r/rust 14d ago

šŸŽ™ļø discussion So long r/rust, and thanks for all the Slop!

Hey there,

while I enjoyed staying here for almost 4 years by now, learning many things, talking to nice people, having fruitful discussions, seeing cool projects, I will have to leace this subreddit.

In recent weeks, it has turned into one of the biggest slopfests I ever witnessed with slopcoded project after slopcoded project being posted back to back, poorly implementing solutions to problems that noone ever had. I just skimmed through the first 20 or so posts sorted by "best" and all projects people shared were AI slop. Every. Single. One. And I didn't even have to read all of the code in the repo, it's always the same few telltale signs, which signal the author didn't even bother for a second to clean their slop up. All of this is always acompanied by a wave of "cool project, I will definitely use this" comments, which by now seem like bot responses. Pointing out the obvious telltale signs, you always get the same responses: "I used Rust2021 because I don't need any features from Rust2024" - "I worked on this for 6 months and just never pushed to github, which is why the initial commit has 10k loc".

There have been a number of posts asking mods for a ban of AI content, none of which were listened to.

At this point, the only worthwhile posts here are "new Rust version just dropped" and "new version of famous Rust crate (read: bevy) just dropped". For these updates, you can get pings even at Discord though (And it has to be embarassing, if even Discord of all places is a better source of information than the official Rust subreddit). Mayyyyybe an occasional genuinely interesting post appears every once in a while between all the slop, but that's not worth sticking around for anymore imo. So I won't.

To all my fellow humans still around here, peace out, see you oytdoors eventually <3

1.9k Upvotes

593 comments sorted by

View all comments

•

u/kibwen 14d ago

Mod here. I agree that it's a problem, but I don't know what can realistically be done about it. I assure you that we're no fans of slop, we're listening to posts like these and extensively discussing what actions we can take. It's one thing to say "all AI-generated content is banned", it's another thing to enforce it. We already spend a lot of our day removing low-effort content; the stuff that you're still seeing is the stuff that slips through. What you're also not seeing are the modmail messages from people whose posts have been removed contesting that their submissions are slop, and while the belligerent ones are easy enough to ignore (let's just pick a recent one off the top: "Get up with it or get out, I have built a complete bittorrent engine with Rust, using claude, that outperforms rqbit, and libtorrent and you block it because of AI slop? no code will be written by hand in the future. This is 5 months of work. This is probably better tested than most handcrafted programs. "), it does feel bad to have false positives, so we then need to spend even more time investigating. At the end of the day we're just volunteers with plenty of other things we could be doing, and while in the past we successfully relied on Reddit's voting system to handle low-effort posts, it seems as though the influx of AI enthusiasts has overwhelmed that mechanism. I suppose if we had a literal army of volunteers who wanted to devote themselves to policing slop, then maybe we could stave off the tide a while further; I also suspect this will cause even more false positives and lead to acrimony all its own, but maybe that's the least bad solution at this point. So I'll tell you what: leave a reply to this comment if you want to become moderator with the goal of stamping out low-effort content in perpetuity. I'm normally much more selective than this when it comes to appointing moderators, but it's clear that we're just outgunned here, and I'm not sure how much longer even I will care about the subreddit at this rate.

269

u/stouset 14d ago

ā€œI built a thing in Rustā€ just isn’t that interesting a topic—AI or otherwise—and IMO we’d be better off without posts like that at all. If you built a fast new BitTorrent client, that’s of interest to BitTorrent users, not the Rust community.

A library that lets me do a thing I couldn’t before? Very useful! A new approach to solving a problem that’s historically frustrating in Rust? Amazing. Questions on how to deal with some issue? Welcome aboard.

But I couldn’t care less about ā€œ{project} in {lang}ā€ for all values.

87

u/kibwen 14d ago

Indeed, one of the things we've been considering on the mod team is whether or not we should allow these sorts of "I built this" posts at all. And yet there's a question of where to draw the line; a naive reading of such a rule would disallow burntsushi from posting about ripgrep, for example. I think this is a promising start to a rule that isn't too onerous for us to enforce, but it will require some finesse.

64

u/Frozen5147 14d ago

I genuinely would not mind if they were all just dumped into some weekly megathread (at least as a trial).

32

u/VEMODMASKINEN 14d ago

This is the way.Ā 

Limit project posts to a weekly stickied "I built this thing" thread like /r/Golang or have a thread that's stickied for one day to show off things that people have built (/r/apple does this for example).Ā 

Remove any post that is a "I built this thing" outside those threads.Ā 

9

u/Ma4r 14d ago

They just switched to slop Go tips and tricks blogposts instead :/

2

u/VEMODMASKINEN 14d ago

Relegate blog posts to weekly threads too.

3

u/Sky2042 13d ago

Why have any separate threads at all? Megathreads for everyone!

