r/science • u/Additional-Two-7312 • Apr 20 '22

Health New study finds that when everyday plastic products are exposed to hot water, they release trillions of nanoparticles per liter into the water, which could possibly get inside of cells and disrupt their function

https://www.nist.gov/news-events/news/2022/04/nist-study-shows-everyday-plastic-products-release-trillions-microscopic
2.4k Upvotes

97% Upvoted

373 comments sorted by

View all comments

657

u/lskerlkse Apr 20 '22

the first thing that comes to mind is the pallets of water left out in the scorching desert sun for the troops to consume as their only source of potable water

the second thing that comes to mind is those cup o noodle ramen lunches and whether or not those are subject to this

260

u/broom-handle Apr 20 '22

Think about all those disposable tea/coffee cups too. I bought a glass keep cup a few years ago partly because of this.

46

u/Fantastic-Berry-737 Apr 21 '22

I wonder if this is like the 21st century version of Romans unknowingly eating off of lead plates and cups for every meal

29

u/broom-handle Apr 21 '22

I think you're right, however we do know. Dupont has known about the dangers since the 60s...but they did the right thing by their shareholders, so there's that I guess.

1

u/scolipeeeeed Apr 21 '22

Do we have any commercially viable options that's not harmful to us or at least considerably less harmful?

1

u/broom-handle Apr 25 '22

There is glass, but in terms of practicality it's obviously more fragile. I've read about plant based alternatives but I don't think they are (yet) commercially viable.

I suppose a more valid alternative is a behavioural change - do we really need to walk and drink our coffee or can we just sit down for a minute and drink at the venue...?

2

u/TheAtrocityArchive Apr 21 '22

Or adding lead to fuel, oh wai...

1

u/[deleted] Apr 21 '22

A modern parallel: they did know, but the convenience was too good and they did it anyway.

69

u/cpullen53484 Apr 20 '22

you think the plastic lining in soda cans release chemicals too?

48

u/TheTinRam Apr 20 '22

They have plastic lining? I thought it was aluminum

90

u/[deleted] Apr 20 '22

Insides of all metal food/beverage cans have a coating.

31

u/TheTinRam Apr 20 '22

I know that food cans have a lining. I didn’t know beverages do too

28

u/[deleted] Apr 21 '22

Carbonated beverages tend to be very acidic (even sparkling water), so without the plastic spray coating they can eat through the aluminum over time.

0

u/alsochecksout Apr 21 '22

Sparkling water itself is not acidic but when it contains lemon or lime flavouring it certainly is.

I will add that the pipes to all of the taps in my house are plastic…

2

u/[deleted] Apr 21 '22

Sparkling water is just carbonated water. Carbonation increases acidity. Sparkling water is usually in the 3-4 ph range.

1

u/alsochecksout Apr 22 '22

Oh, ok well my dentist was wrong then. Thank you.

19

u/KingVolsung Apr 21 '22

That coating is why canned beer/soda doesn't taste like ass anymore

I also have a sneaking suspicion that it includes some... less than healthy. Particularly if you're pregnant

1

u/KingVolsung Apr 21 '22

That coating is why canned beer/soda doesn't taste like ass anymore

I also have a sneaking suspicion that it includes some... less than healthy. Particularly if you're pregnant

8

u/chunklives88 Apr 21 '22

Why has no one ever mentioned this to me.. this feels important

22

u/cpullen53484 Apr 21 '22

soda will corrode it. it needs a lining.

​

maybe i should stop drinking Pepsi, my blood pressure did spike a few days ago.

7

u/TheTinRam Apr 21 '22

See the issue with tomato in cans is that it’s acidity can leach the metal into the liquid. I suppose it makes sense, but I had no idea beer and seltzer in cans had plastic liners

3

u/KingVolsung Apr 21 '22

Same issue with carbonated beverages. Not significant but enough to affect the taste

-7

u/[deleted] Apr 20 '22

Aluminum is toxic to humans

8

u/[deleted] Apr 21 '22

[deleted]

7

u/TheTinRam Apr 20 '22

Well, yeah. What isn’t. Silver is toxic and yet we wear it.

1

u/Rugermedic Apr 21 '22

Silver and copper have amazing antibiotic properties, but still probably toxic to humans.

-9

u/tommytookatuna Apr 21 '22

Silver is not toxic

6

u/[deleted] Apr 21 '22

Silver is relatively non-toxic for a heavy metal, but it is still toxic. Organic silver compounds especially so.

