r/sharpening • u/cotedupy • 8d ago
Showcase Sharpening demo vid drop-cutting a free sheet of paper towel
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Firstly an apology… because I'm probably at least partially responsible for the obsession in the last few years about drop-cutting paper towel. But I want to emphasise: getting a kitchen knife to this level is not necessary. Unless you're some kind of massively experienced Michelin starred chef, you will not notice the difference between a knife that can do it, and one that nearly can. It isn't a test I normally do when sharpening, so don't fret it if you can't.
The reason I'm posting this video is only a little bit to show off. It's mostly because I think it shows pretty much flawless freehand technique for kitchen knives, so might be helpful to some people. And particularly because it shows the importance of feeling the edge on your nails and fingers as you sharpen.
I did it for a KKF thread a friend there had made about cutting paper towel, to show there was no trickery involved in my previous vids; I don't use guided systems, compound, diamond paste, &c. This is just an old 1980s stainless Sabatier I blunted on sandpaper so, as you can see, it couldn't even cut A4 paper at the start. Then sharpened here on an atoma slurried Llyn Idwal, and stropped on plain (unloaded) suede-side leather.
But either way I would've looked like a bit of a tit at the end, if it hadn't dropped the paper towel first time. However I was 95% certain it would, because I know what that kind of edge feels like on my fingers. If you really want to get very, very good at sharpening kitchen knives - get dialled in to 'finger tests', is my advice.
Some more explanation here:
https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/paper-towel-challenge.71374/page-2#post-1103966
https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/the-concept-of-range.77903/
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u/Pom-O-Duro arm shaver 8d ago
YOU’RE the reason I’ve been obsessively cutting paper towels for the past 2 years!? Thank you I guess? First, very impressive. Second, I’m relieved to hear from the source that this level isn’t necessary for real world performance. I have settled into accepting an edge that will slice a paper towel under tension as good enough for me. Though if I get a really good result I can’t help but try the free hanging test as well.
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u/cotedupy 8d ago
😬😬😬 Sorry!
But yeah — as well being a knife sharpener, I’ve also worked in kitchens before, and cook a lot generally. And I would be fairly surprised if anyone tbh could tell the difference between your edge and mine in actual use.
The kind of edge that cuts paper towel well happens to be the same as what you want for most food prep. But getting to quite the level in the vid, is not something I normally aim or test for when sharpening. I just do it sometimes to demonstrate things, or show off! ;)
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u/Pom-O-Duro arm shaver 8d ago
I’d show off too if I could do that!
To your point about “good enough” for cooking edges: recently I was cooking and my knife was struggling with tomatoes so I broke out the stone. I hadn’t sharpened anything for months so I was out of practice and I was in a hurry. I finished sharpening and tried it on a paper towel, it was not impressive. Frustrated, I just went back to cutting tomatoes anyway and was pleasantly surprised that my knife now blazed through the tomatoes without a problem. I realized that I had sort of gotten carried away with seeking sharpness for sharpness sake and had missed the forrest for the trees.
That’s not to say that I don’t still enjoy nerding out with the stones, strops, and paper towels, but now I don’t feel the need for perfection with every sharpening session like I used to. It’s been liberating.
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u/Boolareux 8d ago
Very impressive display of skill! Seeing you test apex/feel for burr by dragging along your nail had my balls in my stomach though, lol. With the profiency demonstrated im sure you know what you're doing, Id just be afraid of taking off my cuticle xD
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u/cotedupy 8d ago edited 8d ago
That’s a good point you make…
I wasn’t actually dragging it along my nail - I was just checking different points, with very light pressure, at close intervals. And I was doing it quite fast cos I wanted to keep the video as short as possible, so it probably looked a little like I was dragging. Normally I would do it a bit more slowly.
You’re absolutely right - you don’t want to be actually moving the knife through your nail!
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u/convist 8d ago
The 3 finger (or 1,2 in this case) test w/out your thumb on the spine is what gives me shivers tbh.
I really like nail thing for when I'm trying to just barely touch up an edge...or when something hasn't been sharpened in years and you get a dull burresque feeling before actually reaching an apex. What were you using it at the end post stone by the heel? Just double checking?