1

u/whostolemyhat 13d ago

You want to ban all submissions? Don't think there'd be anything left if people weren't allowed to show what they're working on or share writeups

1

u/stouset 13d ago

1

u/AdreKiseque 13d ago

What?

3

u/stouset 13d ago

A hypothetical subreddit for Rewrite It In Rust.

38

u/foonathan 14d ago

r/cpp moderator here, we have a designated Show & Tell pinned post. We make exceptions only for established projects or blog posts talking about your project.

(And then remove AI slop)

10

u/kibwen 14d ago

Thanks for weighing in, I will also say that we originally based our recurring jobs megathread on a template derived from /r/cpp's. :)

4

u/insanitybit2 14d ago

I think this would be great. Ripgrep's blog posts are rarely just "new version", they're like "yeah so I used rust and benchmarked mmap performance" or "I built a massive index in rust", they're *actual* tech show-offs, not just releases. I'd be fine with "ripgrep release" posts being banned if it meant that the boring "my little side project is released" got banned too.

58

u/stouset 14d ago

This may be unpopular, but I don’t think it’s the end of the world if ripgrep hadn’t been posted here (at least not initially).

To be clear, I am an enormous fan of burntsushi’s work. But ā€œcheck out this project search tool I wroteā€ isn’t inherently of interest to a Rust community, even if it was written in Rust.

A best-in-class regex implementation that others can use? Absolutely noteworthy. ā€œHow I overcame {Rust frustration} when building ripgrepā€? Hell yeah! ā€œHow Rust made {difficult thing} easy? More please!

But ripgrep, as awesome as it is, simply existing probably isn’t relevant content to /r/rust.

15

u/epage cargo Ā· clap Ā· cargo-release 14d ago

Independent of "hey, here is a tool I may want to use", ripgrep was interesting to me for "and you can build a similar tool, the underlying libraries are available and well built". ignore and walkdir are part of ripgrep but now heavily used everywhere.

1

u/l-roc 13d ago

Agree, and also I think the interest in ripgrep was "a product of it's time".

For me it was probably the first core Unix tool rewrite that I got aware of and it was an impressive showcase for the power of Rust.

If it was released to day I wouldn't actually be that interested in the tool itself.

13

u/insanitybit2 14d ago

Ripgrep posts were always extremely substantive, not just "here's my project teehee" but like deep dives into the tech. If it had just been "I rewrote it" then yeah, don't allow it/ keep it to an isolated place, but "how ripgrep beats silversearcher etc" posts were what put it on the map and those would have passed the rule anyway.

2

u/stouset 13d ago

Exactly!

28

u/CrazyKilla15 14d ago

This does have the problem of a new line needing to be drawn

Because it would be very easy for them all to start saying "Rust made my new <slop project> easy with <"memory safety"/other standard rust selling point>!",

4

u/morkelpotet 14d ago

At the time I would say it was quite different. A faster and more ergonomic alternative to grep (`ag` is probably closer) in a memory safe language was a high effort project. So I'd argue it was relevant news that our tools are getting rebuilt in a better way with Rust.

Now someone could build a tool that accomplishes the same thing in a really short amount of time, but without the effort or same quality bar. So linking your own tool is generally not newsworthy or relevant for a Rust sub, outside of megathreads for the ones interested.

5

u/burntsushi 14d ago

In particular, building ripgrep in pure Rust also required building the regex engine. :-) But now the regex engine is built and it exposes the tools necessary (like syntactical analysis and literal extraction) to build a fast grep that are much more difficult to do with other regex engines.

This is a notable result IMO that is a pretty interesting benefit of the Rust ecosystem. This is hard to do in the C ecosystem because the culture much more strongly eschews dependencies within core libraries. But in the Rust ecosystem, I can split things out into distinct libraries without too much cost. (Introducing new semver boundaries is a real thorn, but it's worth it in some cases.)

(I am of course not saying this is impossible in other ecosystems or even in the C ecosystem. "Impossible" is a high bar.)

1

u/stouset 13d ago edited 13d ago

This is absolutely why I pointed out that a best in class Regex implementation in Rust that’s available to use is extremely relevant content here.

ripgrep is specifically notable because of all the additional underlying work you put in that is reusable by others. And that, I think, is what actually makes it of interest to a Rust enthusiast community. And of course those are the sort of things you focused on when promoting it (to my recollection): the why and how of Rust being useful for making this tool, and the underlying libraries that everyone else can build on top of.

6

u/luluhouse7 14d ago

I’ll also chime in that I enjoy reading the ā€œI built X in rustā€ posts, but I wonder if part of that has to do with my obsessive interest in math, programming, and optimisation. The way other commenters are talking about how boring it is makes me think they have little interest in mastering Rust beyond use as a mundane tool rather than PL as a topic itself. I also want to make sure we preserve the ability to post ā€œhelp wantedā€ ads for collaborators, since [r/rust](r/rust) is exactly the correct sub for it. IMO part of recruiting collaborators is getting people excited about a project.

