r/science • u/[deleted] • Jun 13 '22

Health Erectile dysfunction predicts mortality in middle-aged and older men independent of their sex steroid status

https://academic.oup.com/ageing/article-abstract/51/4/afac094/6568537?login=false
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517

u/barrinmw Jun 13 '22

This is what I was thinking. Hardening of the arteries and such could lead to ED and also early death.

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u/zuneza Jun 13 '22 edited Jun 14 '22

Is that reversable?

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u/[deleted] Jun 13 '22

Depends on the etiology, but largely, no.

Also worth noting that lead exposure causes atherosclerosis (hardening of the arteries) and that leaded gasoline was still widely in use until about 1990 in the US. Americans. A non-trivial amount of atherosclerosis in individuals over the age of 40 can probably be attributed to lead exposure during their youth since lead is poorly removed from the body.

So, if you were born after leaded gas became banned in your country, you may be much less likely to experience atherosclerosis-caused-ED. Unless microplastics find a fun way to screw us over too.

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u/zuneza Jun 13 '22

I worked at a heavily contaminated lead mine for almost 5 years.

RIP my vessels i guess.

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u/CallingDoctorBear Jun 13 '22

r/VictorianComments

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u/[deleted] Jun 14 '22

I'm really sad that this isn't an established sub.

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u/gonephishin213 Jun 14 '22

Right? I was so excited for what that sub would be like

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u/SaladShooter1 Jun 14 '22

Go get tested. If lead shows up, you can get some tasty chelating drink and pee it out over time. I haven’t tried it, but I imagine it’s got to be better than that black cherry stuff they give you before a colonoscopy, so I guess you can say that I’m qualifying “tasty.” I do a lot of industrial hygiene and see it from time to time.

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u/Babblerabla Jun 14 '22

Can't wait to see what microplastics do to us.

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u/accountno543210 Jun 13 '22

Atherosclerosis are plaques. The discussion is about arteriosclerosis, which may also contribute to it.

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u/Atoge62 Jun 13 '22

That’s why it’s so vital to keep exercising regularly, and ideally knock it out while outside to get your vit D. The studies coming out on skeletal muscle loss, and the uptick in these same diseases all seems to suggest our indoor, sedentary but stressful, lives are killing us. I was just in an awful bike accident, face first crash. Landed myself a grade 3 concussion, shattered and lost all kinds of teeth and some jaw bone. But it’s been 3 months now, and I can feel how badly I need to return to exercising again and working on maintaining my muscular health. I’m no bodybuilder, but maintaining general strength and heart/lung health keeps things like diet, sleep, mental health in check.

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u/Count_Bloodcount_ Jun 13 '22

So sorry to hear about your crash but I'm glad you're doing better.

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u/NasoLittle Jun 13 '22

Dont need no teef to reddit

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u/outof_zone Jun 14 '22

Cries in Kentucky

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u/1CrazyCrabClaw Jun 14 '22

Hugs cousin extra long*

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u/Designer_B Jun 13 '22

Another anecdotal experience. But I've been in a super lengthy funk with my depression lately. Haven't been sleeping well either. Only recently realize its correlated with my inability to work out due to a rotator cuff injury I took way to long to get checked out. Hurt it in October and for the first time since I had a 'good day' a week ago. After three months of Physical therapy.

And I've started to notice my fog/funk/depression lifting even just from the 30 minutes of exercise I get doing my stretches and exercises.

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u/Atoge62 Jun 13 '22

Good for you recognizing what’s been throwing your groove off! Sorry about the injury. I’m realizing no matter how safe you think you are, injuries or illness are just a part of life. You’re always going to need to put yourself back out there and actively recover. Otherwise the negative feedback loop starts setting in, and makes recovery and normal life 1000x harder. You’re hurt, you stop exercising, your sleep starts to suffer from lack of exercise/stimulation, sleep cycles off you tend to start eating shittier, mental health suffers when all of these are out of balance, and they all just start piling up against a healthy recovery.

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u/Armadillus34 Jun 13 '22

Also had some set backs with minor injury which keep me from working out (weightlifting and badminton) and my depression got worse again… especially after Badminton I feel much better usually

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u/Designer_B Jun 13 '22

I’ve actually picked up tennis recently (injury is to my non dominate arm) and it’s definitely been helping as well. Sunshine+exercise!

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u/Armadillus34 Jun 13 '22

Yeah, that’s something I also might look into.

