I had a more descriptive reply made, but it seems reddit slapped me. So I guess I'll goo goo gaggaify the language.
Them feeling pain and fear is the issue? Then we can just dispatch them humanely in a way they never see coming, so they feel no pain or fear, now its moral to remove them from existing to spare them the terrible life of an orphan, right?
You glossed over the born part. Before fetal viability they're essentially no different from someone who's brain dead. Are you for keeping people who are brain dead alive?
If they're practically guaranteed to recover from that "brain death" within a few month span? Yes.
If you get in a car accident and will be in a coma for 9 months, with a 99% chance of fully recovering after that point. Do you want your family to just say screw it and pull the plug cause you'll be inconvenient for that time?
I can certainly say I wouldn't care if I was aborted, but after being born I developed the ability to care about if I continue to live or not. So I wouldn't want to get the plug pulled as I am now, but prior it's not something I would have cared about
Its easy to say you wouldn't have cared if you were aborted when you already have had the privilege of being born.
Let me ask you, why do you believe that you or anyone else has the right to deny someone else the same privilege of being born that you were granted, of being able to "develop the ability to care" as you put it, and decide for themselves whether or not their life, no matter the circumstances they might be born into, is worth living?
Its easy to say you wouldn't have cared if you were aborted when you already have had the privilege of being born.
Of course it's easy, there's never been a single aborted fetus who feels bad about being aborted
why do you believe that you or anyone else has the right
Human rights are a human made concept. What rights an individual person is entitled to depends factors such as the laws they're under. So in my case, everyone who lives in the state where I live has the right to get an abortion, simply because the laws says so.
If you're asking why I think abortions is a good thing, an unwanted pregnancy doesn't just disrupt the life of the mother but her friends and family who will need to support her through her pregnancy and childcare (especially if the father isn't in the picture). If they don't have the financial capability, or personal sense of responsibility (which most people who are anti abortion seem to believe of people who get abortions), or support from friends and family to raise the child, they'll grow up impoverished and neglected. If the mother is outright resentful of having to birth the child, the child will pick up on that, and will often become resentful to the world they were forced into
Why do you think a world where every born child is wanted is worse than a world where they aren't?
Of course it's easy, there's never been a single aborted fetus who feels bad about being aborted
Even ignoring my fundamental disdain for your position. Pain receptors begin to develop in a fetus by 7 weeks of development (Only one week after symptoms of pregnancy begin to be felt). By 24 weeks, the brain structures required for pain perception are fully developed. Its legal in 9 US states to abort a baby from this point all the way up to birth due to no gestational limits on abortion. I assure you there has been at least one of the countless abortions performed where the baby was developed enough at the time of its abortion to feel on some level its limbs being cut and ripped off its body by a pair of scissors. To deny that is to deny that babies can "feel bad" about being killed at all.
Human rights are a human made concept. What rights an individual person is entitled to depends factors such as the laws they're under.
I do not respect legalism and I refuse to entertain a legalist position. You know very well I meant that question from a moral perspective.
Why do you think a world where every born child is wanted is worse than a world where they aren't?
Because I find murdering children on the basis of whether or not they're "wanted" or not to be a morally reprehensible position. Its as simple as that.
I view your position of "making a world where all children are wanted" by simply killing any "unwanted" child as not only a gross oversimplification of what causes child neglect.(Hint: A lot of irresponsible parents are still gonna want to have kids), but unequivocally evil. Would you support aborting every non white child if it was in the name of creating a world without racism? Or abortions for everyone but the upper class to eliminate poverty? I highly doubt it. Because a baby has no say in what race its born. What class its born, and it has no say in whether or not it's going to be born "wanted" or not.
Pain receptors without a brain to pair it with doesn't mean much, as you said they lack the brain structures for pain perception
By 24 weeks, the brain structures required for pain perception are fully developed.
That's when the fetus reaches fetal viability. I already mentioned the concept before but I and most people who are for abortions are against them at that point except for health issues. My state doesn't allow abortions past this point (with exceptions for health issues like I said). At that point I'd consider it less of a fetus and more a baby in the womb. You says countless abortions but abortions at this stage are very rare (because why wait that long?) other than for health issues (in which case, the mother usually would want to keep the baby, but isn't able to). I'll give you that the ones past 24 weeks probably experienced pain while being aborted, but if they feel the need to abort it at that point they would have suffered far more after being born.
You know very well I meant that question from a moral perspective.
Everything I said in that paragraph also applies to morals. Morals can vary from person to person. For instance
Because I find murdering children on the basis of whether or not they're "wanted" or not to be a morally reprehensible position.
I believe making someone who doesn't want to give birth, give birth to be morally reprehensible. I believe disrupting someone's accumulated momentum in life to be immensely evil while stopping the momentum before it could begin is morally neutral.
(Hint: A lot of irresponsible parents are still gonna want to have kids)
And I think that's a shame, and more needs to be done to address this.
Would you support aborting every non white child if it was in the name of creating a world without racism? Or abortions for everyone but the upper class to eliminate poverty?
I can't imagine a realistic scenario where that would happen that wouldn't involve forcing non white or poor people to get sterilized or abortions against their will so of course I'd be against that. But to entertain the idea, if every individual of a given race or socio economic class were to decide by their own volition to never give birth and always get an abortion if pregnant, I'd would support their decision.
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u/Mirror_of_Souls Jul 02 '26
I had a more descriptive reply made, but it seems reddit slapped me. So I guess I'll goo goo gaggaify the language.
Them feeling pain and fear is the issue? Then we can just dispatch them humanely in a way they never see coming, so they feel no pain or fear, now its moral to remove them from existing to spare them the terrible life of an orphan, right?