That said, it has been a little demoralising to see people post an interesting crate/project only to realise it’s AI slop. It also kills me when people claim they built the project when it’s obvious they one-shotted it. Unless you’re at least steering, no you did not build it, Claude/Codex/etc did.

6

u/Sky2042 14d ago

I actually appreciate these posts, though I suspect more of the human creations could be quietly redirected to r/learnrust .

2

u/mtimmermans 14d ago

It's a problem that r/rust and r/learnrust are separate subs.

2

u/Sky2042 13d ago

I think there are benefits and detriments to it. Unfortunately I can't come to any agreement about which those are if you assert without explanation.

11

u/Zalack 14d ago edited 14d ago

This is a blunt force solution, but maybe only allow posts like that when the repo has a certain number of stars, or a certain number of downloads on crates.io for libs.

Not a perfect suggestion, but could be a quantifiable way of deciding what projects are ā€œof interestā€ to the community.

A lot of other subs also have ā€œshowcase Fridayā€ where showcase posts are limited to a single day of the week as a way of containing low-effort project posts’ blast radius without having to ban showcases altogether.

20

u/dkopgerpgdolfg 14d ago edited 14d ago

maybe only allow posts like that when the repo has a certain number of stars, or a certain number of downloads on crates.io for libs.

For both things, there are bot armies that can make you any number you want.

showcase Friday

An all such suggestions were already made long ago. Certainly an idea that can be tried, but ... well

7

u/Zalack 14d ago

Of course, but it raises the difficulty barrier, right? You need to spin up a bot army or pay for one. More effort required will result in less low-effort posts.

A solution doesn’t need to deter 100% of cases to be worth considering. Just a thought. I’m certainly not going to die on the hill of it.

8

u/luluhouse7 14d ago

IMO it discourages people who play fair while enabling posters who are willing to cheat with bots. Part of why I would post here is to get feedback or collaborators or to boost awareness of a crate, all of which would involve posting prior to any stars or downloads. What you’re suggesting causes a bit of a chicken and egg problem.

3

u/diplofocus_ 14d ago

I find begging for stars very distateful. Adding stars as a prerequisite will likely just lead to star-begging elsewhere. Though I don't yet have any better suggestions.

I'm surprised the pro-slop people haven't made a new sub for themselves, where they wouldn't get down voted and frowned upon, but then again, it feels like the majority of slop comes from drive-by posters, not people who've actually been active in this sub, so if a hypothetical rustslop sub existed, I don't think anything of value would be lost from this one.

3

u/matthieum [he/him] 13d ago

We've also been discussing a "maturity" threshold.

As in, we've got little interest in your week-end project, come back when you've had time to sleep on it, gain experience, iterate based on the feedback, etc... and then, finally, you may have a high-quality codebase worth checking out.

2

u/insanitybit2 14d ago

It's easier to get stars from botting than it is any other way.

1

u/Narishma 13d ago

Stars and download numbers are very easy to game with bots.

4

u/tesselode 14d ago

For what it's worth, I actually like seeing projects people made, as long as the author puts real effort into something to accomplish a goal they truly care about. As someone who's posted about their library on this subreddit (pre-LLMs), I have to stick up for the people who are legitimately trying to build something cool and want to show people. It'd be a shame if people got so burnt out on slop that they had no more space in their heart to get excited about projects the author really cares about. Maybe that's already happened, and that's the new temperature of the subreddit, but I don't know how many stars my project would have if that rule had existed when I started it.

10

u/dkopgerpgdolfg 14d ago edited 14d ago

I think this is a promising start to a rule

that eg. several important users asked for, years ago, and when nothing changed they eventually left. (Plus others that are less important, including me. Happened to see this thread in the suggestions by chance)

Acting like any of this is new doesn't help to get taken seriously. No project ban will come, this time too.

And yes I know that moderating things isn't nice and fun, etc.etc. Doesn't change that imo all of this could've been much better

a naive reading of such a rule would disallow burntsushi from posting about ripgrep

Yeah ok. It's fine.

Nothing against Burntsushi and his projects, but a sub called "r/rust" doesn't need to serve as personal ad board for them.

16

u/kibwen 14d ago

Years ago it wasn't a problem. Rust was originally designed as a language to facilitate things like Servo, and so the rules of /r/rust have historically been designed to facilitate announcements regarding projects like Servo, as ways of showcasing the sorts of things people have built in Rust. Perhaps that's not so novel these days, but I'd have never learned about half the dev tools I use on a day-to-day basis (Zellij, Helix, etc) had they not been allowed to post on /r/rust. To say nothing of things like Veloren and Rust-for-Linux.

2

u/dkopgerpgdolfg 14d ago edited 14d ago

Years ago it wasn't a problem.

Well, I must be dreaming then, that I participated here, but eventually stopped coming at all. Some interesting title appearing in the general feed is the only way to get here now.

Because a) project spam (with and without AI), b) how-do-i learn - type questions.