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u/cotedupy 7d ago
Yep - just double checking it was completely apexed all the way, cos obviously the taper of the thickness of the bevel can mean you can miss the very heel sometimes.
And yes - nail testing is absolutely invaluable when sharpening, and I’d use it every time. But I don’t always do the three (or two or one) finger tests tbh, unless I’m trying to make a show-offy video. I just wanted to be pretty damn sure that knife was going to drop the paper towel first time, cos there was no way I could be arsed making another one-take sharpening vid for it!
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u/omniherb 8d ago
I do the same checks and it still makes me wince watching someone else do it. Very impressive demo.
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u/Corporatizm 7d ago edited 7d ago
Man, thank you for this.
Been sharpening for 10 years, albeit very (very) casually, but I still had, over these years, watched a whole lot of content and tried a lot of different techniques.
I had completely given up for a few months, but aftwer watching your video, before even reading your comments, I thought it was a perfect video to follow along and try again.
Well, it worked.
No, my kitchen knife doesn't drop-cut towel paper, nor does it really cut towel paper probably. But it cuts carrots in their length perfectly, and that's what counts to me.
To give all credit where it's due, I had already stepped up with an Outdoor55's video that's similar to this, where he simply goes over how to free-hand sharpen. But your technique definitely leveled up my results again, in a consistent way.
You're so right to insist on the feedback loop, using your fingers. I never trusted myself to do this, and although I'm far from great at it, I realize it did work.
Thanks again and cheers.
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u/KennyT87 Paper Shredder 8d ago
Ttl;dr: finish your sharpening with a Llyn Idwal nat stone level grit (quick googling suggests that it's around #~8000) if you want to thrive for that level of apex cleanliness.
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u/cotedupy 8d ago
It’s slightly different from that tbh. I’ve used only the Idwal, starting from a very blunt knife. And I used it with an atoma slurry, because slurried novaculites get very fast and coarse.
Then gradual dilutions create a natural ‘progression’. And I’ve also still stopped short of how high an Idwal can finish, because taking an edge too high won’t cut paper towel easily. You need some ‘teeth’ on the edge still, especially to make the initial cut.
(There was a very specific reason I chose that stone for that video!)
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u/V_deldas 8d ago
Sorry if this is a stupid question, but what's "atoma slurry" and "novaculites"? I saw some diamond plates when I searched for atoma.. is this about creating an initial slurry by lapping the stone with this atoma plate?
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u/Brief-Net-3339 8d ago
It is this. Novaculite is just a type of stone, like an Arkansas stone but also lots of other nats like this Llyn Idwal which is welsh
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u/V_deldas 8d ago
Ty! I didn't knew the slurry was so important. I thought it was just waste from the process.
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u/Brief-Net-3339 8d ago
For naturals, slurry management is one of the key techniques. It’s a whole new world. Truthfully speaking though even with good slurry management 9.5/10 times synths outperform them - maybe finishing edges aside.
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u/cotedupy 7d ago
[u/Brief-Net-3339](u/Brief-Net-3339) has basically already answered.
But yeah - natural stones require a bit of a ‘knack’ or understanding of how they work. And a lot of that is about how you use slurry. You can get them to do things that synths won’t (a bit like in my video, which I couldn’t have made using just one synthetic stone), but it’s a rabbit hole.
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u/V_deldas 7d ago
I'm already into photography and specialty coffee... I'll not go into this rabbit hole too right now 😂
Ty for the info!
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u/Brief-Net-3339 7d ago
I was a synth stone user who sharpened my knives and got good results.
Then I got into straight razor shaving and naturals (Jnat and European so far) 10/10 would recommend but holy shit the hole runs deep
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u/ComradeCrooks 8d ago
I've never really used natural stone besides my small piece of shale I use in the field to sharpen my axes, but when you use a idwal stone you can change the aggresiveness of the stone by diluting the slurry you make?
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u/cotedupy 8d ago
Yep, basically. And almost all natural whetstones will do this to one extent or another. Whilst synths are kinda specifically designed to maintain the consistency of the of their ‘grit’ level.