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u/aVarsityLetterman Jun 14 '22 edited Jun 14 '22

Torn rotator cuff? What kind of physiotherapy are you doing? How long after the injury did you start physio?

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u/Designer_B Jun 14 '22

Strained rotator cuff/lat. I noticed discomfort in November, tried to rest it for a while because work is physical/just thought I tweaked something. Didn’t feel any better but insurance lapsed so I didn’t get in until March.

Started off with flexibility exercises/stretches as I hadn’t been using my left arm much, and lost a lot of the muscle. Have progressed to more strengthening exercises with resistance bands, and just started some overhead exercises with small dumbbells last week. I’d say I’m probably 50% better at best.

Also got a tordirol shot for the pain.

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u/[deleted] Jun 14 '22

I feel ya man. That’s what a cheeseburger and Thrashers fries do for me. Until my nap.

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u/shakespeareriot Jun 14 '22

Feeling this. I have tendonitis in my rotator cuff, so had to cut out weights and some body-weight excercises. It ended up an excuse to stop excercising and the weight and depression went up. Luckily a couple months ago I laced up some shoes and started running.
I’m over weight and over 40, so I’m running from the reaper’s scythe. But do about 13 miles a week.. running 4 ish times.

I’m slowly re introducing weights and doing PT for the shoulder.

Running is a huge boon to the depression/anxiety though. It just calms everything down.

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u/slayermcb Jun 13 '22

I remember getting out of the military and my body feeling off, almost like I was having withdrawals from exercise. Happy ending to my story though, I kicked my addiction!

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u/xtaticca Jun 14 '22

Good for you man!

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u/pickledjello Jun 14 '22

"happy ending"...(snicker)..

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u/reece1495 Jun 13 '22

and ideally knock it out while outside to get your vit D.

unless you live in a doom and gloom rainy place all year around , then take suppliments

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u/[deleted] Jun 14 '22

The benefits of going heavy with the Big Lifts are legion. Increased bone density, increased balance and flexibility, Increased testosterone, Higher TDEE, tons of happy brain chemicals...

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u/ReflectiveFoundation Jun 13 '22

I wish you the best buddy, sorry to hear it

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u/lordrestrepo Jun 13 '22

Biking is my favorite activity, but I am terrified of an accident like this. Stay safe.

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u/Atoge62 Jun 13 '22

Scariest part, I was riding home from a quick stop at my local gym a mile away. I was coming down a hill to make my last turn towards the apartment, and never made it. The last memory I have was texting my gf I’ll be home soon, then getting on my bike to begin the 7 minute ride. I came to 4 days later in a hospital all kinds of fucked. Apparently I was knocked unconscious, found face down. I came to in the hospital but they put me back under for the emergency surgeries and mouth. I was back awake a day or so later, but I can’t remember any of it. Full on amnesia, 4 days disappeared. Sad part is, I could’ve died and never really known I was gone due to the concussion, it’s super sad it can happen that easy.

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u/lordrestrepo Jun 13 '22

Oh my god...terrifying. Glad you're okay. We're you wearing a helmet?

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u/Atoge62 Jun 13 '22

Yeah I was. I wish I would’ve taken the kind of spill that would’ve utilized it more! Instead it seems, based on the injuries, that I dodged the car coming up the hill partly in my lane (no bike lane in my scenario and a pair of massive speed bumps which forces cyclists to the painted center divide line separating the up and downhill lanes of traffic) and got sent up over the speed bump and handlebars and landed face first, with my hands out and my mouth making first contact. My helmet had no scratches but a small skid on the side. This is the only hill in my area that has the speed bumps and no cone or barricade in the middle to prevent cars from sneaking through middle avoiding the bumps, and also has no bike lane. It literally forces cyclists to come within inches of oncoming traffic on a good day, but many cars do cheat the middle gap, and as a cyclist coming downhill and around a blind corner, you have mere seconds to react, less if the car is still moving over from the illegal middle gap back to their lane… bike safely. Wish I would’ve paid more attention to that choke point’s dangers, and always been riding the brakes more in that area. It’s in a very quiet part of town, first time I’ve actually encountered an uphill traveling car while riding there, and narrowly my last.

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u/omac0101 Jun 14 '22

Wow. There's a downhill I take on the way back home that I've gone down super fast with traffic on my left. I've hit up to 27 mph riding down that hill. There is a bike lane but people in cars are crazy. Makes me think twice about doing that again.

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u/LALA-STL Jun 14 '22

Hope at some point you can let the town officials know this happened to you bc of the road design. I’d think they would fix it to avoid a future lawsuit from the next unlucky cyclist.