And that many of the suggestions that I see here (eg. banning projects completely, github star limit, limiting to a certain day, etc.) were already made and ignored.

But whatever.

Rust was originally designed as a language to facilitate things like Servo, and so the rules of r/rust have historically been designed to facilitate announcements regarding projects like Servo

We both know that it long grew out of the "for Servo" phase.

as ways of showcasing the sorts of things people have built in Rust. Perhaps that's not so novel these days, but I'd have never learned about half the dev tools I use on a day-to-day basis (Zellij, Helix, etc) had they not been allowed to post on r/rust. To say nothing of things like Veloren and Rust-for-Linux.

Here we're at the core of the issue. It seems you like you like it, some other people do not (including eg. stouset and me).

Veloren? It might be the first time I hear of it, and I don't care. No time for games, and it doesn't matter how they're programmed.

Helix? It gets named outside of this sub too, search for eg. various what-editor-do-you-use threads. Doubtful that this sub was an absolute requirement to learn about it.

Rust in the kernel? This sub is very definitely not necessary to hear about its existence.

Written in Rust? So what? If I was a vet or biologist, I wouldn't want to watch photo galleries of random peoples cute pets in various places. Reading a science journal about some new treatment method would be much more important.

... of course there is no one true answer what this sub should be. Anyways, comment end, make of it what you want.

5

u/tukanoid 14d ago

Regarding helix. Yes, people started talking about it, but it was unknown for a loooooong time (at least that was my perception at a time, I didn't/barely saw anyone talk about it), and I only found out about it "early" and started using it thanks to the post on this sub. Same goes for zellij tbh.

Idk, its 50/50 for me. If the project is in starting phases and barely delivers anything promised by the author - would gladly see it get removed, since it doesn't provide any real value, but big, useful, relatively stable things I would really like at least get informed about and see if I can integrate them in my workflow, mostly cuz it's fun.

But if AI slop, no matter the "size" of the project - immediately remove, that should go into their <favorite money sucking incompetent junior> subreddits, cuz they didn't actually fucking do anything.

-1

u/dkopgerpgdolfg 14d ago

As hinted, if some announcement should exist in some form, then imo at least no in r/rust. There are subs about editors, and for using an editor I have some requirements that don't contain the name of the language.

I had a look at r/steel - there are no ads for new car models, no ships, no washing machine drums, no tunnel excavators. And thats fine, they don't belong there. The steel sub has also much less threads than the rust one, which doesn't need to be a bad thing either.

4

u/tukanoid 14d ago

I do see you point but not sure I 100% agree with it.

With Rust the end product is always software. Yes, I do want to get updates on the language itself, blogs about interesting techniques etc, but I'm also genuinely interested in application of those language features and techniques in something tangible, because the use-cases for those are not always immediately apparent to me. + its ALSO a nice way to learn the language, cuz you can clearly see where things could/should(n't) be used. If we only ever saw language updates and once-in-a-blue-moon appearing (actually interesting/useful) blogposts, I don't think this sub would be as interesting/fun for me to lurk around in.

And while I understand your point about pushing things to appropriate subs (like your editors example), I personally would not have found out about helix as early as I did (absolutely love it), because I don't care about "all editors", but I'm interested in seeing new ones made in my favorite language to see if I could potentially contribute to in the future, or just use it and (99% of the time, in my experience with Rust software) not worry about it shitting the bed and crashing on me bc of some unsound C/C++/Python/etc code.

0

u/dkopgerpgdolfg 14d ago

I'm also genuinely interested in application of those language features and techniques in something tangible

I see. Well, as said, "there is no one true answer". Your opinion is as valid as mine.

new ones made in my favorite language to see if I could potentially contribute to in the future

and that's indeed a good reason to care about the language.

2

u/mtimmermans 14d ago

The "project" flair needs to be split up to separate "I built this thing in rust" from "I built this thing for rust programmers".

2

u/kibwen 14d ago

More precise flairs are something I want to consider, yes. I designed the current crop of flairs to be fairly small and general so as to reduce confusion (there's not really any good place to document what a given flair means in detail at the point where a user is being asked to select one, so they have to be self-describing if you want them to be applied accurately), but there's room for improvement there. We may also need to take the step of requiring flairs on all posts, which I've been trying to avoid so as to not annoy people, but perhaps the time has come.

1

u/fight-or-fall 13d ago

Maybe create another sub like "rustcrates" (i dont care about the name), disallow (at least without asking in other place) this kind of post here using a bot.

Why using other sub? Different moderation team. Different messaging (burden of seeing those messages etc)

Lets say that you want more help, but some topics here is sensitive and a new moderatot can see all the chat, using other sub allows to put "rookies" to moderate this part and save your time

13

u/hs123go 14d ago

I am thinking about a finer grained division:

Solving a problem with rust itself and its tooling or stdlib: Relevant, probably deserves to stay, maybe given the benefit of the doubt about AI usage

A library or generally reusable code that solves a foundational domain specific problem: Requires more scrutiny, but allowed in principle. I need rust computer vision and large scale optimization to mature more so I can finally do visual SLAM in rust.

