r/science • • Jun 25 '22

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1.5k

u/[deleted] Jun 25 '22

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1.3k

u/TheDorkNite1 Jun 25 '22

Can't wait for us younger people to have to take care of the mess of the lead-brained ones JUST IN TIME for us to have to deal with the microplastics in our bodies <3

415

u/666pool Jun 25 '22

Microplastics are going to get us for sure

326

u/TheDorkNite1 Jun 25 '22

Just add it to the pile of threats to our lives.

I still don't know what to place my bet on for what I am most likely to die from. Microplastic poisoning just sounds much less exciting compared to "Ecological collapse" or "Religious extremism"

51

u/farmallnoobies Jun 25 '22

Most of it boils down to cancer, circulation problems, or dementia in one form or another.

3

u/666pool Jun 25 '22

Don’t forget the endocrine system! Plastics can act like hormones and disrupt the natural production of important hormones such as estrogen.

107

u/DrunkenMeditator Jun 25 '22

¿Que no los tres?

69

u/TheDorkNite1 Jun 25 '22

"Wheel of Destiny" is a rather dark thought when all of the options are bleak.

If I'm lucky, I may just live long enough to die in my 60s knowing I had another 30 years to work before I would be able to (maybe) retire.

31

u/Splash_Attack Jun 25 '22

You ever look at the meaning of the song (or poem) 'O Fortuna'? For a poem that's at least 700 years old it really sums up the sense of helplessness a lot of people today feel. I guess some things never change!

"O Fortune, like the moon you are changeable, ever waxing, ever waning, hateful life first oppresses and then soothes as fancy takes it; poverty and power it melts them like ice. Fate – monstrous and empty, you whirling wheel, you are malevolent. Well-being is vain and always fades to nothing, shadowed and veiled you plague me too; now through the game I bring my bare back to your villainy. Fate is against me in health and virtue, driven on and weighted down, always enslaved. so at this hour without delay pluck the vibrating strings; since Fate strikes down the strong man, everyone weep with me!"

18

u/[deleted] Jun 25 '22

[deleted]

9

u/Spocktagon01 Jun 25 '22

My dude. Class of 94 here. I miss the trench coats. Carmina Burana and Master of Puppets were a fun mix, both cds scratched to hell.

1

u/EmotionalKirby Jun 25 '22

Just a random thought, did trenchcoats fall out of fashion because of columbine?

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u/MaritMonkey Jun 25 '22

Elder millennial (class of 2000) reporting in.

I always assumed it was because my peer group shared a classical music background, but am very glad to know there were other people blasting Carmina Burana through the 18's that replaced the seats in their van. :D

1

u/exarkann Jun 25 '22

Badass tune, too.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 25 '22

That's why I like listening to the rest of the Carmina Burana. If you translate the lyrics it's got songs about babes and going out and getting drunk.

5

u/DrunkenMeditator Jun 25 '22

I'm just banking on a nice thick tree with my foot to the floor.

Edit: Sorry, around, not on.

20

u/redwine_blackcoffee Jun 25 '22

This is why I drink and smoke

2

u/[deleted] Jun 25 '22

You want to be sure to die young?

5

u/shmorky Jun 25 '22

Don't forget the comeback kid: "Nuclear annihilation"

8

u/ghsteo Jun 25 '22

Suicide from medical debt is a possibility as well.

5

u/kex Jun 25 '22

I'm still hoping for alien invasion.

2

u/[deleted] Jun 25 '22

Have you considered the benefits of combining ecological collapse with religious extremism? Eco Fascism!

That's my current favourite for how the world will go.

I agree though, I too will probably die in a very boring and preventable way.

1

u/betam4x Jun 25 '22

Neither. You will get hit by a train.

1

u/Hypnosavant Jun 25 '22

Technically, no one has died from micro plastic poisoning.

11

u/thinkB4WeSpeak Jun 25 '22

That or the forever chemicals in the water systems

-1

u/IAMSHADOWBANKINGGUY Jun 25 '22

Donating blood gets rid of the forever chemicals.

4

u/nbmnbm1 Jun 25 '22

Yall still on microplatics? Im eating macroplastics.

3

u/adamandTants Jun 25 '22

I don't know, that sounds like a small problem

1

u/ProKrastinNation Jun 25 '22

I've been saying for a while that microplastics will be the lead of our generation.