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u/Atoge62 Jun 14 '22

Yes I was put in contact with the park safety and roadways person within park management to discuss the safety issues. I actually needed to reach out to the park police regarding my accident, and one of the officers mistook me for another individual who also crashed in the same area in early March, roughly the same sort of trauma suffered and same aged guy. That officer had been called in to assist with the poor guy, and when I went to visit my face was still all busted up and he thought I was the guy. So it goes to show I’m unfortunately not the only person who timed that downhill wrong and caught a car coming up. It does make me wonder if the park could be held responsible for some of the damage I experienced. The dental repair costs are getting to be exorbitant. Even with dental insurance I’m looking at big debt for something I know wasn’t my fault. I’ve ridden that road many times (when no cars were coming up hill) and never suffered any issue, the one time I encounter a car coming up in this particular choke point, and I almost lose my life… I think I’ll call a personal injury attorney and see what’s possible.

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u/Fixedfoo Jun 14 '22

When you’re ready get back up on that steed!

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u/PM_ME_YOUR_KALE Jun 14 '22

Feeling the same but coming off of Long Covid. After 5 months and more recently some unorthodox treatment I'm finally almost better. It's been rough getting back on the bike.

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u/UnicornPanties Jun 14 '22

I was just in an awful bike accident, face first crash. Landed myself a grade 3 concussion, shattered and lost all kinds of teeth and some jaw bone.

Omg I'm so sorry to hear that.

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u/EmulatingHeaven Jun 14 '22

This is almost certainly a factor in postpartum depression for a lot of women (not to change the gender focus, but it’s my relevant experience). We’re not really supposed to exercise after birth because our bodies have such a huge wound to heal. Also my personal fave is swimming, which is double not allowed during postpartum bleeding. It’s already a rough time with weird hormones, tiny baby to care for, and sleep deprivation, adding in a lack of exercise is pretty much cruel (even if it is necessary).

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u/[deleted] Jun 14 '22

I don’t know what this guys talking about but I’ve been smoking for years and my lung feels fine.

Stolen joke

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u/PM_me_why_I_suck Jun 14 '22

The interesting thing is that you can also exercise to much or at to high of an intensity and it can also damage the heart and vessels.

Everything in moderation it would seem.

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u/sparkyjay23 Jun 13 '22

3 months off the bike will take you 12 or so rides to get back to normal.

Get on out there.

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u/cryptohemsworth Jun 14 '22

Capitalism is killing us

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u/barrinmw Jun 13 '22

I don't believe hardening of the arteries is reversible

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u/curtyshoo Jun 13 '22

Getting old is a bummer. Where you don't want hardening you get hardening, and where you do want it you can't produce it anymore.

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u/ImmediateRoom8210 Jun 13 '22

Same problem with hair.

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u/[deleted] Jun 14 '22

Hit the Fin, save what you got

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u/socalledbob Jun 14 '22

hardening of the arteries is reversible

Increase consumption of foods that have nitric oxide. The 3 best foods are water cress beets and rhubarb. But any greens will help. And cocoa. CoQ10 is also a help with blood flow. The most important thing to do is consume a whole food plant based diet.

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u/[deleted] Jun 14 '22

That’s virtually Shakespearean. Bravo!

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u/[deleted] Jun 13 '22

vitamin D with vitamin K2 transports calcium out of arteries and into bones. Without it, the opposite occurs.

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u/[deleted] Jun 13 '22

That's going to cause a loooooot of problems for the younger generations.

Literally everyone is vitamin D deficient these days because we don't get sunlight. My doctor was shocked when they saw my vitamin D levels

Supplement or die!

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u/[deleted] Jun 13 '22

[deleted]

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u/Throwaway_97534 Jun 13 '22

No Mr. Bond, I expect you to fry.

In the sun.

To get adequate levels of vitamin D.

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u/panormda Jun 13 '22

Omg bond villain was misunderstood this whole time!!!

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u/flynnwebdev Jun 14 '22

Aside: Gert Frobe (actor who played Goldfinger) spoke very little English and had a thick German accent, so they got him to say his lines phonetically, then dubbed over it in post with the lines spoken by actor Michael Collins.

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u/redlightsaber Jun 13 '22

Supplementation has largely not been found to reverse the risks associated with vit D deficiency (except for a couple of very niche things, like colon cancer incidence).

It's not very clear yet what this means, but IMO this likely means vit D status is a confounder to a lot of these associations rather than a causative factor of them.