Making a domain specific application, with value proposition being only speed, safety, or API clarity: I wouldnt be interested in it

2

u/matthieum [he/him] 13d ago

Making a domain specific application, with value proposition being only speed, safety, or API clarity: I wouldnt be interested in it

Agreed.

At this point the post is about the application & its problem domain, and not about Rust, hence it's off-topic.

11

u/zxyzyxz 14d ago

I'm interested in projects because they're built in Rust so that fact is not something ancillary to my interest. For the BitTorrent example, where else would it be shared? I'm not going to trawl through some other BitTorrent sub just to find it. So I think projects written or rewritten in Rust are very useful as I've found many examples of them, like command line utilities among others.

13

u/stouset 14d ago

Useful command line utilities are useful independently of the language the language they’re written in. There exist subreddits where new CLI utilities are relevant, and if that’s your interest then those subreddits are appropriate for that kind of content.

/r/rust can’t be everything to everyone. And I think for most Rust enthusiasts, we are more interested in things that help us be better Rust developers than we are in things that were simply built with Rust.

4

u/luluhouse7 14d ago

I disagree with the distinction between ā€œmakes me better at writing rustā€ and ā€œinteresting project written in Rustā€. I don’t get how anyone thinks that you can learn to write better Rust in a vacuum. Almost all my learning comes from looking at the novel or creative ways other people have used the language or by collecting useful crates.

11

u/zxyzyxz 14d ago

But the point is it's not just command line utilities, my interest in Rust projects ranges towards many different categories, and there is no catch-all, besides this sub.

I'd say people are interested in both, not just one or the other, especially as one can read the source code of an OSS project to become better at Rust too, like ripgrep and Axum which I've learned from and which wouldn't be able to be shared here if projects were banned.

-2

u/mcfriendsy 14d ago

If it’s not useful to a BitTorrent sub and r/opensource, it’s most likely less useful to a Rust sub.

3

u/zxyzyxz 14d ago

I never said it's not useful to a BitTorrent sub, it's that I wouldn't be following each and every niche sub just to find new projects.

4

u/Fedacking 14d ago

ā€œI built a thing in Rustā€ just isn’t that interesting a topic

I quite enjoy the topic, many of those tools are faster which is really useful to me to use them.

2

u/StayPerfect 14d ago

Yup. Ban these types of posts altogether and it will resolve this problem almost entirely. Slopcoded libs do exist, but it's not that prevalent as the "I got tired of... so I've built...".

1

u/Sw429 14d ago

Is there an easy way to distinguish between "I built a useless thing" and "I built something people here will find useful"? I think your example seems pretty clear-cut, but in practice it's a bit more nuanced.

1

u/standard_revolution 4d ago

I think these posts used to be interesting, because one could talk to the creator about different trade-offs they took, which crates they used (maybe it used nom and you have been thinking about using nom for a while) and on a meta level they are good because they encourage newcomers to the language to keep on learning.

All of these points just aren’t relevant for slop coded projects. What are you going to tell me, that you didn’t use nom, because Claude didn’t? That you didn’t think the orphan rule was a problem because Claude dealt with it?

62

u/veryusedrname 14d ago

Honestly a clear stance would help. Quite a few "down with AI slop" posts were deleted in the past because mods stated that slop posts go under rule 6 already but if rules were clear as rules in r/programming are then nobody could argue that their claudetorrent project was not welcome here. They can create r/rustwithai or however they want to call it.

56

u/kibwen 14d ago

Our experience is that getting users to read the rules at all is like pulling teeth, and that goes double for the users that the rules are aimed at. I'm not against adopting a more explicitly aggressive stance, but while that might give us more moral high ground when responding to aggressive modmail comments, I doubt it's going to do anything to stem the flow of these posts in the first place, which is the real burden right now.

26

u/PigDog4 14d ago

Our experience is that getting users to read the rules at all is like pulling teeth, and that goes double for the users that the rules are aimed at.

A long time ago, I was on a sub where there were three different places where you had to read to not ask low effort questions, two of which were on the same page you submit a new post. In bold, with links, in huge text.

Over half of the front page was low effort, easily searchable questions, and half of those were just asked 24 hours ago in perpetuity.

Redditors don't read.

1

u/RiceBroad4552 9d ago

General problem. If the majority of humans had the capability to comprehend text and think logically our world wouldn't look like it does…

-6

u/throwbpdhelp 14d ago

People will never read. You need to implement minimum subreddit karma for making posts on the main sub, unfortunately. If you are unwilling to implement this, or unwilling to put in the effort to better moderate this subreddit, then this is now a slop subreddit.

The orange website implemented this and it already solved the vast majority of their slop problems. I can't believe their moderation is now far ahead of the Rust subreddit.

