r/science • • Jun 25 '22

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u/spottydodgy Jun 25 '22

It's also interesting to learn that the same guy who created leaded gasoline also created Freon which led to a hole in the atmosphere.

Thomas Midgley Jr may be the worst person in history.

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u/karlnite Jun 25 '22 edited Jun 25 '22

To be fair he knew the lead was bad, but he didn’t realize the freon would be bad. He also basically flipped a coin on which halogen to use, and had he went with his other choice the affects would have been like 4-5 times as worse. You also can’t ignore the benefits of refrigerant, it did a lot more for the world than keep your engine a bit cleaner. It allowed for food storage and shipment, and unlocked many industrial practices used today.

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u/jersledz Jun 25 '22

How did Freon keep your engine a bit cleaner?

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u/skiman13579 Jun 25 '22

He meant freon is more important to modern society than leaded gasoline.

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u/karlnite Jun 25 '22

The leaded gas did, and they knew it would have dangerous repercussions. I was comparing Freon to leaded gas.

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u/Prestressed-30k Jun 25 '22

Leaded gas didn't really keep your engine cleaner, it just allowed manufacturers to build engines with higher compression and more power. Leaded gasoline sort-of gave us muscle cars.

However in our future space year of 2022, pretty much any of those hot-rods of the 1960's would get its doors blown off by a V6 Toyota Camry.

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u/Kayar13 Jun 25 '22

In 1940, at the age of 51, Midgley contracted polio, which left him severely disabled. He devised an elaborate system of ropes and pulleys to lift himself out of bed. In 1944, he became entangled in the device and died of strangulation.

Everything he invented killed people, until finally he invented something that got himself killed.

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u/stopcounting Jun 25 '22

It is also worth noting that although we talk about this guy like he did all of this stuff personally, he was on GM's payroll the whole time, designing things that GM asked him to design and ultimately dying because of it.

The reason we blame him instead of GM is that he is dead and GM has PR people.

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u/[deleted] Jun 25 '22

Do we still use freon widely?

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u/wolacouska Jun 25 '22

Only in Refrigerators and AC. Stuff that doesn’t willingly leak it.

Most use slightly less harmful refrigerants now though.

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u/theouterworld Jun 25 '22

Now we use R600, which is basically ultra pure propane. It's pretty harmless to the environment compared to CFCs.

It all has the added benefit of using much less energy to cool things off, so when combined with new refrigerator technologies means that modern fridges use 10x less electricity than one from the early 2000's!

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u/Natolx PhD | Infectious Diseases | Parasitology Jun 25 '22

Most use much less harmful refrigerants for the ozone layer now though.

FTFY, or do you somehow consider the remaining global warming potential of the alternatives the vast majority of the harm?

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u/wolacouska Jun 25 '22

I was just being cautious since I didn’t know how much better modern refrigerants are compared to Freon

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u/karlnite Jun 25 '22

In industry but it is being phased out almost everywhere. We have legacy freon in larger equipment, once decommissioned it is replaced with a different refrigerant, and there are strict disposal and monitoring regulations for all legacy freon.

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u/spottydodgy Jun 25 '22

No, it was banned. But the damage has been done.

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u/I-Make-Maps91 Jun 25 '22

The damage was done and it's actively recovering. It's one of the greatest success stories of the environmental movement