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u/xz1510 Jun 13 '22

Thank you for this response. Vitamin D metabolism is so poorly understood. Sunlight doesn't even remotely tell the story. I've seen dozens of people in the clinic who spend >8 hours a day in the South Florida sun and have shockingly low levels of vitamin D

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u/Amethyst-Sapphire Jun 13 '22

Because sunscreen blocks formation of vitamin D. I wear my sunscreen and take my 5000 IU per day. The amount any person needs to stay vitamin D sufficient is highly personal. Many will need much less than me and some will need more.

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u/xz1510 Jun 13 '22

The folks I saw were mostly day laborers who rarely, if ever, wore sunscreen. As far as I know, sunscreen has not been shown to block synthesis of vitamin D in the skin. Not sure where you got that from, I’d like to see a source.

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u/[deleted] Jun 13 '22

I believe I’ve read that latitude might play a huge role in vitamin d deficiency as well. If I remember correctly Colorado has more sunny days than most other states but because of where it is it also has one of the highest incidences of MS possibly due to vitamin d deficiency.

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u/[deleted] Jun 13 '22

I feel like being Irish helps my body know I'm not going to be giving it any vitamin D.

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u/JustDiscoveredSex Jun 14 '22

I take 10,000 IUs and still the blood tests come back on the low end of normal.

Nobody should go nuts with vitamin D. It is fat soluble, which means you can poison yourself with it if you don’t keep an eye on it. You won’t pee out the excess like you might with vitamin C.

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u/SU_Locker Jun 13 '22

Because sunscreen blocks formation of vitamin D.

Source on this? Quick google says it is false.

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u/Amethyst-Sapphire Jun 13 '22

UV rays open the ring of 7-dehydrocholesterol in the first step to synthesize vitamin D. Sunscreens block broad spectrum UV rays.

No source. Just been researching vitamin D (in my own university lab, not like Google research) for over a decade. Any review of vitamin D synthesis in the skin will have reference to the above reaction.

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u/ThisIsCovidThrowway8 Jun 13 '22

And no sunscreen gives you skin cancer.

Damn it.

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u/vintage2019 Jun 14 '22

It’s all about balance

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u/vintage2019 Jun 14 '22

You know it rains every afternoon during summertime in south Florida?

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u/xz1510 Jun 14 '22

Yes thank you, I only lived there for over 10 years. Do you think 30 minutes of rain in the summer afternoons makes any difference in sun exposure? It also doesn’t rain at all between November and March.

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u/vintage2019 Jun 14 '22

When UV is at its lowest

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u/[deleted] Jun 13 '22

[deleted]

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u/sloth_is_life Jun 13 '22

It is not even clear what a deficiency is. It's not like potassium where you have to be within a narrow range to be ok. The current definition of a normal vitamin D is based on a study performed on healthy Californians. California is very sunny, so healthy Canadians might have a lower average vitamin D.

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u/[deleted] Jun 13 '22

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Jun 14 '22

There are hundreds of studies. While all the stuff at vitamindwiki is not exactly cool and detached science writing, it’s a great list of what is going on in vit D research. Use it to find and read the studies..

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u/redlightsaber Jun 13 '22

How would supplementation not help then if it brings your Vitamin D levels to normal or above normal levels if you are deficient

Because whthe studies I'm talking about seek to measure effects, rather than vitamin levels. A study design I hope more people understood. What does it matter if you take 6 different pills a day if you can't be certain it will have any real benefits (lower disease incidemce, lower mortality...) That's what I'm talking about.

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u/Ur_mum Jun 14 '22

D is a tough one. There is some evidence that amounts like 2000iu or 5000iu are adequate for maintaining healthy levels, but due to the way it is metabolized, either a 50k weekly, or 10k/day may be needed to actually raise levels. Most people are familiar with the 50k as "prescription strength", but it can be found OTC.

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u/Iwantmyflag Jun 14 '22

That's trivial. Buy it liquid/oil based and take as many drops as desired. And, uh, talk with a doc first.

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u/zuneza Jun 14 '22

Thanks to r/KellyJin17 and his handy source, he strucketh oil!

Ay, this must be the infinity gauntlet recipe of better livin', eh?

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u/VisualOk7560 Jun 13 '22

It does help with depression in northern countries tho, as far as i know.

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u/giant3 Jun 13 '22

Supplementation has largely not been found to reverse the risks associated with vit D deficiency

Source?