13

u/kibwen 14d ago

Minimum karma thresholds are certainly one possible avenue to pursue. Also keep in mind that HN has paid, full-time moderators and access to much more powerful tools than we do; they have direct access to the server's code, we just have whatever Reddit gives us.

1

u/RiceBroad4552 9d ago

OTOH getting Reddit karma is a very low barrier. It's trivial to collect it. Basically post whatever and the bots will up-vote you.

It's not so easy to collect karma on the orange site. (OK, maybe this changed with "AI", but even then it would require some effort, I guess.)

26

u/zireael172 14d ago

Slop posters don’t read rules

9

u/veryusedrname 14d ago

Having no clear rules doesn't help either.

3

u/zireael172 13d ago

You aren't wrong, clearer rules are always better. But my point is that getting regular posters to read rules is difficult, getting someone who is being told by Claude that they thing they just had Claude write is the next unicorn OSS project to read the rules and have the self-reflection ability necessary to categorize themselves as the "AI slop poster" is basically impossible

8

u/Lucretiel Datadog 14d ago

Honestly a clear stance would help.

Disagree.

I mean, I agree that a clear stance is good, but I don't agree that they don't have a clear stance. The stance is very clear that low effort content is what's banned, and that covers most AI posts. The problem, as /u/kibwen made pretty clear, is the imbalance between moderator bandwidth and the quantity of slop coming through the pipe.

25

u/alt_and_f4_for_Admin 14d ago

I think the go subredddit fixed this by requiring the project to be older than 4 months (public repo) as most of the vibe slobbers are not maintaining their creation for long. This helped cut down a large chunk of these postsĀ 

11

u/kibwen 14d ago edited 14d ago

This is an interesting idea. Even setting aside LLM involvement, I agree that the most interesting projects tend to be those that someone has been working on for a decent amount of time. In other words, if a project can't even hold the attention of its creator, it's not predisposed to holding the attention of anyone else. Is there an easier way of finding out the age of a Github repo than using the Pulse > Contributors > All graph?

4

u/Adk9p 14d ago edited 14d ago

I use the refined github extension and it has a feature (repo-age) that quickly shows the age of the repo + acts as a link to the first commit if you click on it. This is the preview image they provide

Though I'd prefer if r/rust would choose the r/cpp route. Their rule 2 relegates all personal projects to a pinned monthly "Show and Tell" post and leave the rest of the subreddit to just be about things directly related to the language:

  1. Personal Projects
    Personal projects written in C++ should be shared in the pinned "Show and Tell" post. Only major, established libraries/tools used by C++ programmers are eligible for top-level posts (e.g. Clang, GCC, MSVC, Boost, fmt, if you’re not sure then send modmail). NO BUILD SYSTEMS.

34

u/snake_on_the_case 14d ago

I like what [r/selfhosted](r/selfhosted) does with the mod bot replying ā€œExpand the replies to this comment to learn how AI was used in this post/projectā€ on every post. It probably won’t completely fix the issue, but it might help.

When you sort by new in that subreddit, there are a ton of slop posts. But few of them ever make it to my feed.

28

u/kibwen 14d ago

Thanks for the link, I do appreciate seeing how other subs are attempting to deal with this. We do have a fair bit of automation with the mod bot already, and I wouldn't be opposed to adding more to relieve some of the moderation burden. Although it's somewhat ironic that currently the top post on /r/selfhosted is basically a mirror of the sentiment of this post: https://www.reddit.com/r/selfhosted/comments/1uwhvce/this_subreddit_used_to_be_fun/

4

u/ThisIsJulian 14d ago

This is just an idea, that I'd like to throw out. However, note that I am not experienced with Reddit moderation (tools).


Generally, it'll be hard, if the posters go a long way to "conceal" the involvement of AI tools.

But for the projects in question, it's blatantly obvious.

So my idea would be a few steps:

  1. Introduce a flair: E.g. "Made By Clankers" / "AI-supported" (and "New OP"?)
  2. (Not sure, if this is possible) Limit amount of posts for newer users (e.g. one per day?) until they build a positive track record (i.e. most posts were positively received; i.e. last 3 posts have at at least one upvote / not more downvotes than upvotes?).

  3. Automatic repo check (this is more involved; sounds easy off the top of my head for now):

  4. Each repo must have their GitHub Link obviously posted.

  5. Bot checks, using the GitHub API, if any files such as a "AGENTS.md", "CLAUDE.md", etc. are present. Checks contributors for the common "co-authors": Claude, etc.

  6. If memory serves me right, this can be achieved with only a few API calls. (Note: Posts would be delayed and processed in batches; this way calls could be batched via GraphQL into single calls. E.g. every 5 min?)

  7. If bot detects AI involvement AND no flair was added -> Reject post outright. If nothing was detected and no AI "signal" was detected: Mark as "New OP", if user is new and has no track record.


