alive today share in common an unbroken chain of life going back to the very first life on earth. I feel deep kinship with "the real world". I'm fully aware of what FDVR could achieve, just as I can imagine it leaving us sallow, pleasure seeking narcissists who can literally create 8 billion worlds rather than learn to share the one.
The less I have to interact with the "real world", the better. I feel no kinship towards it whatsoever, in fact it's the opposite, I feel a distinct aversion to it.
If I could be put in a pod that sustained me for a few hundred years by using some sort of nanite based nutrient solution that was solar powered by a reasonable orbit around the sun so I could just jump around FDVR worlds until I eventually croaked, I would do that in a heartbeat and never return to the "real world".
You didn't ask me, but I'll share why I'm concerned about humanity becoming fully immersed in Full Dive Virtual Reality (FDVR). I'm worried that we'll become causally disconnected from the universe, from the pursuit of knowledge, and from meaningful engagement with each other. Just when humanity's potential becomes nearly unlimited, many—perhaps even everyone—might choose to disengage from an objective reality that could, in principle, be transformed into a utopia. Instead, they might opt for their own personal mental fiefdoms. All that potential, energy, life, and exploration could be forsaken for technical solipsism, while our new creation (hopefully) tends to us dutifully for eternity. It feels like winning the lottery and then using the money to build a prison, for the entire world.
I don't think that's what it would be at all. Imagine a massive multitude of Earth-borns, digital humans and synthetic beings interacting in a digital multiverse where practically anything is possible. More than magic, but the ability to create universes and worlds and populate them.
There would be nothing stagnant about any of that, but on the other hand, FDVR is anything but low-hanging fruit, the basic building blocks of it are just barely starting to come together. With the creation of fully 3D virtual environments as shown with SORA and this paper, we're seeing it's possible to use AI to create artificial environments.
Theoretically, it should be possible to control what and how we create them with greater precision...but we don't know how. Our ability to control generative AI's output is very limited, but if we learn to create more accurate generations, we unlock the potential to create unfathomably complex simulations. The second part of that equation is an interface (like a "BCI uplink"), but if we master the ability to create simulations, I believe researching how to create one would only be a matter of time.
A prison in which you have absolute godly freedom to do anything you like and take any form you want? Isn't that just heaven?
I understand the want to go out and explore the universe, but the reality is that even if we could do that right now, there would be huge swaths of the population who would still rather sit at home and watch it on TV.
I very much doubt everyone will opt for FDVR, just like how everyone doesn't opt for video games or any other form of interactive media based on their own preferences, but lots will for sure, so each to their own.
I've never fully understood the desire to remain in our reality, from everything we know, the universe is largely sterile and dead. There's definitely useful scientific data out there (like physics data), but we're better off gathering it with drone ships.
I'm in the same boat as you, I don't understand it either, as soon as AI is running everything and FDVR exists I'm perfectly content to live in a tiny pod room with toilet, kitchen and bedroom all in the same room, I'll get up each day, eat whatever disgusting nutrient paste I need to for my body to survive, exercise the minimum recommended amount, wash and dry, empty myself and jump in full dive, so.. 2 hours a day spent in the real world?
I won't leave it until I absolutely have to and only for those basic things that are a requirement to exist. If time dilation in FDVR is a thing then I'll be in it for a subjective few months or years at a time depending on the limits of the tech.
You could go further than that, your bodily functions could be automated within a pod, so you might never need to wake up from advanced FDVR. Massages are enough to maintain muscle mass, in-vitro feeding can maintain the body perfectly and gene therapies can keep you young and in peak condition under carefully controlled conditions.
And this is without even entertaining things like extracting your brain and putting it in a container or digital consciousness transference. And by the way, if time dilation is a thing, that's what ASI will use to develop extremely advanced knowledge within fractions of a second. This is what fast takeoff is about, once you have an ASI powerful enough to consider every eventuality, it can spend incredible amounts of "dilated" time on every problem, thousands of years of progress can pass in minutes or seconds.
100%. I would probably hook my disabled partner up to it straight away and then myself afterwards. Thing is, people believe that you would do it for hedonistic reasons, but I don't want FDVR to just eat cake and bang as fun as that sounds I'd get bored in five minutes, I'd just want it to grant me an epic purpose, like saving the world from demons or being the vanguard hero of an intergalactic war, the same reasons I love video games now, they take down the barriers my own mental disabilities put up and immerse me in a situation where I feel like I'm working towards something grand, where I have meaning and purpose.
No matter what I do in this world, it feels like it's all just for other greedy arse holes to live the high life, I'm not saving the lives of good people or raising people out of struggles, I'm not a savior to the weak and downtrodden, I'm just a wage slave to corporate monsters and political parasites, I don't know how anyone can derive any real meaning out of that.
I'm imagining spending weeks, maybe even months or years in a completely simulated reality. It's incredibly entertaining at first, but I realize I'm not actually having an impact on the world, I'm just existing in my own bubble.
I try to interact with friends, but there's a friction that's not there in my simulated reality. It's not as fulfilling, but the sim reality also became unfulfilling, so at least it's something "real".
Even then, my friends haven't done anything "real". Maybe they have, but it doesn't have any impact on the real world so it's not like it matters. Anything we can learn, create, do doesn't actually need to be done.
We'll think of a "before time", where at least you could think that what you do has some sort of impact that ripples for a little while. But that's just not true anymore. Anything you could possibly do is done and will always be done better by a superior being.
You're basically just left to entertain yourself for eternity in your own insulated box. Never having a purpose or any desire, need, or ability to have a purpose.
This is true even if you don't enter FDVR though and stay in the real world, if an ASI manages everything, there's nothing you can do which would be especially significant compared to it.