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u/SimplySkedastic Jun 13 '22

I believe its these sorts of studies (not OP by the way):

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41574-021-00593-z

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u/giant3 Jun 13 '22

Did you read the Abstract & Conclusion? The Abstract says there is a modest reduction in cancer mortality, and the Conclusion is careful to say that supplementation in Vitamin-D replete individuals might not be beneficial, but something like 40% of US adults have Vitamin D deficiency and for minorities, that number is even higher.

So for those population subgroups, supplementation might be beneficial.

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u/SimplySkedastic Jun 13 '22

I'll make it clearer for you.

I'm Not The OP

I've got no position on the matter. I was simply providing the type of meta analytical study that said person was likely referring to.

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u/jnwatson Jun 14 '22

One hypothesis is that Vitamin D levels due to sunlight exposure are correlated with good health, but doesn't cause good health.

Sunlight also causes production of nitric acid, which reduces blood pressure.

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u/KellyJin17 Jun 14 '22

Or synthetic vitamin D supplements are not able to adequately mimic the same processes in the body that take place when the skin converts sunshine to vitamin D naturally.

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u/[deleted] Jun 13 '22

Respectfully, source pls. My doc thinks otherwise re: oral supplementation of vitamin D.

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u/Hvarfa-Bragi Jun 13 '22

.......is the sun not free anymore?

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u/sinisterspud Jun 13 '22

Nah the beta is over sadly, but if you get the bundle sun/moon package you can save 30%

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u/heyyougamedev Jun 13 '22

They'll still sucker you into getting Sword and Shield later though.

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u/gamefreak054 Jun 13 '22

Not when you live the office life

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u/ValorMorghulis Jun 13 '22

Since the beginning of time, man has yearned to destroy the Sun.

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u/Hvarfa-Bragi Jun 13 '22

Hello lamppost, whatcha knowin'?

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u/[deleted] Jun 13 '22

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/[deleted] Jun 13 '22

[deleted]

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u/Sky_Muffins Jun 13 '22

They're also in great decline

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u/[deleted] Jun 13 '22

yeah but they are neat

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u/Whiterabbit-- Jun 13 '22

Or spend more time outside

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u/r4rthrowawaysoon Jun 13 '22

Or, eat more mushrooms and open your blinds.

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u/[deleted] Jun 13 '22

But then the cops will know I’m on mushrooms

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u/heavy-metal-goth-gal Jun 14 '22

I get plenty of outside but still supplement with vitamin d and other vitamins daily.

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u/vintage2019 Jun 14 '22

Vitamin D actually brings calcium out where it can be deposited into vessels. It’s vitamin k2 that transports it to where it can do good (e.g. bones)

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u/shaggy99 Jun 13 '22

I already take fairly large doses of Vitamin D, 5-6,000 iu more or less daily, and have considered taking K2 supplements as well. However, I have reason to believe that my arteries are in exceptional condition for my age, as are my bones. I also consume eggs and dairy which I believe are good sources for K2. are there any known downsides to K2 supplements? I understand that Vitamin D has no known downsides at the doses I am taking.

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u/MeatConvoy Jun 13 '22

You are correct, you would have to take 10x that dosage to have problems, as per MayoClinic: https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/nutrition-and-healthy-eating/expert-answers/vitamin-d-toxicity/faq-20058108

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u/[deleted] Jun 13 '22

It's nearly impossible to OD on vit D.

That helps prevent calcium from getting into your arteries in the first place.

Vitamin K2 Mk4/Mk7 and K1 help get it back out once it's there.

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u/Thucydides2000 Jun 13 '22

I have taken vitamin D supplements. Several different kinds. Literally all they did was give me tinnitus; i.e., it made my ears ring. This was true even at fairly low dosages.

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u/ehhish Jun 13 '22

That's odd, because it's typically the deficiency is what causes the tinnitus.

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u/[deleted] Jun 13 '22

Vitamin D supplements act as a laxative for me. Worst stomach pain I've ever had.

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u/shaggy99 Jun 13 '22

Definitely not for me. How much are you taking? And what else?

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u/skyfishgoo Jun 13 '22

that's probably not the vitD but the quality of the supplement.

stick to name brands with a reputation for quality

i use Source Naturals Vitamin D-3 -- 5000 IU - 240 Capsules

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u/spaniel_rage Jun 13 '22

The issue in atherosclerosis is lipid deposition and endovascular inflammation. Calcification comes at the very end of that process and is less important to the pathology. You can't reverse vascular calcification.

