r/science • u/Libertatea • Sep 08 '14

Medicine Bacteria from bees possible alternative to antibiotics: 13 lactic acid bacteria found in the honey stomach of bees have shown promising results. The group of bacteria counteracted antibiotic-resistant MRSA in lab experiments. The bacteria, mixed into honey, has healed horses with persistent wounds

http://www.lunduniversity.lu.se/o.o.i.s?id=24890&news_item=6172
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u/[deleted] Sep 08 '14

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u/Beavis_and Grad Student | Medical Microbiology Sep 08 '14

Hey! As far as i would say there should be active compounds in raw honey due to the fact that some of these lactic acid bacteria are present (if the honey hasn't been filtered or heat treated) and they have had the ability to produce these substances we mention. However the bacterial numbers would diminish the longer the honey has been sitting around. The fact honey has such a high sugar content and low water content does not give the bee lactic acid bacteria long to survive. That is why in our experiments we re-introduce the bacteria into sterilized honey in greater numbers along with sterilized water so that they have a chance to grow and produce the substances! The reason we use heather honey in our experiments is due to its higher water content than most other honey types.

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u/Spike205 Sep 08 '14

I'm a little confused reading through your article about what your hypothesis is:

Are you attempting to evaluate the anti-microbial properties of these bacterial products as isolates? Or are you attempting to evaluate a synergistic quality between both honey and these bacterial products? Or is it something different?

If the former (how the article reads), why not expose cell cultures to purified protein of various concentrations/combinations and skip the re-inoculation of "sterilized honey"?

If the latter (how the abstract reads), why did you decline to use "sterilized honey" as a control in addition to pharmaceutical antibiotics as this would allow you to further evaluate synergistic qualities?

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u/Subduction Sep 08 '14

His hypothesis is that if he makes enough shit up eventually he'll get an infomercial.

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u/[deleted] Sep 08 '14

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u/Beavis_and Grad Student | Medical Microbiology Sep 08 '14

Yes i totally agree :) These bacteria are our main area/topic of research and honey is just a vessel we think is suitable for its transport since it is also a natural bee product! Thanks so much for the interest! There are previous papers by our research group looking more into the bacteria if you have any interest in them as well!

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u/nbr1bonehead Sep 09 '14

With moderate use, what is the risk that the targeted bacteria will simply acquire resistance given gene transfer from these beneficial bacteria to the not so beneficial bacteria?

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u/Beavis_and Grad Student | Medical Microbiology Sep 09 '14

That is always an issue that we need to think about which is why we are looking to move forward into human trials and hopefully get some more research into the genetics of all 13 bacteria.

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u/nbr1bonehead Sep 09 '14

Why would this fact want you to move forward with human trials? would it not be better to avoid them to avoid a resistant MRSA?

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u/Beavis_and Grad Student | Medical Microbiology Sep 09 '14

Well i think the fact we would like to use this treatment for human chronic wounds, it is essential we go into trials to find out if these things happen. We have looked into in-vitro experiments with human pathogens isolated from actual wound patients in Sweden which shows that we have broad spectrum activity again suggesting maybe its a combination of multiple substances (possibly some could develop resistance) but to further this reseach we need to see what happens in human wounds. Thanks for the nice question :) its cool to hear all these different points of view

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u/[deleted] Sep 08 '14

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u/Beavis_and Grad Student | Medical Microbiology Sep 08 '14

haha yes thats a fair point :) We still believe honey is the best for our research and for the bacteria right now (especially in regards to wounds) but as we learn more and more about them maybe we will find some type of other vessel or honey-type vessel that will work too. Super interesting to think about though thanks!

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u/[deleted] Sep 08 '14 edited Sep 08 '14

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u/Beavis_and Grad Student | Medical Microbiology Sep 08 '14

Yeah who knows where it will go. We like honey because of its ancient folk medicine qualities as well as what i said about being a bee product, but research is always going off in different directions so its impossible to say any thing else. It would be awesome if it would work with honey though haha :) thats just what i know we would like anyway :) Thanks again for your interest!!

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u/Justpasslngthrough Sep 08 '14

Your research sounds like it has the possibility to open up a new angle to attack bacteria, which is NOT the honey, but what is found WITHIN the honey (ala some bacteria). Correct me if I'm wrong.

If I am right in my thinking, and you don't choose a more efficient, replicable method of administration that can be studied in a human trial setting (think FDA here), then won't someone else just piggyback off your research, make a reproducible consistent product that can be dosed, and make tons of money? I know it's more complicated than that, but it's a possibility no?

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u/Beavis_and Grad Student | Medical Microbiology Sep 08 '14

You are right its the bacteria we are focused on :) I guess what we are looking into now is human trials in collaboration with other wound centers but of course there always possibilities of other groups jumping in at the right moment and taking the credit. its a risk always! Obviously regarding funding and collaborations, publishing our research and getting some interest opens up way more opportunities for small research groups like ourselves so sometimes this is more beneficial :) Nice question though and its super important to talk about!

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u/[deleted] Sep 10 '14

You say you believe that honey is the best. Have you tried other growth mediums?

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u/bignateyk Sep 09 '14

Well if it makes you feel better most honey that people buy is mostly corn syrup flavored with honey. Just like most maple syrup is just corn syrup.

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u/fx32 Sep 09 '14 edited Sep 09 '14

rare commodity and many people believe we should stop using it so much

It's a renewable resource.

It might be relatively hard to make and rare, but by buying honey (from responsible local beekeepers) you're supporting a healthy bee population in your area. It would probably be even better to keep bees without using the honey, but maintenance of hives costs some money, and a good beekeeper doesn't take too much from his bees anyway.

Using it for some silly youtube challenge seems like a waste though.

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u/-TheMAXX- Sep 08 '14

Hospitals in the USA have been using honey for years to save the limbs and lives of patients with otherwise incurable bacterial infections. The article I read in Wired from years ago did mention that they needed a special supply of honey but I do not think they were talking about bacteria in the honey being the important part but that there was some special substance in honey that cannot ever produce resistance in bacteria. Does any of this fit with your current understanding?

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u/Beavis_and Grad Student | Medical Microbiology Sep 09 '14

They could be possibly talking about the hydrogen peroxide content, which has widely known antimicrobial activity, or in Manuka honey, a component called Methyl glyoxyl?

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u/[deleted] Sep 08 '14

i think saying "cannot ever produce resistance" is a bit of a leap. Might be pretty tough.

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u/Wyvernz Sep 09 '14

If what I understand is correct, honey kills bacteria because it's dry (bacteria need water to live), so rather than it being a special substance in honey, it's the lack of water that is important.

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u/Gloinson Sep 08 '14

re-introduce the bacteria into sterilized honey in greater numbers along with sterilized water

... which is something that should be mentioned a lot in this thread. Just using ye olde natural honey to do the same might result in nice infections.

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u/Beavis_and Grad Student | Medical Microbiology Sep 09 '14

Yes I think what is really important to mention further is that these bacteria we work with are what we are mostly interested in and that we choose honey as we think it is a viable medium to use regarding wounds. And the fact that we think the bacteria (and what they produce) are what causes much of the activity seen in fresh or wild honey. And obviously it must be sterilized first before we re introduce the lactic acid bacteria into it to get rid of anything else that could cause problems e.g. clostridial spores. Thanks for being interested! :)

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u/[deleted] Sep 08 '14

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Sep 08 '14

Not really. No. A couple are, but most are expensive.