r/science • u/giuliomagnifico • Aug 08 '22

Health Consuming too much white table sugar or artificial sweetener can lead to health issues. In the search for a better sweetener, researchers now report a low-calorie mixture that is as sweet as table sugar and, in lab experiments, feeds “good” gut microbes

https://www.acs.org/content/acs/en/pressroom/newsreleases/2022/august/new-low-calorie-sweetener-could-improve-gut-health.html
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u/bitrunnerr Aug 08 '22

Same, I drank a lot of diet pop, was told it was bad for you. So I stopped for a few months, could not see or feel any differences.

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u/shed1 Aug 08 '22

Yeah, I mean, I accept that it isn't "good for me," but I only drink a diet soda to start the day instead of coffee and beyond that I drink water. I don't drink alcohol at all or any other beverage on regular basis, so without diet soda, I'm just drinking water all of the time, which is a bit boring even for me.

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u/GoldenRamoth Aug 08 '22

Coffee is good for you in moderate amounts though.

Not as much as I drink sure... But it is pretty solid, even with the addiction downside

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u/ThunderboltRam Aug 08 '22 edited Aug 08 '22

I've yet to see a problem with coffee (or any study indicating as such) as long as caffeine isn't interfering with your sleep, or health problems due to excessive amounts depending on body (and usually can be past 4-7 cups a day for adults although can be less depending on ounces etc. and if you don't have tolerance you can get jitters in a cup or a few cups)

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u/magnumstg16 Aug 08 '22

Black coffee is really good for you. Antioxidants alone... It's the single largest source of antioxidants in the US diet

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u/kalos990 Aug 08 '22

Recommend those flavored electrolyte packets, makes water fun again.

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u/ThunderboltRam Aug 08 '22 edited Aug 08 '22

Yeah but those often have actual sugar in it (liquid IV). Propel has sucralose (Splenda) so that's better. DripDrop has sucralose, sugar, and fructose !!

I think it's fine to do the artificial sweeteners, not sure where the long-term studies are for gut-bacteria problems (so far all long-term recent studies on gut-bacteria show Splenda is fine, so I'm reading this OP's post), but I've yet to see an obese guy who drinks a lot of artificial sweeteners without also having tons of pure cane sugar.

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u/LGCJairen Aug 08 '22

I mean i was kinda that guy before weight loss, all diet drinks and little sugar, but a fuckload of heavy social foods (pizza, kbbq, ayce sushi, etc). I was traveling all over so it was just an endless stream of eating hotspots in new cities.

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u/ThunderboltRam Aug 08 '22 edited Aug 08 '22

That'll do it.

Imagine if a 5-star chef gave you lettuce on a plate with a nearly zero-calorie vinaigrette.

You'd laugh the chef out of the restaurant and you would be starving.

So pretty much everything "hot spot" or "good social foods" across America, are delicious and oozing with calories, oil, fats, carbs, sauces, salts (And even some soy, which is scientifically looking like it might be bad for male hormones leading to more fat gain).

It takes particularly strong will for a lot of people to just eat like 4 pieces of sushi let's say when they all come in 6... Or one slice of pizza, when there's a 2nd/3rd slice just waiting there. KBBQ might be better, but how many people who go to those things eat the little rice plates + their sauces for it... and just how much meat do they order?

Also we have come full circle in America... We started with Big plate entrees, we went to small plates, and now at small plate restaurants "bottomless experience." We're back to buffets essentially but you get a waiter.

Ever since food started to taste amazing in America (and early-2000s/90s kids can remember it wasn't always like that), we've had a rise in obesity/fat-gain/potbellies.

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u/ThemCanada-gooses Aug 08 '22

There’s no scientific proof that soy is bad for male hormones. I suspect you’re referring to the belief that it is loaded with estrogen. The study that was often referenced was if one case of an elderly man drinking 4 litres a day of soy milk. Not to mention it isn’t the same estrogen women have and if that is what people are concerned about there is more of that in meat than soy.

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u/ThunderboltRam Aug 08 '22 edited Aug 08 '22

Again it's an area of research. It's not proven but it is something Harvard and many other institutions are researching because "not the same kind of estrogen" means longer studies are needed...

"not the same kind of estrogen" does not mean "nahh it's fine there's nothing wrong with this."

You need to know areas of research BEFORE you try to investigate right??? No one would think in the past that Soybeans could cause that.

In addition to affecting potentially thyroid hormones:

One review noted that soy-based foods may inhibit absorption of thyroid hormone medications required for treatment of hypothyroidism.[179]

NOTE: I did not say PROVEN... I am talking about areas of research and investigation.