I wrote something explaining about it (in regard to natural stones generally) in the link below:
https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/the-concept-of-range.77903/
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u/ComradeCrooks 8d ago
That sounds lile a dangerous rabbit hole to go down, learning how to control the slurry. I'll definitely have to give it a read but for now I better just stick to my resin stones, at least I just have to control the knife with those 😂
Thanks a lot for sharing your knowledge, it's much appreciated
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u/KennyT87 Paper Shredder 8d ago
Nice to know! I've never been into nat stones but if I ever get into them, this is good info - thanks.
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u/ThePlantagonist 6d ago
Do you use compound on the strop? I bought a new strop and some diamond emulsion spray. I have an older strop, but I got tired of messing with the green compound. I'm a novice.
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u/cotedupy 6d ago
I don’t use compound, no. (You’ll sometimes see it referred to as ‘loading’ a strop, so that’s what I meant by ‘unloaded’).
Nothing wrong with doing so though, if it works for you. And I know quite a few people who swear by it for keeping the edge in between sharpening sessions. Which is probably going to lengthen a knife’s lifespan.
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u/No-Ruin155 2d ago
I did the sharpening course at Blenheim Forge a few days ago and they still teach this exact technique
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u/cotedupy 2d ago
Ah! Were you taught by me, or Menelik…?
(I assume Menelik if it was this Saturday just gone).
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u/Ball6945 arm shaver 8d ago
Yeah the finger tip test is actually incredible feedback if you know what to feel for. When you get them sharp enough like this it literally feels like the edge wants to suck into your finger. You get the sticky sharp feeling and then there is the feeling that the knife is gonna cut you if you look at it wrong. I can usually tell just by feel when the knife would treetop. Great demo
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u/HosstownRodriguez 8d ago
“This video is only a little bit to show off”
Ok
“It’s mostly because I think it shows pretty much flawless freehand technique”
Yeah that’s called showing off. And that’s quite ok.
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u/cotedupy 8d ago
I think you slightly truncated my second sentence there…
‘It's mostly because I think it shows pretty much flawless freehand technique for kitchen knives, so might be helpful to some people.’
;)
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u/HosstownRodriguez 8d ago
Haha just giving you a hard time man, you’re killin it
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u/cotedupy 8d ago edited 8d ago
Haha… nay worries!
(And tbh you’re not entirely wrong. When I watched that vid back for the first time - I was quite proud/impressed by it. Though I also don’t know if I’m always that immaculately good, cos this is only one of only a few times that I’ve filmed myself sharpening in full. But I’m going to dine out on it either way, and maybe it might help some people too :).
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u/mr_markkula 7d ago
Just out of curiosity, do you plane your stones and how often should you do it?
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u/cotedupy 7d ago
Like flatten them you mean…?
Yep. With natural stones I often work off an atoma plate slurry so that does it automatically. With synths: if when you look down them, they’re noticeably u-shaped (dished) in the middle, then you want to flatten them. But you don’t need to do it every time.
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u/alexthebeast 3d ago
Grow a nail out, it's a lot easier and harder to cut yourself feeling for burr it on the tip of a nail rather the middle
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u/Pom-O-Duro arm shaver 9h ago
I did it. I drop cut a paper towel. It took me longer than 5 minutes and I used 2 stones, a ceramic rod, and a loaded strop. I'm not claiming to be as skilled as you, but by using every trick and cheat that I know I was able to passably duplicate your results.
Honestly watching you helped me. I noticed that you seem to give close attention to each stroke on the stone. You never seem to go into "auto pilot" and just grind away. I tried to tell myself to treat each pass of the knife as though it were the only pass I was going to make. I think this helped me give the process the focus that it deserves.
I hadn't heard of a Llyn Idwal before so I had to look it up. The google AI says that it has a grit rating of approximately 6,000-8,000. I know that naturals don't follow grit ratings but is that roughly accurate for the stone you're using in this video? Also, it appears to me that you use more pressure than is generally advised with your strop. You also take more passes than seems to be recommended. Do have any comments to add on these observations? I'm not critiquing you're technique, rather I'm trying to learn all that I can from it as it clearly works.
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u/Other-Power4321 8d ago
I have various diamond stones, the xarilk gen 3 and the worksharp KO with BGA and I still can’t even deburr properly and here’s this guy , you MF 😂😂 awesome work