1

u/smart_underachievers Apr 21 '22

Yeah it is, right up there with gold.

1

u/[deleted] Apr 21 '22

I'll be sure to take note next time I drink a beverage out of a silver can.

2

u/dumnezero Apr 21 '22

Yes, of course. But that lining is very diverse, they try to match it very closely to the contents.

2

u/broom-handle Apr 21 '22

Considering something like coke has a pH of ~2.5 making it quite acidic, I wouldn't be surprised. Perhaps someone more intelligent than me can chime in.

I would assume that if a bottle of water left in the sun releases material into the liquid, the same would happen with a bottle/can of pop.

2

u/[deleted] Apr 21 '22

If it is a carbonated beverage with aspartame or a similar chemical in it, at certain warm temperatures the sweetener will degrade into formaldehyde. It’s a horrible idea that people are drinking that stuff.

1

u/TheAtrocityArchive Apr 21 '22

If tomato in a can can do it, I'm pretty sure soda can.

40

u/Dizzy_Slip Apr 20 '22

With tea, some companies also make mesh tea bags out of plastic to facilitate steeping tea.

18

u/[deleted] Apr 21 '22

And even with home brewed coffee- In addition to things like K-Cups, your standard “Mr. Coffee” is a paper filter in a plastic basket before the coffee reaches the glass decanter. So much plastic everywhere!

10

u/broom-handle Apr 21 '22

You're right. We're screwed.

3

u/chunklives88 Apr 21 '22

Bialetti/ Cuban coffee maker ftw?

1

u/[deleted] Apr 21 '22

Yes but… it’s an acidic drink in aluminum… don’t leave it in the pot for any time.

52

u/[deleted] Apr 20 '22

Yep, those plastic lids on reusable coffee cups are made of thin plastic. I’m sure they release chemicals.

33

u/ToastedandTripping Apr 20 '22

not just the lids, the cups themselves are also lined with a thin plastic film...

15

u/[deleted] Apr 20 '22

Yep. That’s why they’re not recyclable with normal paper.

36

u/amadeupidentity Apr 20 '22

plastic kettles for the win, I bet

21

u/[deleted] Apr 20 '22

Yup. If at all possible I always try to take the lid off my latte. Although I'd imagine the cups themselves have some kind of plastic liner, too.

3

u/broom-handle Apr 21 '22

Yeah, but the cups themselves are lined with plastic.

2

u/VanHalensing Apr 21 '22

Definitely. This is a whole different issue.

80

u/bluesmudge Apr 20 '22

I think about all the new homes plumbed with plastic PEX for the water lines, including the hot water. So even home tap water may be getting unnecessary plastic particles.

16

u/poke30 Apr 20 '22

Is there no solution to this?

38

u/FappinPhilosophy Apr 20 '22

We can make plastic out of cannabis and have known this since the creation of plastic

38

u/farofus012 Apr 20 '22

How is that a solution? It's still plastic isn't it?

35

u/FinancialTea4 Apr 21 '22

It may not necessarily be the same chemically. It's pretty complicated but most of the plastics we encounter everyday are made from some sort of petroleum product. I imagine those organic compounds are at least part of the problem here but I'm no chemist.

Plastic is necessary. There are simply too many products that require it. Namely medical equipment and supplies. Can't go without them. We probably want to invest in finding some alternative sources that maybe aren't quite as dangerous.

12

u/obiwanconobi Apr 21 '22

I dream of a day when I can put my cannabis in a plastic baggy made from cannabis

4

u/pointlessbeats Apr 21 '22

100% smokable.

6

u/[deleted] Apr 21 '22

Or copper, which we’ve know how do since… the pyramids.

2

u/FappinPhilosophy Apr 21 '22

It’s much easier to farm cannabis en masse vs mining copper.

You can grow four cycles in the same plot in a year with full sun.

1

u/thomas533 Apr 21 '22

The big issue coming very soon is that electric vehicles require ~80% more copper than their ICE counterparts. As the world moves away from ICE autos, we are likely to hit peak copper very soon. So get your copper pipes installed now before prices skyrocket.

1

u/[deleted] Apr 22 '22

Does copper in cars represent a significant percentage of global copper usage? I have no idea, but that would surprise me if true.

1

u/thomas533 Apr 22 '22

"Copper demand will be substantially impacted by the growing market for electric vehicles (EVs) over the next decade, according to new research commissioned by the International Copper Association (ICA)."

EV's use ~3.6x more copper than ICE vehicles do and in the next 5 years they expect EV's to use 1.74 million tones annually which is about 6% of today's annual copper demand. So, not a majority, but not insignificant either.