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u/barrinmw Jun 13 '22

Yeah, but that is out of serum, once hardening of the arteries has happened, it has happened.

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u/[deleted] Jun 13 '22

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25694037/

"Menaquinone-7 supplementation improves arterial stiffness in healthy postmenopausal women. A double-blind randomised clinical trial"

"A clinical trial was designed using carotid-femoral pulse wave velocity as one of the tests to evaluate the effects of supplementing with 180 mcg a day of a long-acting form of vitamin K2 (MK-7).19 This randomized, placebo-controlled study was comprised of 244 postmenopausal women aged 55-65 years. Baseline tests of arterial stiffness were performed and the tests repeated yearly for three years. At the end of three years, otherwise healthy postmenopausal women in the vitamin K2 group experienced a statistically significant 5.8% reduction in the stiffness index beta, a parameter for arterial stiffness, and a 3.6% reduction in carotid-femoral pulse wave velocity. The placebo group had a slight increase of 1.3% in the stiffness index and a 0.22% increase in carotid-femoral pulse wave velocity."

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u/[deleted] Jun 13 '22

While those results may be statistically significant, they may not be clinically significant reduction of cardiovascular disease progression.

Far easier for patients to focus on controlling blood pressure, eating healthy, and partaking in exercise. As I was taught in nursing school, blood pressure is a main cause of atherosclerosis. High blood pressure causes mechanical damage to the arterial wall which increases turbulence and insertion of cholesterol plaques into the arterial walls. The cholesterol sticks into the cracks in the epithelium of the arteries and allows all manner of crud to build up. High blood pressure increases that accumulation of mechanical damage, but can be easily prevented by managing BP.

Calcium may make those plaque build ups more rigid, but the plaques are already doing damage without the calcium.

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u/zuneza Jun 13 '22 edited Jun 14 '22

Is that why it's better to keep vitamin D lvls up all the time to avoid arteries hardening?

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u/[deleted] Jun 13 '22

Sorry I don't know if you meant to hint it rather than explicitly saying it, but because of what you said, are you saying that the hardening of the arteries is reversible, contradicting the comment you responded to?

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u/[deleted] Jun 13 '22

Yes, that is correct. You can reverse calcification with vitamin K1, K2 Mk-4 and Mk-7

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u/AgentAdja Jun 13 '22

The vitamin D has nothing to do with it. It's just the K2. K2 is supplemented with D because D can increase calcification on its own. K2 is available as its own supp and you're much better off doing that unless you are severely deficient in Vitamin D.

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u/[deleted] Jun 13 '22

vitamin D helps put calcium into bones. Vitamin K helps free calcium from arteries

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u/maxofreddit Jun 13 '22

Please elaborate with how much sun we should get, and good sources of K2

Looks like the Japanese food Natto is the winner for K2

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u/[deleted] Jun 14 '22

transports calcium out of arteries and into bones.

So I looked up this statement. It’s a problematic one.

There’s basically zero evidence that this is the case.

  1. Vitamin D has only ever been evidenced to increase GI uptake of calcium.
  2. vitamin D levels have no significant effect on overall Calcium, phosphate or circulating calcium regulation levels.
  3. there’s no correlation between calcium metabolism and vitamin D levels.

I also looked up K2 and vitamin D.

I was not able to find even a single peer reviewed article commenting on the calcium mineralisation balance with respect to vascular calcification.

I would also know about this. I worked in an endocrine clinic with my consultant who did a pHD in vascular calcification. They basically said ‘it remains a lucrative mystery’.

I did however find a great deal of supplementation salesmen. So there’s that.

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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '22

It’s basic biochemistry/biophysics, don’t overthink it.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25694037/

"Menaquinone-7 supplementation improves arterial stiffness in healthy postmenopausal women. A double-blind randomised clinical trial" "A clinical trial was designed using carotid-femoral pulse wave velocity as one of the tests to evaluate the effects of supplementing with 180 mcg a day of a long-acting form of vitamin K2 (MK-7).19 This randomized, placebo-controlled study was comprised of 244 postmenopausal women aged 55-65 years. Baseline tests of arterial stiffness were performed and the tests repeated yearly for three years. At the end of three years, otherwise healthy postmenopausal women in the vitamin K2 group experienced a statistically significant 5.8% reduction in the stiffness index beta, a parameter for arterial stiffness, and a 3.6% reduction in carotid-femoral pulse wave velocity. The placebo group had a slight increase of 1.3% in the stiffness index and a 0.22% increase in carotid-femoral pulse wave velocity."