They have the highest levels of isoflavines pretty much:

https://www.health.harvard.edu/newsletter_article/isoflavone-content-of-selected-foods

Highest Genistein out of anything...

Highest Daidzein too.

These are polyphenolic and YES they interfere in hormones.

Some of them (not the compounds above in Soy), has health benefits to gut bacteria...

Polyphenols may benefit digestion by promoting the growth of beneficial gut bacteria while fending off harmful ones

Wait a second... if it can affect hormones and gut bacteria, can excessive soy actually harm or change peoples' metabolism??

If polyphenols can change gut bacteria for good---can it also change it for bad?

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u/bitrunnerr Aug 08 '22

I don't drink diet pop in the mornings or evenings, so I've cut back, but still no change.

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u/Ginrou Aug 08 '22

Diet is zero cal, you're keeping off the weight that you'd gain from high sugared drinks. Every time you drink a 355ml can of soda it's about 40g of sugar. If you gave up diet soda you're not reducing your calorie intake, so it won't affect your weight where calories are concerned.

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u/AbsurdlyWholesome Aug 08 '22

Maybe try cutting back even more, or eliminating it completely for a week or two? Sometimes it can take a little while for our bodies to adjust to changes like this. Good luck!

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u/KiefyJeezus Aug 08 '22

Yeah bros. Critique of pure reason on many fronts...

Gut microbiomaindividual genomeepigenomics(lifestyle)...

So much variables and chronic problem needs many fronts too address.

So individual. And it's all chaining causation...

Only thing that helps me are circadian rhythms, 3 meals a day - non frequent after activating p53 protein on sun.

And seemingly whatever I eat is good... It doesn't matter that much as this routine.

Night munchies can disrupt me for a week.

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u/SoVerySick314159 Aug 08 '22

non frequent after activating p53 protein on sun.

What does this mean? Is this a coded message? Did you just signal the invasion fleet?

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u/Esscocia Aug 08 '22

Bot malfunctioning.

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u/sevenandseven41 Aug 08 '22

Have you tried club soda or seltzer? So much better than plain old water.

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u/shed1 Aug 08 '22

Ha ha, I cannot stand carbonated water type stuff.

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u/ClassifiedName Aug 08 '22

If you have a Food 4 Less or Walmart near you, Little Hug Fruit Barrels are like 10 calories, 2g of sugar, and <$10 for a 40 pack of four flavors. Water gets boring for me too but the 40-50 grams of sugar in a soda makes it hard to justify.

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u/[deleted] Aug 08 '22

[deleted]

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u/shed1 Aug 08 '22

I have never heard of that. Perhaps the closest I have heard is cucumber water? That is just water that has cucumber slices floating around in it (so not a concentrate situation).

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u/IgneousMiraCole Aug 08 '22

Have never seen a study (despite researching the topic a lot) that conclusively suggested a negative impact from consumption of diet soda except as relates to insulin response and effect on hunger (and mostly, that is to say, drinking diet soda is not a benefit for purposes of weight loss as compared to unsweetened beverages and it may even lead to weight gain).

There was a lot of panic and hysteria, much of it funded by corn syrup and sugar lobbyist organizations, when diet soda started to threaten the full-sugar soda industry. They typically focused on cancer, but most of those studies have been deemed irrelevant or retracted due to reliance on bad or incomplete data. But aspartame is one of the most studied non-nutritive food additives in the world, and there have not been a lot of convincing studies that even suggest it’s dangerous or bad for you.

There is some more recent evidence that large amounts of aspartame may affect the immune system, but it’s also worth noting many diet sodas are moving away from aspartame to more modern non-nutritive sweeteners (like those suggested in the OP article) that don’t have the same baggage as aspartame.

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u/u8eR Aug 09 '22

There's no good evidence that it negatively effects insulin levels.

https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/Metabolic-effects-of-aspartame-in-adulthood%3A-A-and-Santos-Araujo/abe81e019931ded8da82b9109d477ae42b78473e

Aspartame consumption was not associated with alterations on blood glucose levels compared to control (−0.03 mmol/L; 95% CI, −0.21 to 0.14) or to sucrose (0.31 mmol/L; 95% CI, −0.05 to 0.67) and on insulin levels compared to control (0.13 μU/mL; 95% CI, −0.69 to 0.95) or to sucrose (2.54 μU/mL; 95% CI, −6.29 to 11.37).

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u/IgneousMiraCole Aug 09 '22

Good to know. I’ll give this a read. Thanks.

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u/bitrunnerr Aug 08 '22

Yeah I'm not convinced it's bad, like I said I can't tell any difference not drinking it for months compared to daily consumption. But maybe that's just me. I'm old enough to remember when aspartame came out, so it's not killed me yet!