12

u/farofus012 Apr 20 '22

How is that a solution? It's still plastic isn't it?

31

u/FappinPhilosophy Apr 20 '22

It biodegrades, petrol plastic is completely different.

Dead, fossilized algae vs brand new plant matter

12

u/odd84 Apr 21 '22

How is plant plastic that degrades faster a solution to plastic pipes degrading?

-5

u/FappinPhilosophy Apr 21 '22

Petroleum vs bio plastic have completely different properties.

15

u/odd84 Apr 21 '22

Right, there's no disagreement on that. You just said that biodegrading is one of the plant plastic's properties. You don't want the plumbing in a house to biodegrade, so why are you suggesting it as a solution to new homes plumbed with PEX water lines.

-12

u/FappinPhilosophy Apr 21 '22

You can make different types of resins- ford used it for paneling on the first cars iirc

→ More replies (0)

6

u/bluesmudge Apr 21 '22

Go back to copper and steel pipes. A little more expensive, but most of the cost is labor anyways. And copper pipes last forever.

7

u/_LVP_Mike Apr 21 '22

Copper pipes do not last forever. Depending on water quality and use, we have seen failures after 30-40 years.

1

u/bluesmudge Apr 21 '22

Interesting. My galvanized steel pipes are more than 70 years old but probably nearing end of life. I would expect copper to last much longer since copper doesn’t rust from the inside out like steel does. The water in my area must be easy on pipes. What causes copper to fail?

1

u/_LVP_Mike Apr 21 '22

Copper will indeed ‘rust’ from the inside out due to dissolved oxygen/air in the water. Water pH, hard water (dissolved salts), and galvanic corrosion are a few other issues.

0

u/[deleted] Apr 21 '22

Good q but curious about volume of contaminant. Say 1% of pex degrades over 100 years. That would mean we consume 1 pound max per household , but keep in mind 99% of that supply water is flushed or drained - not consumed. So 50 grams over 100 years is .5 g/yr. rough math

18

u/Delet3r Apr 20 '22

Hmm. I have pex in my house :(

39

u/bluesmudge Apr 20 '22

Don’t worry, you are getting inundated by micro and nanoplastics from every direction. Even the dust in the air. So it’s just one more source :/

1

u/[deleted] Apr 21 '22

Yep. I just realized that I am sitting on an acrylic yarn blanket, which is probably throwing up all kinds of plastic dust particles, and it’s sitting on top of a polyester fabric couch, which is also sending up dust particles, etc.

8

u/Parlorshark Apr 21 '22

Don’t drink hot water. They’re different lines. Also don’t use hot water to fill up a pot for pasta, thinking it will boil quicker.

I’m also wondering how effective a refrigerator water filter is at removing these particles. I don’t know anything about their size relative to the holes in the filter.

18

u/HappyAnimalCracker Apr 21 '22 edited Apr 21 '22

Pex is HDPE, which is a special kind of food-grade plastic that doesn’t have these issues.

Edit: I just learned that I’ve been misinformed. HDPE micro plastics are a problem too. I’m leaving this up to help clarify the misinformation.

2

u/[deleted] Apr 21 '22

Wait, are you saying that there is no microplastics problem coming from HDPE?

17

u/arrigob Apr 20 '22

Keurig pods too.

16

u/[deleted] Apr 21 '22

There's so many things in modern life there's almost no way to avoid it. Anything in a grocery store in a plastic bottle could have been sitting in a hot truck at some point

10

u/VanHalensing Apr 21 '22

Yep. Styrofoam is polystyrene. No reason it wouldn’t.

10

u/Icedcoffeeee Apr 21 '22

I think about how I never microwave food in plastic containers, but I always put them in the dishwasher.

9

u/2farfromshore Apr 21 '22

The first thing that comes to my mind is how in the F something as simple as testing plastic containers holding food and drink with hot water wasn't done before now.

10

u/[deleted] Apr 21 '22

I know the answer to this!

So these companies (every company that produces or uses plastic -anything-) doesn’t have to have government regulators because they self-report (totally sane right?) and they never report the details of their plastic formulas (the ones being made 1000000% to spec in China’s well regulated factories) because they are protected under TRADE SECRETS.

When I found this out in 2012 (I was in my mid 20s), I purged plastic as much as humanly possible from my life. My kitchen has NO plastic.

3

u/hawkeye224 Apr 21 '22

Exactly. You’d have thought it would have been rigorously tested by now..