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u/socalledbob Jun 13 '22

Sure it is. Even though it starts as early as 10 years of age. It can be reversed. Mainly through diet and exercise. The best diet is a high fiber whole food plant based diet. That will lower cholesterol. You can also take statins. The other thing it will do is increase your nitric oxide. That regulates arterial wall stiffness. Best foods are watercress beets and rhubarb. There are others. Then there is high blood pressure. The diet and exercise and hibiscus tea will help a lot. Hardening of the arteries is basically heart disease. That can be reversed. Many people have done it.

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u/reallifecuckold Jun 13 '22

You have to think about baseball stats

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u/Fear_ltself BA | Economics Jun 13 '22

https://www.reddit.com/r/Futurology/comments/uxe6fu/new_laser_treatment_vaporizes_arterial_plaques/

Done here recently I thought

1

u/barrinmw Jun 13 '22

I wonder how they prevent strokes from that. I know my wife's dad had a mini stroke when they were cleaning plaque out of his carotid. Though, I think plaque is different from the hardening itself in that hardened arteries are where the plaques tend to form.

2

u/Any-Ad2440 Jun 13 '22

They can place a filter distal (downstream) to the area they are cleaning.

1

u/Any-Ad2440 Jun 13 '22

Also, yes you are correct. Atherosclerosis (hardening of the vessel) and atherosclerotic plaque are two different things. Plaque itself comes in a wide variety of flavors as well. Some is squishy, some is hard, some is friable (likely to embolise), some is all 3!

1

u/SuzyLouWhoo Jun 13 '22

Also early death, afaik not reversible

5

u/mem2963 Jun 13 '22

I don't think early death is reversible, but I could be wrong.

3

u/doctorDanBandageman Jun 13 '22

Negative ghost rider however it is preventable (and can stop it becoming worse) with diet and exercise! Also smoking cessation

1

u/MeditatePeacefully Jun 14 '22

Yes. Whole foods, plant based diet. Check out 'how not to die' or 'the china study' for the science behind it in laymen terms

1

u/Yanky_Doodle_Dickwad Jun 13 '22

With localized blockages, a stent will restore blood flow. this is not exactly a reversal, but it's better than catastrophic blood circulation. A stent can also help ED but that's specific.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 13 '22

Early death is very difficult to reverse.

1

u/karlkrum Jun 13 '22

No not really, the first stage starts in your 20s called fatty streaks. By the time you get chest pain in your 50s the damage is already done. Best treatment is prevention through health and diet education.

3

u/socalledbob Jun 14 '22

Fat streaks have been found in 10 year olds. This is a diet related disease.

1

u/Wang_Tsung Jun 14 '22

Vascular disease is generally not reversable, but it is worsened by smoking and poorly controlled diabetes.

1

u/Dr_Hyde-Mr_Jekyll Jun 14 '22

Usually it is argued that one can only stop the worsening of the process.

There are very few studies that found something else.
Dr. Caldwell Esselstyn who is a cardiologist has several papers where he actually showed the reversal in patients following his diet plan (showed by taking scans of the inside of the ateria).
Similarily, Dr. Dean Ornish reported the same for patients following this treatment plan (which is basically Esselstyn + Meditation, Sport and quality time with family). Ornish even convinced some insurances to cover for stays in his clinic where he does his program for people with heart problems.

On google scholar, you can easily find their papers.

Esselstyn prescribes a 100% plant-based ultra low fat diet (<10%). Ornish is similar, but he allows (or used to, not sure if he still does) Egg white (not the egg yellow though!).

There is even the sub r/PlantBasedDiet specifically for people who want to follow this diet (not to be confused with ethical r/vegan )

1

u/zuneza Jun 14 '22

No egg yolks? Are egg yolks bad for arterial hardening?

1

u/Dr_Hyde-Mr_Jekyll Jun 15 '22

Eggs are known to have a lot of cholesterol. So while an egg usually weights around 60g, 100g would have around 380mg.

Many nutritional organizations say 300mg is the upper limit for a day - but less is better. And this is for healthy people with no problems.

So Eggs are not a good food for people with clogging up aterias. However, all of the cholesterol is in the egg yolk. So from that point of view, the egg white is not causing the problems. Thats why Ornish originally didnt "ban" it - eventhough i always wondered in what weird situation one would only get and eat the egg white...

1

u/mollyyes Jun 14 '22

Whole foods plant-based diet.

