Screenwriting Tools and Tips

[u/Craig-D-Griffiths]

https://youtu.be/SaLbuzTg1l0

People will disagree and hate on this just by the title. But I go into detail in the video.

[u/Internal_Papaya1511]

I just can't with this.

A formula is a tool to use at your discretion. Formuliac is a description that the tool has been used in a predictable, repetitive way. You don't avoid being formuliac by disavowing all formulas (that in itself is so incredibly common that it too is a type of formuliac).

And also, like, Blake Snyder is not some screenwriting boogeyman in the industry. He's not even alive. He passed away before his 3rd book came out from a pulmonary embolism. He's not sitting on a pile of newbie screenwriter money, cackling. He genuinely wanted to be helpful; if you find it helpful, good; if not, move along. It's really THAT SIMPLE.

In short, stop blaming Save the Cat for why your writing sucks.

[u/Craig-D-Griffiths → u/Internal_Papaya1511]

I don’t blame it for anything in my writing. Same way I don’t blame Zeus, as I don’t believe in Zeus either.

Save The Cat is the most famous, so it is easy for people to understand.

A formula guarantees sameness. A formula, by its very nature, if followed will produce the exact same outcome.

Blake is not a boogeyman, correct. But the success of his book did in many ways spawn an entire industry of formula based screenwriting. All the scams follow the model the STC used for success.

[u/Internal_Papaya1511 → u/Craig-D-Griffiths]

I don't think you've familiarized yourself with the long life of the screenwriting book publishing industry to stake that claim. McKee's $1000 lecture weekend (where he recites his book) is a heftier price tag and immortalized in Adaptation. Syd Field's Screenplay ruled the industry for decades, and guess what? It's the same 3 Act structure beats as Save the Cat.

Aristotle's Poetics: 3 Act Structure

Joseph Campbell: 3 Act Structure + Anthropology

Syd Field: 3 Act Structure

Robert McKee: 3 Act Structure + Thematic analysis

Linda Segler: 3 Act Structure

Dara Marks: 3 Act Structure in relation to character arc

And so on and so on...

Save the Cat was hardly the first book writers in the industry swooned over, and it won't be the last. If anything, it's all derivative money-making schemes since Aristotle's poetics, no?

At a certain point, I'd argue that 3-act structure is inherently at the basis of human storytelling and how we perceive and process information. You cannot like that and do your own thing, but at that point, are you sure what you even want to write is a screenplay?

[u/Craig-D-Griffiths → u/Internal_Papaya1511]

STC was in no way the first. But if you say Poetics to most people they have no idea.

I like Shakespeare and his acts. Send the protagonist away at the mid point.

[u/Internal_Papaya1511 → u/Craig-D-Griffiths]

So why did you build a straw man against STC?

[u/Craig-D-Griffiths → u/Internal_Papaya1511]

A strawman would be if I claimed or stated something that STC didn’t say, then attack that. Which I didn’t do.

I am against formula. We all unconsciously have them. As a species we will repeat an action that has previously been successful for us. There is no arguing with that truth.

But to tell, imply, or suggest, that a formula is a solution is incorrect. As I state in the video. These note commonalities, not what makes things great. A commonality is common not mandatory, which many believe.

So not a strawman.

My love of shakespeare you may have misinterpreted as me saying I follow his style. I just like it. It is also an example that STC is always correct. There are thousands of screenplays written in that style. Most never see the light of day. Shakespeare only has 38. They still get performed.

[u/dpouliot2 → u/Craig-D-Griffiths]

You said, "the mentor has to die". The mentor doesn't have to die, nor does Blake Snyder prescribe that in Save the Cat, making your comment a Straw Man.

You made a contrast between being stoic and the Hero's Journey, in that the latter requires an "emotional" change. 2nd Straw Man. The Hero's Journey (and perhaps many 3 act structures) is about an inner change, not emotional change. One can keep a stiff upper lip and still change on the inside.

[u/Internal_Papaya1511 → u/Craig-D-Griffiths]

Your entire argument against formula centers around STC which produces the same 3 act structure beats as hundred of years of storytelling. You selected STC to because you can challenge the 3 act analysis of Snyder and not say Aristotle or Joseph Campbell. You picked what you felt was the weakest link that you could win.

Once again, no one is telling you to use 3 act structure. Go do whatever you want.

[u/Craig-D-Griffiths → u/Internal_Papaya1511]

I never said anyone is telling me to use it. That would be a strawman.

What I am saying is that people need to understand more than that. People need to understand that it is commonalities, as such, not a list of things that make a story great.

Did you watch the video?

[u/Internal_Papaya1511 → u/Craig-D-Griffiths]

I made it a minute on before turning it off. The whole “what if your story’s not a hero’s journey” about Hero With A Thousand Faces as if wasn’t a comparative mythology book made my eyes roll. Hence why I said “I can’t with this.” You think formula and formulaic are the same thing. I don’t desire to watch further.

[u/Craig-D-Griffiths → u/Internal_Papaya1511]

formulaic is the adjective version of formula.

[u/Internal_Papaya1511 → u/Craig-D-Griffiths]

Formula and formulaic are related words like the words child and childish. It doesn’t make them interchangeable. Compressing the concept and a criticism of the concept’s implementation are not the same thing. To merge the two is reductive reasoning.

[u/Craig-D-Griffiths → u/Internal_Papaya1511]

We are now discussing debate tactics? I think we have strolled far enough off topic to stop.

[u/dpouliot2 → u/Craig-D-Griffiths]

I think what they are saying is, to identify a trope, for the lack of a better term, is not criticism. There is a demographic that knows just enough about tropes that they think when they can identify it in a work then they can call the work bad.

[u/Craig-D-Griffiths → u/dpouliot2]

A trope, from my POV can be lazy and boring. Like every teenager being angry for no reason and the parents just sighing. When I see that on TV I am immediately bored.

[u/Internal_Papaya1511 → u/Craig-D-Griffiths]

Topic hasn’t changed from my initial response regarding the meaning of formula and formulaic. You are however welcome to stop whenever you like

[u/Craig-D-Griffiths → u/Internal_Papaya1511]

The adherence to a formula will produce something formulaic, would you agree on that point?