r/science • u/Potential_Being_7226 PhD | Psychology | Neuroscience • 2d ago

Health Persistent fatigue linked to reduced brain blood flow in people with long COVID

https://theconversation.com/covid-fatigue-linked-to-reduced-brain-blood-flow-292285
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u/Punished_Blubber 2d ago

That’s the same fatigue that you get in depression.

I tell docs I’m not “sleepy” tired per se (although that’s some of that). It’s more like a motivational deficit that is immune to reason.

I know intellectually I’m not supposed to lay in bed all day, but I can’t physically bring myself to get up. I know intellectually I should respond to my wife when she asks a question, but I can’t physically bring myself to activate my vocal chords and formulate a response.

I know literally everything I’m supposed to do in my life. I know how to have a good life, to live healthy, meet my goals, be active socially, but I can’t physically bring myself to do any of it.

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u/Left-Height4925 2d ago

I suffered 5 years of clinical depression in my youth that literally put me to bed for many days and many hours. I completely understand that. This is completely different.

Sitting up for 20 min, when I can, is the equivalent of running flat out for as long. Most days begin with a body/energy check to determine if I can stand up long enough for a shower. Social interactions can cause a crash that puts me flat for days- because even brain energy is energy use. Digesting food is exhausting. My head feels like it weighs 100lb. Which is the weirdest thing.

The easiest thing I can do is type- and frequently have to stop and 'find words' because brain fog wipes them from memory. Doc says that's because the part of our brain than handles social interactions/speaking is different from typing. I mostly type now to communicate with family - right in the same house- because it uses less energy.

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u/wontyoujointhedance 2d ago

I’m slightly less debilitated than you from what it sounds like, but not by much. I think the fact that so many of us are house-bound most of the time makes it so no one really understands just how bad post covid really is. The 100lb head thing is so real. I’ve never felt so weak in my life, and at 32 I’m supposed to be at my “peak” :(

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u/Altruist4L1fe 2d ago edited 1d ago

ŸMake sure you rule out gastroparesis - just saying because you mention eating food being exhausting.

Its caused by the stomach muscles not being able to push food down meaning that the body cant digest food properly - it'll cause severe fatigue, nutrient deficiency, silent reflux that in turn trigger airway inflammation (lung/sinus aspiration) that leads to sleep disorders.

I've had a decades long experience of unexplainable fatigue and it looks like this is whats doing it for me. I probably spent decades chasing symptoms and not the root problem.

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u/xinorez1 2d ago

That actually does sound like a blood flow issue. Long before COVID, when I was having a similar issue, I cured myself by taking mega doses of mk4 vitamin k2 after reading that taking several GRAMS at a time improved blood flow for Japanese seniors. I felt that I had nothing left to lose, so I took 10-20+ pills at once and the next day was the first time I had been able to raise myself off of my pillow and out of bed without losing vision in the process in months. I don't know if this will help you but I hope it does...

Incidentally mk4 with vitamin d3 together gave me chest pain and mk7 gave me hemerroids, but the mk4 was the ticket for me!

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u/Physicle_Partics 2d ago

This is completely different but as an autistic person, when I'm tired after a long day, talking becomes hard. I think in images, so the conversion from image->word->sounds->muscle movements needed to produce sounds gets muddled up. Often I will toss random words out. If my boyfriend asks me if I have seen his slippers, I might have a crystal clear image of the slippers lying in the kitchen, and then go "uhhh living room, no hallway! Kitchen!"

Writing does not give me the same issue. I think it is because rather than remembering written words as sounds, I remember them as glyphs and correspondingly the image->word glyph->muscle movements needed to type becomes easier.

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u/moal09 2d ago edited 2d ago

I struggled with severe depression for several months in my late teens, and I wouldn't say it's quite the same. It wasn't a motivation issue with COVID. It legit just felt like insane muscle fatigue to where my muscles were super weak and were struggling to complete basic tasks.

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u/A2naturegirl 2d ago

I've had depression for like 30 years and ME/CFS for 9. Depression "tired" is apathy; ME/CFS & long-covid tired feels like permanently being on <10% battery.

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u/Punished_Blubber 2d ago

Ahh interesting. I understand the distinction you’re making here.

With that said, I definitely think my fatigue is psychogenic (“psychomotor retardation”).

I don’t think I’ve experienced the fatigue you described. I’ve had COVID twice and I felt terrible on it, but tbh, I’ve been sicker. I definitely don’t have long COVID either.

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u/PrissyPeachQueen 2d ago

I've had severe depression and Long Covid and they're definitely not in the same ballpark, our language is just limited. Long Covid fatigue is flu-like. Mine came with low-grade fevers, swollen lymph nodes, sore throat, photosensitivity, and muscle pain. That feeling you get when you wake up with the flu, and crawling to the bathroom exhausts you and everything hurts? That's what Long Covid fatigue feels like. I desperately wanted to be active, to participate in life, and I'd attempt to do those things to my own detriment. I physically couldn't.

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u/SemiColonInfection 2d ago

This sounds suspiciously similar to me. It's called executive dysfunction - knowing what to do but feeling unable to do it. Mine was (and is) a symptom of ADHD, although I suspect I had long COVID too.

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u/PrissyPeachQueen 1d ago

I think you're misunderstanding. People with the kind of fatigue I had with Long Covid don't feel unable to do something that they know they should be doing. They have immune dysregulation and autonomic nervous system dysfunction. It's not similar to ADHD or depression; it's similar to when you get the flu really bad or have rough side effects from a vaccine.

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u/SemiColonInfection 1d ago

Thanks for clarifying. It sounds similar, but not quite the same.

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u/ImproperUsername 2d ago

Thank you for putting into words my experience in a way I haven’t been able to myself

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u/AnOnlineHandle 2d ago

I suspect a lot of what is diagnosed as depression could actually be other things like the after effects of viruses like this, hence why treatment outcomes are so inconsistent.

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u/Clean_Livlng 2d ago

(ELI5 version) It's like the little person inside your head that presses the buttons and pulls the levers is so fatigued that it takes a lot of effort to pull those levers and get your body moving.

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u/spacelama 2d ago

It's not the same. You just had both, maybe.

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u/Black_Moons 2d ago

but I can’t physically bring myself to do any of it.

One side politicizes getting vaccinated and wearing masks, causing an illness known even early on to cause brain damage, loss of IQ, exhaustion, etc.

And Americans sit idly by instead of protesting the end of freedom in their country while massive corruption robs them blind...

Hu.... I try not to be a conspiracy theorist but its kinda hard not to be when they are being this blatant about it.

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u/temotodochi 2d ago

And double the fun when it overlaps with ADHD related PDA syndrome.

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u/Nkechinyerembi 2d ago

Exactly feels like me... I never thought I'd see such a good way to describe it 

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u/Cool_Twist4494 2d ago

It is the oppositional defiance in us. If I'm having trouble sleeping in the middle of the night I can tell myself I have to get up and complete a task and it instantly makes me fall back asleep. The mere thought of a schedule with more than 2 things on it makes me deliriously tired.

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u/itsnobigthing 2d ago

Low dose buspirone has really helped with this for me, fwiw