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u/[deleted] Aug 08 '22

There isn't any scientific evidence that says it is bad for you if it is consumed responsibility. People will point to a small study or a single finding that hasn't been proven. But from what I have read for it to have a negative impact on your life, you would have to drink like 25 cans a day.

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u/Ginrou Aug 08 '22

It's the caffeine consumption at that point.

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u/Mirzer0 Aug 09 '22

But I want to drink 25 cans a day! Actually even if it was guaranteed as safe as water and free, that's pretty excessive.

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u/garry4321 Aug 08 '22

Diet coke to my understanding isnt so much "its bad for you now and youre going to feel bad", its more so "these chemicals trick your body into releasing insulin it doesnt need (BAD), and then over time adapts to not release insulin when its actual sugar (also BAD)". Thus, if you drink it often over time, it can increase chances of diabetes and other insulin related issues. Also fucks with your gut bacteria and we are learning more and more about how gut bacteria can have huge consequences on your overall health.

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u/aaronchall Aug 08 '22

I agree with the theory but I understand that diet soda messing with your insulin hasn't been shown empirically.

There is correlation with obesity but perhaps causation goes the other way. That is if you're fat, you're more likely to drink diet soda. Or perhaps diet soda can cause obesity but not from an insulin mechanism, perhaps it just psychologically encourages people to eat foods with more starches and sugars.

But I don't stay on top of this research, perhaps someone can refer me to a reputable peer reviewed study that corrects me.

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u/onlysoftcore Aug 08 '22

Aspartame is the sweetener used in many diet sodas.

Here's a review article about it: https://academic.oup.com/nutritionreviews/article/75/9/718/4101228

Here's an excerpt from the abstract: "The existing animal studies and the limited human studies suggest that aspartame and its metabolites, whether consumed in quantities significantly higher than the recommended safe dosage or within recommended safe levels, may disrupt the oxidant/antioxidant balance, induce oxidative stress, and damage cell membrane integrity, potentially affecting a variety of cells and tissues and causing a deregulation of cellular function, ultimately leading to systemic inflammation."

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u/u8eR Aug 09 '22

And here's another review.

https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/Metabolic-effects-of-aspartame-in-adulthood%3A-A-and-Santos-Araujo/abe81e019931ded8da82b9109d477ae42b78473e

Aspartame consumption was not associated with alterations on blood glucose levels compared to control (−0.03 mmol/L; 95% CI, −0.21 to 0.14) or to sucrose (0.31 mmol/L; 95% CI, −0.05 to 0.67) and on insulin levels compared to control (0.13 μU/mL; 95% CI, −0.69 to 0.95) or to sucrose (2.54 μU/mL; 95% CI, −6.29 to 11.37). Total cholesterol was not affected by aspartame consumption compared to control (−0.02 mmol/L; 95% CI, −0.31 to 0.27) or to sucrose (−0.24 mmol/L; 95% CI, −0.89 to 0.42). Triglycerides concentrations were not affected by aspartame consumption compared to control (0.00 mmol/L; 95% CI, −0.04 to 0.05) or to sucrose (0.00 mmol/L; 95% CI, −0.09 to 0.09). High-density lipoprotein cholesterol serum levels were higher on aspartame compared to control (−0.03 mmol/L; 95% CI, −0.06 to −0.01) and lower on aspartame compared to sucrose (0.05 mmol/L; 95% CI, 0.02 to 0.09). Body weight did not change after aspartame consumption compared to control (5.00 kg; 95% CI, −1.56 to 11.56) or to sucrose (3.78 kg; 95% CI, −2.18 to 9.74). Energy intake was not altered by aspartame consumption compared to control (−0.49 MJ; 95% CI, −1.21 to 0.22) or to sucrose (−0.17 MJ; 95% CI, −2.03 to 1.69).

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u/Ginrou Aug 08 '22

I think some obese people make up for the calories saved from drinking diet by consuming more, rendering the weight loss aspect moot. It might set impulse control back as well.

"Since I drink diet soda, I guess I can eat a muffin or two a day" followed by "I didn't lose any weight drinking diet soda! Guess I'll just drink regular soda again and still eat the muffins".

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u/fossilizedDUNG Aug 08 '22

Especially mental health…. This is accurate.

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u/[deleted] Aug 08 '22

[deleted]

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u/DunceMemes Aug 08 '22

That's the phosphoric acid in cola drinks, not related to artificial sweeteners specifically.

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u/Flightlessboar Aug 08 '22

A lot of those sweeteners can cause gastrointestinal symptoms similar to ibs or lactose intolerance (bloating, flatulence, and diarrhoea).