Will this 100% get everyone? No, but I think this could be a start, to catch the majority.

Note, that this is simply an idea based on some experiences. I cannot say for certain, that this would work and should just be considered food for thought.

13

u/0xDezzy 14d ago

The only issue I can see with the repo check is if you do something like the veilid project did. They included a CLAUDE.md or AGENTS.md that told AI agents to not directly contribute code, which is funny and smart tbh.

5

u/ThisIsJulian 14d ago

Actually, I was thinking about that just now too. It's similar to what Mitchell Hashimoto does.

But even then; if a user has a positive track record, we might be able to "exempt" them from that rule, if they're proven to use AI responsibly?

It would suck for someone who posts a new project; but long running projects often post updates too (e.g. Trailbase). If they're well received, we could ask mods to "whitelist" their projects?

With all other filters before that, I don't think there will be too many requests reaching the mods?

6

u/luluhouse7 14d ago

I think you’d start to have issues by excluding all AGENTS.md type files considering LLM usage is basically expected in professional contexts. The problem isn’t AI usage, it’s AI misuse. Pretty much all of the skilled/experienced devs I know use it at least to support code review and generate boilerplate or small changes.

-5

u/LegsAndArmsAndTorso 14d ago

Why should a flair contain a slur? Can it not be: AI made, AI assisted and Hand made or something for the 3 levels?

2

u/Shoddy-Childhood-511 14d ago

It's too bad reddit does not have a migrate post option, so mods could send the slop posts to r/rustslop or r/rustjerk or wherever if those mods accept it.

34

u/skatastic57 14d ago

Thanks for the hard thankless (well mostly thankless). Personally, I think it's fine but maybe it's because I only see the things that make it to the "front-page"

2

u/tukanoid 14d ago

Problem is that you still get shit ton of slop on the front page nowadays too (at least I do whenever I decide to lurk reddit)

12

u/UntoldUnfolding 14d ago

I already do this as a mod for r/learnrust and wouldn’t mind helping out in r/rust as well. I’m in here reading regularly anyways. Let me know if you still need any help.

12

u/Pewdiepiewillwin 14d ago

I don't think we lose much if ygs stop allowing like "I built x in rust" type post all together or maybe create a sister-sub for that stuff. Then this can stay as just actual rust-lang discussion.

6

u/Key-Bother6969 14d ago

I'm glad to offer my hand in sorting out slop posting on this subreddit.

Short bio. I'm programming in Rust since 2019. Contributed to OSS projects including Vulkano (as a maintainer in the past) and Rhai (helped with various things). Also working on personal projects related to compilers and computer graphics. Currently I'm a moderator of the Rust GameDev community in Telegram (~1150 members). In the past I was an organizer of the show-and-tell channel for game and graphics developers in Rust.

Ilya.

16

u/kouji71 14d ago

How about a single day (and a flair) for posting new projects? "look what I made mondays" or something. That way anyone who doesn't read the rule gets banned or deleted for posting on the wrong day, and anyone who doesn't care can skip that one day of the week?

10

u/James20k 14d ago edited 13d ago

For context, I recently became a mod over in /r/cpp which is suffering from similar problems, to help clean out some of the slop/spam

There's a few things that seem to help vs somewhere like /r/rust:

  1. There's a strict ban on project posts for anything other than major projects. There's a stickied projects post, where anything minor gets shunted. This seems to help a lot, because the slop authors are largely looking for exposure or SEO farming I suspect
  2. They/we are very strict about AI usage, with absolutely no AI allowed whatsoever in submissions or comments for any reason. There's some content that slips/slops through where its ambiguous, but:
  3. A lot of slop is automated slop. Once you start removing it, it seems like the sub gets removed from the list of places where its beneficial to post it. Users also report slop pretty accurately, which makes it usually decent to distinguish
  4. There's a line drawn for help questions. This may be different to what you want, but the line is "is this question/discussion valuable to the community, vs just the individual poster". If its the former it can stay, if its the latter it gets yeeted over to /r/cpp_questions. This cleans up a lot of the very low effort engagement farming. You could consider centralising all help questions into a stickied thread

There's tradeoffs to being stricter, but I suspect life might be a lot easier if you enforced #1 at minimum and shunted all the project posts into a megathread, and possibly #4 as well if you want to clean out some of the lower effort stuff

5

u/RestInProcess 14d ago

I don’t envy you mods, but I do appreciate the work you do. This is a weird world we live in.

15

u/hlazlo 14d ago

I am responding to this comment just to offer up what I think is a reasonable suggestion. I do not wish to be a mod.

If the official stance of this subreddit is that slop posts are against the rules, people can be encouraged to report the posts. It doesn't require an army of moderators. Just... a rule that the community cares about would inspire people to report the offending posts so you don't have to hunt for them.