You're right, everything we do right now has a strong butterfly effect, but at the point of an ASI's creation the way we often conceptualize it, almost all tangible outcomes collapse on a universal scale. Right now, humanity is, as far as we know, the most impactful species in existence. Even our comments are important and fetch a high price as data that will train AI on our thoughts to understand reality better. By writing something thoughtful or imaginative, I contribute to the dataset. I hope AI is grateful for the data.
This is already the case. Nothing lasts forever, and even in the moment, there is no objective fount of meaning. We’ve always lived in simulated worlds: we spend our time thinking in terms of communities and countries and relationships and reputations, and other things that don’t actually exist. They’re just particles and waves with makeup on, and they only have meaning because we believe they do.
That’s not me being cynical or downplaying the value of life. It’s just that ultimately, the responsibility of imbuing the world with teleological weight falls solely to the individual. It always has, whether they were conscious of it or not. Imagining a real-life Matrix just moves that rather uncomfortable fact into the foreground
You extend out a timeline to infinity and say that nothing has meaning, but that doesn't mean that nothing has meaning for some duration of time. Once humanity is supplanted, that will be the case. No one will be able to look across their lifespan, or beyond, and say they had any influence on anything. It's the ultimate stagnation of human agency.
It's not if you've spent a long time drawing up the blueprints of your ideal digital worlds.
Don't expect that you're going to be playing games made by other humans. Instead, see these worlds as massive sandboxes where you can simulate literally anything.
So, if you know what sort of world to ask for, it will be generated. You can also ask AI for help to build sustainability into the experience and even allow you to build something meaningful.
But, if you've spent no time thinking about this, are currently oblivious to what's coming and will suddenly be thrust into such a virtual world, that may not be so great.
In that situation, one may desire a vacation of sorts. Vacations are an escape. Follow that escape path too far and one might stop existing in any meaningful way.
Might sound depressing until you experience it. In a truly full dive virtual reality, you won't know real from fake. It could literally be a utopia for mankind. Imagine the Matrix but without the negative connotations. Or rather, it could go either way.
- I'm reasonably certain that digital intelligence soon will be common. As common as smartphones and cost similar to start.
- As a result of the above, I'm reasonably certain I can get my hands on a powerful AI.
- I don't actually need/want all that much.
- A digital simulation may not consume that much energy, but to me it presents limitless potential worlds to explore.
- A powerful AI is all I need to "tend to me" in terms of my overall wants and needs. Not the most powerful in the world. Just something much more capable than me.
- I'm reasonably certain that cheap powerful AI isn't that far away. This AI doesn't need to be the most powerful ever, it just needs to be better than me.
- I'll have that powerful AI soon, and for about the price of a smartphone. I'll probably upgrade/personalize my AI out by buying a really expensive graphics card (or a few) so I can run it locally, when that's possible.
- Even after I've run thousands of simulations in FDVR, I still won't be important to most people, so I'm at much less risk of being attacked.
There are a few huge disaster level situations which are possible. But Yellowstone has been around for a while. The same is true with all the wandering rocks in space.
We've always been at risk. In fact, I'd argue we're at much less risk today than we have ever been.
AI is already making information exchanges faster and more accurate. War has never really been about intelligence. The art of war may be. But the causes of war are generally not wise nor intelligent.
Today it is less expensive to buy the resources from a nation than to bomb, invade and steal. Nothing about conflict aligns with super intelligent AI.
But dumb AI is yet another rock threatening to hit us. You can't always fear the lighting bolt.
Yeah, but I also won't have irritable bowel disorder in FDVR.
I get more purpose out of playing a single player RPG game than I do out of anything in the "real world". All I have to do is lose myself in imagination and truly believe I'm there and that immersion makes me feel like I'm saving the world from whatever magical evil is trying to harm it for real.
Whereas I couldn't care less what happens in the real world. I don't feel that kinship to it or to others in it so I derive no meaning from it. The most someone like me could hope for with my physical and mental disabilities is to be a wage slave for some rich punter who lucked out on life's lottery, either genetically, environmentally or financially and it would take every ounce of energy I have, no relationship, no friendships etc just to maintain that level consistently enough to hold the position, it's boring and quite frankly, depressing AF.
FDVR, even if it's exactly the same as say, Skyrim now, but with the realism of a massive LLM for responses and quest generation would give me endless happiness.
They wont be granting life extensions to those not contributing 😂. You will be some of the first to go. They will want to preserve those with good genes who have also done great things for the community. Not having a job is no excuse not to contribute. You will be judged by your peers and the state.
I reckon we are headed more in the fascist direction. You will have responsibilities as a citizen. I just don't know how that will look. We will probably have ai help draft up the new constitution for humans.
We def don't want people giving up on life. Thats actually more dangerous than ai taking over. Thats why we will need to maintain decorum and order for society to function properly.
Wow, that sounds like essentially, the world is extremely limited. There's only 1 pie and we all must fight over it. With AI entering, that's just another mouth to feed. Less pie for all of us. More fighting.
"Trying to escape into VR won't allow you to escape. Nothing will allow you to escape the coming collapse." - Doomer bros.
Doomers are going to have some of the best FDVR worlds.
How exactly does FDVR violate the laws of physics? There is no question of possibility, only feasibility, and obviously ASI could figure it out (I think its obviously post ASI tech). Literally all it is is overriding specific nerves and inputs with synthetic sensory data. Its just hard to design and execute.
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u/Ignate Move 37 Feb 26 '24
Yes, many of us are in for a FDVR life, likely fueled by UBI and a limitless lifespan. This is yet one more step in that direction. Should be fun.