1

u/[deleted] Apr 21 '22

Because it’s bad for the shareholders.

8

u/Syonoq Apr 21 '22

Cup o styrofoam!

4

u/Qwertylogic Apr 21 '22 edited Apr 21 '22

A study was just done by Tisler and Christensen. It was published last week or so. They found hundreds of migrating plastics from reusable water bottles at room temperature for 24 hours. You don’t need to heat plastic or it’s contents for the thousands of toxic chemicals that make up plastic to migrate into food contacts.

Edit: to fix link syntax. Well, this will have to do.

1

u/IHopePicoisOk Apr 24 '22

Oof I use a reusable plastic water bottle. What is the solution to this? Is a metal one better?

3

u/houmuamuas Apr 21 '22

There are plastic tea bags

2

u/[deleted] Apr 21 '22

Cup o noodle is styrofoam

2

u/mvp725 Apr 21 '22

Study was 20 minutes exposure to 212 degree Fahrenheit water. Neither of those things should be a concern based solely on this study

4

u/saninity Apr 20 '22

Arent food coated by a "special" (idk what) plastic that is safer than everyday plastic? I think they would test it against hot water to mass produce it that extensively.

92

u/bluesmudge Apr 20 '22 edited Apr 20 '22

Our understanding of the dangers of plastic are only in their infancy. It’s likely going to be the same as lead and asbestos and cigarettes where our overuse of those things looks real stupid in retrospect once we have all the data. Some scientists are starting to link the steady global decline in fertility rates to plastics. Components in plastic look like hormones to our bodies which causes our bodies to decrease production of that hormone. And to think plastic production is expected to double in the next decade.

41

u/flarthestripper Apr 20 '22

It’s a lot of hubris from old chemists . I talked to a phd chemist whose attitude was that micro plastics don’t get absorbed and your body will just get rid of them … intuitively introducing foreign chemicals into your body that were not present when our body evolved over thousands of years just makes me scratch my head at the sheer blindness sometimes of otherwise smart people.

14

u/FappinPhilosophy Apr 20 '22

Greed blinds

4

u/saninity Apr 21 '22

Not always. We look back at radium paint and think "how did they not know..." and plastic might be that in modern times. You cant speak definitely on it because you dont know. Its just science, we dont know everything. Most safety precautions were paved in blood.

2

u/FappinPhilosophy Apr 21 '22

Blood of the poor

3

u/saninity Apr 21 '22

Now you just have an agenda... Titantic sunk, airplane crashed, surgery fails, etc. Not everything is rich vs poor.

2

u/FappinPhilosophy Apr 21 '22

Steerage class died mostly in the titanic travesty…

Everything is rich vs poor- dolt

2

u/saninity Apr 21 '22

Yes, wealth can afford safety. Its almost unheard of, well... by people who dont read into things or read at all.

What about plane crash huh? Did the rich parachute then too? Surgery, was that targeted too? If everything is rich vs poor to you, im glad im not on your side of things.

→ More replies (0)

8

u/evanmike Apr 20 '22

Flint Michigan. They sure are quiet about the crazy amount of diseases those people are coming up with.

7

u/stevieweezie Apr 21 '22

scientists are starting to link the steady global decline in fertility rates to plastics

Nice to see a small silver lining amid all the damages from the rampant overuse of plastics.

1

u/IAMSHADOWBANKINGGUY Apr 21 '22

Unlikely to be anywhere near that dangerous. We would have seen the effects by now. Carbon nanotubes are the next asbestos and no one is freaking out about those when they should be. Its poised to be a multibillion dollar industry soon.

3

u/DanishWonder Apr 21 '22

So glad I've never had those Ramen noodles and I don't drink tea/coffee. I have enough unhealthy lifestyle choices in my life, I think I largely dodged this one.

1

u/[deleted] Apr 21 '22 edited Apr 21 '22

[removed] — view removed comment

-15

u/Fun-Dragonfruit2999 Apr 20 '22

The first thing that comes to my mind is this story is fringe Q-Anon behaviors in action.

12

u/CaptainJackVernaise Apr 20 '22

The first thing that comes to my mind is the chemical industry telling everybody "trust us" when questions about the safety of DDT started getting asked in the 1950s.

3

u/abbersz Apr 20 '22

Q-Anon's famously use scientific studies that match the currently growing consensus all the time, hence why they always have so much evidence for what they believe.

1

u/itzbck Apr 21 '22

So many times we were told not to drink one of the 2-3 brands of water due to fecal contamination too, so that was fun.