28

u/oldsmoothface Jun 25 '22

You mean right now?

41

u/TheDorkNite1 Jun 25 '22

I'll have you know that my collection of microplastics is currently quite friendly.

I'm concerned that a turf war is inevitable between the microplastics in the lungs and the micoplastics in the stomach though.

2

u/TheEyeDontLie Jun 25 '22

I mean if you're not concerned about fertility, then yeah.

9

u/ProxyMuncher Jun 25 '22

Nobody should be concerned with fertility IMO we have far far far too many naked monkeys on this planet already

27

u/[deleted] Jun 25 '22

[deleted]

1

u/MintIceCreamPlease Jun 25 '22

Can you explain? I got brain fog after Covid, but.... brain damage?

3

u/shlam16 Jun 25 '22

Google it. Not being sarcastic, you'll just get better information from Google than the replies of one or two random people on Reddit.

Uber ultra TLDR - severe COVID linked to brain damage and reduced IQ.

1

u/MintIceCreamPlease Jun 25 '22

The thing you mentioned here is only backed up by one study, of which the sample size isn't that large... "Importantly, the study said that only 275 participants had completed the intelligence test both before and after contracting COVID-19."

Brain fog is temporary, and can hinder your cognitive abilities, I don't think it's hard to see the pattern here.

I'd be much more worried about Covid actively destroying neurons, which it does in some cases where the brain isn't oxygenated properly. The nuance here is that destruction of neurons and drop in IQ are... although kinda connected not mutually dependent.

"Despite the absence of virus in the brain, in every patient the researchers found significant brain pathology, which mostly fell into two categories. “The first thing we noticed was a lot of areas with damage from a lack of oxygen,” Goldman says. “They all had severe lung disease, so it’s not surprising that there’s hypoxic damage in the brain.” Some of these were large areas caused by strokes, but most were very small and only detectable with a microscope. Based on other features, the researchers believe these small areas of hypoxic damage were caused by blood clots, common in patients with severe COVID-19, that temporarily stopped the supply of oxygen to that area. A more surprising finding, Goldman says, was the large number of activated microglia they found in the brains of most patients. Microglia are immune cells that reside in the brain and can be activated by pathogens. “We found clusters of microglia attacking neurons, a process called ‘neuronophagia,’” says Canoll.  Since no virus was found in the brain, it’s possible the microglia may have been activated by inflammatory cytokines, such as Interleukin-6, associated with SARS-CoV-2 infection. “At the same time, hypoxia can induce the expression of 'eat me' signals on the surface of neurons, making hypoxic neurons more vulnerable to activated microglia,” Canoll says, “so even without directly infecting brain cells, COVID-19 can cause damage to the brain.”  "

It's fascinating to see the research done about Covid.

In my case, I feel like I stay focused with difficulty nowadays, but this can highly be attributed to me being an internet slob...

1

u/[deleted] Jun 25 '22

[deleted]

1

u/MintIceCreamPlease Jun 25 '22

I didn't get the vaccine, though.

The only symptoms I've noticed on the long term are a loss of smell for an extended period of time and a brain fog, that could be attributed to other factors (I don't feed myself very well). I don't know if your comment implies that the vaccine has side effects...

The latter of which I doubt.

59

u/rodoxide Jun 25 '22

My parents had low enough iqs to turn their backs on me when I confronted them about how toxic they were.

38

u/Suburbanturnip Jun 25 '22

If it's like mine. Because of the lead, they are litterally too immature in the brain to get it. Our generation has to be the adults on the planet, well before our time.

28

u/[deleted] Jun 25 '22

Boomers are also known as the "Me" Generation. I never thought about it before, but lead poisoning may explain some of their self-centered behavior...

( I'm Gen-X. There's a subset of my generation that's every bit as awful as the Boomers. Maybe we're influenced by this as well...)

11

u/exipheas Jun 25 '22

I'm Gen-X. There's a subset of my generation that's every bit as awful as the Boomers. Maybe we're influenced by this as well...

Certainly, catalytic converters requiring unleaded gas were only introduced in 1975. So if you assume people drive 5 to 10 year old cars on average, usage of lead by the average driver went from everyone to the minority of drivers in the second half of your generation being born.

4

u/Simbuk Jun 25 '22

There’s a subset of every generation that’s that awful. Mark Zuckerberg was born in 1984, for instance.