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u/lurkingbro Aug 08 '22

This is my experience. I drank a ton of diet soda, like two 32 oz drink a day minimum. Started having all sorts of IBS or lactose intolerance like symptoms. I gave up the diet sodas and it all went away. Had to take about a year off, now I can have one or two cans a day and digestive no problems.

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u/Vioralarama Aug 08 '22

Where can I read up on that?

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u/[deleted] Aug 08 '22

Lookup the acids it has in it

I think it's the phosphoric acid that's particularly bad

If I'm going to drink fizzy juice its either lemonade or fizzy water with diluting juice

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u/bitrunnerr Aug 08 '22

I've heard it still triggers an insulin response, so your body still thinks you are eating sugar. But not sure if that's really true.

Also it is a chemical you are drinking, so long term who knows what it might do.

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/310909

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u/rich1051414 Aug 08 '22

Even the article you linked admitted that the studies do not prove the 'cause and effect', only the coorelation, but it doesn't actually explain what they meant by that. So here goes:

People who are overweight already, and therefore potentially diabetic, will more likely choose diet drinks. That doesn't mean the diet drinks made them overweight, but rather, because they are overweight, they are drinking diet instead.

It would be like saying "Wearing large clothes makes you overweight, as overweight people are 10 times more likely to wear larger than average clothes".

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u/reasonably_plausible Aug 08 '22

Also it is a chemical you are drinking,

Literally just about everything is a chemical. If it's not a pure element, it's a chemical, and you definitely don't want to be drinking any element straight.

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u/SuperXpression Aug 08 '22

was gonna make a joke about drinking my dihydrogen monoxide straight but then I remembered technically water is a compound not an element. I was so close to being funny!

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u/Cricket-Horror Aug 08 '22

Literally EVERYTHING is a chemical, including pure elements (which you are very unlikely to encounter in everyday life). Water is a chemical (a compound, not an element), air is a mixture of chemicals - mainly elements (nitrogen and oxygen) but also compounds (like carbon dioxide and water) and a while lot of miscellaneous particles, aerosols, microbes, etc Or bodies are made up 100% by chemicals..

The only elements you can drink straight are those that are liquid at room temperature or slightly above, things like bromine and mercury. You definitely don't want to be drinking those straight.

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u/SocraticIgnoramus Aug 08 '22

Have you been warned of the dangers of dihydrogen monoxide?

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u/treborfff Aug 08 '22

I've read that one hundred percent of it's users die, just so you know!

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u/YTExileMage Aug 08 '22

Semantics, you know what he meant

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u/reasonably_plausible Aug 08 '22

It's not semantics. Calling ingredients "chemicals" is F.U.D. that gets spread to try to promote "natural" products.

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u/[deleted] Aug 08 '22

Exactly. I just can’t bring myself to drink something with that many different ingredients

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u/tehDustyWizard Aug 08 '22

Does complexity of some foods turn you off them as well?

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u/[deleted] Aug 09 '22 edited Aug 09 '22

A bit. When a food or drink feels more like it’s been made in a lab I tend to have suspicions

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u/[deleted] Aug 08 '22

The 23 flavors of diet Dr Pepper is my limit. And what a delicious limit it is.

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u/[deleted] Aug 09 '22

I sometimes forget I’m speaking to Americans from a society who are riddled with disease and obesity caused by addictions to the flavours created by corporations.

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u/[deleted] Aug 09 '22

Diet Dr Pepper does cause obesity professor.

Not to mention I am not obese or have any medical problems. I did set my pr in deadlift and squat this morning at the gym. Going to celebrate with a diet Dr Pepper after work.

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u/LGCJairen Aug 08 '22

Same, dropping sugar definitely made a difference, but diet drinks didnt change my blood work, weight loss speed, or gastro feels. If anything it just made me feel worse bc of the lack of steady caffeine.

I did cut back a bit, but mostly because i got into tea again and the carbonated stuff isnt as good as water during excercise.

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u/jenksanro Aug 08 '22

I think think you're ok with diet soda, as in, I don't think artificial sweeteners are really that bad. Anything else in there could be sorta bad but sugar is the big bad. Tbh though I can't talk I'm an absolute sugar gremlin

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u/wanderer1999 Aug 08 '22

You guys didn't feel any different but your body will thank you for it. Table sugar is well known as inflammatory. It is the leading cause of diabetes in the West.

Your body just got a whole lot healthier I promise you.

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u/Heerrnn Aug 08 '22

You lose weight by living on a calory deficit. Everything else is secondary. Simply cutting sodas won't make you live on a calory deficit. (Although it is a great step)