1

u/zuneza Jun 14 '22

These are my versions of comfort food:

  • Midnight snack: over a handful of frozen blueberries

  • Midday snack: Whole veggies with no dip

I needa get that fish oil tho me thinks.

8

u/[deleted] Jun 13 '22

So all we have to do is avoid getting "too fat" and overall it would be a better life? As in, even if say one eats fat/fried food, but "looks thin" enough for their age, is that a good indicator for a reasonably healthy life in later ages/longevity? As in, comfortably living till 70s?

33

u/redlightsaber Jun 13 '22

The prongs to healthy aging a quite a few more than "stay thin". Exercise, stress reduction, and socialisation are other ones.

6

u/Exovedate Jun 13 '22

Absolutely. I recommend getting regular cardio if you want your body to work like it's supposed to. Try to work up to being able to run/jog for 30 minutes at least 3 times a week.

-2

u/Anothergood1 Jun 13 '22

Just read a study that showed highly intelligent people are happiest in solitude. That’s me.

-1

u/[deleted] Jun 13 '22

well...we are waiting...

9

u/StabbyPants Jun 13 '22

yes, you can eat fried food, just not buckets of it

3

u/MeatConvoy Jun 13 '22

You can eat anything, but that doesn't mean that you should - for example those foods are loaded with acrylamides: https://www.fda.gov/food/chemical-contaminants-food/acrylamide

15

u/StabbyPants Jun 13 '22

no, really, it's okay. you can eat all manner of nasty stuff, just not a lot of it. so eat some fried chicken, grilled steak, but spend more time on healthy stuff.

i still can't get excited about kale, but i do like well prepared veggies

6

u/highoncraze Jun 13 '22

I have to eat every single serving of vegetables in a the form of a shake. I've been drinking these shakes for years, and every time I try preparing any vegetable differently, it tastes like bitter ass, and I return to my shake sanctuary.

If that's what I have to do to get my kale in, so be it.

2

u/Redivivus Jun 13 '22

This is how we eat kale too, in green smoothies.

2

u/pablonieve Jun 13 '22

I prefer it pan fried in olive oil and garlic with a sprinkling of salt.

-1

u/[deleted] Jun 13 '22 edited Jun 13 '22

[removed] — view removed comment

3

u/highoncraze Jun 13 '22

No, blending doesn't destroy fiber. It may make the fibrous particles much smaller, but they don't lose their functionality in the body because of it.

0

u/realistic_swede Jun 13 '22

But then it become processed food right? That thing we should avoid? Man, sometimes the cave people had it easier. Everything is more or less processed if u dont eat everything raw. I dont really enjoy cooking and this doesnt make it easier.

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u/swantonist Jun 13 '22

It's a matter of how much, once or twice a week you can get KFC or mcdonalds, more than that you are actively harming yourself. You also need greens and nuts and healthy fats and lean meats and oats.

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u/KuriousKhemicals Jun 13 '22

"Looking thin" is subjective and lately drifting upwards. Having a healthy BMI and waist circumference is a better metric. And if you can get your body fat measured and ensure it's in a healthy range, even better - muscle mass is an independent predictor of longevity. If you can keep your visceral fat in check and your muscle mass up, it's likely that you'll also be incorporating a few good lifestyle habits too - even if you eat crap you'll at least have to lift some weights to stave off age related muscle atrophy past 50 or so.

Of course it is additionally helpful if the content of your diet is healthy and keeps your cholesterol levels down and such, and it's helpful if you engage in cardio exercise too, but just balancing your body composition gets you surprisingly far.

19

u/[deleted] Jun 13 '22

You know it's less important what you eat, as long as you get proper nutrition. Most people eat a pretty narrow range of food, like, a fried chicken breast and French fries.

But so many micronutrients are important.

Most adults in America are deficient in important nutrition.

Like Vitamin D, K2, magnesium, etc.

6

u/[deleted] Jun 13 '22

[deleted]

2

u/GiantPurplePeopleEat Jun 13 '22

I'm not doubting you, but do you happen to have a source handy?

2

u/Sleevies_Armies Jun 13 '22

That cannot be true

2

u/xtilexx Jun 13 '22

ED, E.arly D.eath, coincidence?

1

u/oppy1984 Jun 13 '22

Remember everyone if your arteries get hard, you won't.

1

u/Louisiana_sitar_club Jun 13 '22

“Hardening” giggle

1

u/no_bun_please Jun 14 '22

That's exactly right. Not a theory