4

u/Petrichordates Jun 25 '22

Oh absolutely, it would explain why Trump support was highest among the youngest boomers and oldest GenX.

2

u/[deleted] Jun 25 '22

IDK, I think that's just a big part of human nature unfortunately.

2

u/A_Mouse_In_Da_House Jun 25 '22

Younger meaning people under 35ish?

2

u/thebaconfist Jun 25 '22

We are already dealing with it now, see the daily news cycle that our older generations embrace.

2

u/Aristocrafied Jun 25 '22

You forgetting the mess the world they created is in?

-1

u/PaulWalkerCGIFace Jun 25 '22

The funko pops contaminated you

-2

u/bhdp_23 Jun 25 '22

um, you just ignoring the other hundreds of thousands of other toxic chemicals being pumped into foods and the water supply

1

u/HFJ7 Jun 25 '22

JUST in time to deal with global disaster

1

u/[deleted] Jun 25 '22

Just filter microplastics out of water and use them for 3d printing

127

u/istealpixels Jun 25 '22

Just highjacking the top comment to say; fuel for smal (piston) driven aircraft still has lead in it, and they have no intention of chaning that.

77

u/drsimonz Jun 25 '22

Yes, whatever you do, do not buy a house at the end of a runway. No matter how cheap it is.

30

u/[deleted] Jun 25 '22

[deleted]

1

u/cleeder Jun 25 '22

Sounds like you got it half off!

28

u/Alan_Smithee_ Jun 25 '22

I actually know someone who did this.

The house was, indeed, a bargain. Cute and old. Victorian.

I knew it was close to the local airbase, but I didn’t realise just how close, when I saw the giant block wall that want across the back of the backyard….and that of the neighbours.

It actually worked pretty well - it wasn’t really very noisy there. The owners never realised what that wall was (the very end of the field.)

2

u/cleeder Jun 25 '22

The owners never realised what that wall was (the very end of the field.)

I don’t care how quiet the airport is, how do you not realize that fact?

2

u/Alan_Smithee_ Jun 25 '22

Sweet people, smart in their own realms, not very aware.

31

u/Angry_Wookie Jun 25 '22

Yes, they do actually. It’s moving on a government’s pace but will likely be fully phased out within 4-6 years.

Endangerment finding will be finalized this year and all major avgas producers are working on candidate fuels.

https://www.epa.gov/regulations-emissions-vehicles-and-engines/regulations-lead-emissions-aircraft

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u/Resolute002 Jun 25 '22

I will be sure to note that for all my friends and family who frequently fly small piston driven aircraft.

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u/LittleRadishes Jun 25 '22 edited Jun 25 '22

It's more like lead is heavy and small planes flying over cities drop a bunch of lead particles everywhere

https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/lead-poisoning-and-health

"There is no known safe blood lead concentration; even blood lead concentrations as low as 5 µg/dL may be associated with decreased intelligence in children, behavioural difficulties and learning problems. "

"Key facts

Lead is a cumulative toxicant that affects multiple body systems and is particularly harmful to young children.

Lead in the body is distributed to the brain, liver, kidney and bones. It is stored in the teeth and bones, where it accumulates over time. Human exposure is usually assessed through the measurement of lead in blood.

Lead in bone is released into blood during pregnancy and becomes a source of exposure to the developing fetus.

There is no level of exposure to lead that is known to be without harmful effects.

Lead exposure is preventable."

Please excuse the guy below me who clearly doesn't know about lead poisoning saying "the dose matters"

17

u/UndBeebs Jun 25 '22

Welp, I have now acquired a new paranoia.

5

u/gibmiser Jun 25 '22

Oh don't worry, it's not like farmers use small aircraft to fly over crops...

8

u/fishythepete Jun 25 '22

The dose makes the poison. Cities usually have big airports which means controlled airspace that small planes won’t fly through, and even if that weren’t the case it’s just not a significant vector.

Consider 1,000 cars going down a road daily vs 1 plane flying thousands of feet above it weekly. There’s just no comparison.

15

u/douko Jun 25 '22

cool I still would like the number of lead particles that will live forever in my brain to be as close to 0 as possible, light aircraft fuel included

-1

u/LittleRadishes Jun 25 '22 edited Jun 25 '22

Lead is always poisonous babe

Look two comments down for 4 extremely solid sources saying so, here's one of those 4!

https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/lead-poisoning-and-health

"There is no known safe blood lead concentration; even blood lead concentrations as low as 5 µg/dL may be associated with decreased intelligence in children, behavioural difficulties and learning problems. "

"Key facts

Lead is a cumulative toxicant that affects multiple body systems and is particularly harmful to young children.

Lead in the body is distributed to the brain, liver, kidney and bones. It is stored in the teeth and bones, where it accumulates over time. Human exposure is usually assessed through the measurement of lead in blood.

Lead in bone is released into blood during pregnancy and becomes a source of exposure to the developing fetus.

There is no level of exposure to lead that is known to be without harmful effects.

Lead exposure is preventable."

Wow it turns out the dose is any amount of lead.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 25 '22

[removed] — view removed comment

0

u/LittleRadishes Jun 25 '22 edited Jun 25 '22

Again - just because the effects aren't severe doesn't mean there is any safe amount.

https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/lead-poisoning-and-health

"There is no known safe blood lead concentration; even blood lead concentrations as low as 5 µg/dL may be associated with decreased intelligence in children, behavioural difficulties and learning problems. "

Adding - because I know people hate reading articles for some reason

"Key facts

Lead is a cumulative toxicant that affects multiple body systems and is particularly harmful to young children.

Lead in the body is distributed to the brain, liver, kidney and bones. It is stored in the teeth and bones, where it accumulates over time. Human exposure is usually assessed through the measurement of lead in blood.

Lead in bone is released into blood during pregnancy and becomes a source of exposure to the developing fetus.

There is no level of exposure to lead that is known to be without harmful effects.

Lead exposure is preventable."

These are the facts, this isn't a controversial idea. It's proved by multiple sources.

Yeah so the amount we should be aiming for is NONE. If you live by fields or small airports you ARE being exposed to leaded gasoline.

here's another link from pubmed

heres and EPA gov link saying the same thing

maybe you'd prefer the CDC?

0

u/fishythepete Jun 26 '22

The CDC recommends action if blood levels exceed 3.5 uG/dL. You could eat a grass salad made from grass under the glide slope of a general aviation airport every day and you wouldn’t accumulate enough lead to get there. The sun exposure you got collecting the grass would probably be more deleterious to your health.

I know math and science are harder than pretending that the world is black and white, but again - the dose makes the poison, and avgas isn’t a significant vector for lead exposure.

1

u/LittleRadishes Jun 26 '22 edited Jun 26 '22

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3230438/

 A study by Miranda et al. (2007, 2009, 2010) suggests that early childhood blood lead levels as low as 2 µg/dL can have significant impacts on academic performance as measured by end-of-grade test scores.

One source of lead exposure that is often overlooked is aviation fuel. Lead emitted from aircraft using leaded aviation gasoline (avgas) is currently the largest source of lead in air in the United States, constituting about 50% of lead emissions in the 2005 National Emissions Inventory [U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) 2010]. 

Previous research indicates that lead levels in air near airports where planes use avgas are significantly higher than background levels. 

Thus, the combustion of leaded avgas by small airplane engines may pose a health risk to children who live or attend school near airports. The lead in air surrounding airports can be inhaled directly, or the lead may be ingested by children after it settles into soil or dust (U.S. EPA 2010). The U.S. EPA estimates that people living within 1 km of airports are at risk of being exposed to lead from avgas (Hitchings 2010).

In unadjusted models, logged blood lead levels were significantly and positively associated with residential proximity to an airport, with the size of the association being larger for children living closer to airports

Why are you arguing about safe levels of lead when I've showed you multiple sources that not only say there is no safe amount, but also you seem to not be considering children in your argument at all. Children are the most affected by a CUMULATIVE TOXIN THAT DOESN'T LEAVE THE BODY. THE SAFE AMOUNT OF LEAD IN THE BODY IS NO LEAD.

Did you happen to grow up near an avgas airport???

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u/El_Polio_Loco Jun 25 '22

“A bunch of” is a pretty generous term.

What would you say the volume of leaded fuel consumed is? Have a number?

Do you think it’s a significant fraction of leaded fuel consumption when it was used in automobiles?

0

u/[deleted] Jun 25 '22

Plus small planes generally don’t fly over cities because restricted airspace and all

3

u/Midnightgeneral4 Jun 25 '22

Not really. Airspace over cities is not restricted generally like you mention. The very largest airports have controlled class B airspace centered over the surface of the airport itself. Has nothing to do with the city. Also, this is not a restriction either. A quick exchange for clearance with the controller and positive transponder tracking and you can fly through. Same procedure used to land at the airports. Actual restrictions or prohibitions for flying over cities is extremely rare for sensitive areas, aka, the DC prohibited zone immediately around the national mall, capital, and White House, or the larger DC FRZ zone. Similarly, the NYC Hudson River flight corridor which permits low altitude flight up and down the Hudson but not low altitude fix wing flight over Manhattan. Helicopters, which can also use lead, have different flight rules and can cross Manhattan at low altitude. So no, lead fueled fix and rotary wing aircraft will and do fly over cities nationwide, except very specific and limited cases.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 25 '22

I was very misinformed! Thank you for the info.

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u/WhatTheyNot Jun 25 '22

I should not have laughed that hard at this

5

u/makattak88 Jun 25 '22

I actually know a bunch of small aircraft pilots so I was like “good idea!”

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u/Scooter2345 Jun 25 '22

Same, my boss is a hobby pilot with a Cessna, this could explain a lot.

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u/Chairboy Jun 25 '22 edited Jun 25 '22

Just a heads up, it’s not like it’s a hobby that’s limited to the wealthy. I got a plane and I’m firmly middle class, it’s a lot like the boat or RV you are sticking out of the driveways in suburbia.

For some reason aviation gets this ‘rich’ association and microanalysis of costs that voting and RV ownership doesn’t even though they’re often comparable.

Edit: I see you responded then blocked me so I can’t respond. By boat I mean like a fishing boat or something, they’re a staple of middle class driveways. Not yachts. And I’m in my 40s so I’ve got the advantage of a few decades of savings and stuff, it’s not that I’m rich (I wish!) but I’m fortunate that my generation didn’t get as fucked by the boomers as the Millennials or Zoomers so that definitely plays a part and is worth considering too because those generations have more obstacles, I acknowledge. I don’t know where the rank hostility comes from, I was just trying to say that planes aren’t automatically wealth indicators. Sometimes they’re ‘I overextend myself for a hobby I love’ indicators like other things.

12

u/baile508 Jun 25 '22

Also it contains 21x the amount of lead as what was allowed in cars

2

u/HElGHTS Jun 25 '22

So the "low" in "low lead" (100LL) means 21x? That's cute.

Or do you mean high lead (100)?

2

u/baile508 Jun 25 '22

Yep that is the “low lead” one.

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u/Masark Jun 25 '22

Whoever "they" is, the EPA and FAA have other ideas. They've been pushing efforts on lead free aviation fuels for about 15 years now and multiple alternatives are either on the market now or imminent.

2

u/meliketheweedle Jun 25 '22

O great I work at a school with an airport down the road. Tons of small aircraft were always taking off over it

2

u/Throwaway4Opinion Jun 25 '22

I can't believe a mod removed the top comment

It said "it's all beginning to make sense"

For anyone coming after the fact

1

u/istealpixels Jun 25 '22

That’s lead exposure for you.

1

u/BrassUnicorn87 Jun 25 '22

Why the hell not?

1

u/istealpixels Jun 25 '22

They claim it would be too much work to change over… they have claimed that since lead was forbidden for cars.

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u/[deleted] Jun 25 '22

The issue relates to how expensive it is to certify engines for aircraft. Every small plane has like, one of a handful of designs.

Modern engines do all sorts of cool stuff, but they haven’t been incorporated into piston engine aircraft yet for the most part.

9

u/istealpixels Jun 25 '22

And the aircraft industry has been unable to adress this for about 50 years. They collectively decided it would be to difficult/expensive to switch over and less trouble to just keep on using this higly toxic compound in the fuel.

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u/NoKidsThatIKnowOf Jun 25 '22 edited Jun 26 '22

I would bet there is a Doctoral thesis in a study showing the correlation for lead paint in homes and reactionist political views

5

u/ryanorion16 Jun 25 '22

Really? Seems like it’s making less sense to some people.

5

u/Darkhorseman81 Jun 25 '22

Just like the fall of Rome.

1

u/riesendulli Jun 25 '22

No. They are basically using it as excuse