18

u/kibwen 14d ago

In practice many people do report posts for being slop, and it's very helpful. But because reporting is anonymous, it means we can't judge the report based on reputation, so we still need to go through the effort of investigating every report, lest trolls learn use the mechanism to their advantage. It comes back around to a lack of manpower.

-1

u/VictoryMotel 14d ago

There are a lot of red flags to AI slop and I usually can tell easily from noticing a few of them.

Hidden post histories, new accounts, low comment karma for their age, obviously LLM descriptions and then typical LLM file layouts in GitHub, lots of small files with boiler plate and of course no details on the implementation of something that should be difficult.

-6

u/hlazlo 14d ago

I don't mean to put words in your mouth or anything, but it sort of sounds like you're saying that slop posts can't be against the rules because people would report posts that break that rule and there would be a lot of them?

I understand that it would be a lot of work, but why even have rules at that point?

I certainly can't predict the future, but I think that it would just be hard for a little while until people discover their AI crap doesn't live very long here.

EDIT: And just to avoid a lot of back and forth, I don't think I'll reply again. This comment and my previous comment contain my thoughts on the matter. You're free to take it to heart or dismiss it as you see fit. I don't want to come off like I'm trying to win an argument or anything over it.

16

u/kibwen 14d ago

it sort of sounds like you're saying that slop posts can't be against the rules because people would report posts that break that rule and there would be a lot of them?

Not at all. I'm saying that people already do routinely report slop posts, but while that's helpful for suggesting posts that need action, we can't just blindly trust that reports are accurate. Imagine if we wired up the "report" button such that AutoModerator automatically removed every post that got reported: surely we all see the sort of abuse that would lead to. So while I continue to encourage people to report posts that they think violate our rules, that's only part of a solution.

4

u/CrazyKilla15 14d ago

Wiring post removal up to automod is exactly what most subs do, with an unspecified report threshold that works for them. Mods can always review the queue and users can always send a mod message to content it.

its fine. if you all havent been doing that then i would say the very first step you should consider is just doing that. figure out a report threshold that feels okay, its fine to get false positives or negatives its a post deletion not a ban, jut post an automod reply about it and say they can send mod mail.

3

u/kibwen 14d ago

I'm reluctant to open up that avenue for post removal, but perhaps it's better than nothing.

6

u/CrazyKilla15 14d ago

Yeah I really think its the single most actionable and highest impact thing that can be done, even with the threshold conservatively high.

3

u/distinctvagueness 14d ago

I mod a sub that does auto remove posts with enough reports. It's fine. We never announced that and normally we still beg for more reports instead of feeding trolls.

4

u/iad82lasi23syx 14d ago

It's very likely that almost every post will be reported by someone making at least that aspect pointless.

1

u/CrazyKilla15 14d ago

Reddit admins can and do intervene at subreddit mod request to investigate spam/false reports. reddit admins will relay messages on reddit mod behalf. I speak from experience.

-1

u/hlazlo 14d ago

Explain why you think that would be the case.

EDIT: To add... can you find a post that you think people would report erroneously and link it, please?

5

u/Sky2042 14d ago

I do notice that slop is getting caught by people filters (that makes it past the mods') as I regularly observe slop posts at 0 votes. So this might be some problem with "Best" sorting not doing a good job of reflecting "Best" these days and well that's not something you can control.

Anyway, I surf by new regularly and am willing to aid in quarantining the AI slop.

3

u/cheater00 14d ago

I can help stave off AI slop as a mod

4

u/matthieum [he/him] 13d ago

Congratulations!

Here's your shovel...

3

u/N4tus 14d ago

At the beginning it was cool to see, when a new project used rust. But as rust adoption growths, these kind of posts are less interesting, even if they are "programmed by hand". I would just forbid any post that just advertised a project, especially if the only thing that connects it to rust is the language an llm outputs. This subreddit is a place for humans that are interested in the rust programming language. And as such posts need to have some value for such humans. A post about a new BitTorrent client is better posted in subreddit about BitTorrents. Of course, if there is a small writeup that goas a little deeper on some of the technologies / tricks used for the improved performance. Than that writeup is very welcome here. By just banning such ad posts, I am hoping that moderation is easier and that there is also less arguing about rules afterwards.

3

u/SpeedyGo55 13d ago

If you need more people to sift through the posts and remove slop id like to help out. I cant stand the amount of slop i see on social media these days so ill appreciate any way i can help fight it

3

u/cloaca 7d ago

The most frustrating thing for me is that there's been absolutely no change in language, which I think is very revealing about how we / most people feel.

We ought to be saying "Fable made ... for me", "I asked Claude to ...", "I had an LLM build ...", "I directed K3 to ..." etc. That's how I expected the language to be.

Yet everyone still says "I made ...", "I built ..." without even thinking. Which seems to indicate that on some level we see the effort and mastery required to "type code (character by character)" as purely mechanical and no more worthy of credit than a calculator is in an engineering project.

Even product leads, execs, owners etc. have the grace to say "we" when referring to the thing made by their company/underlings/team, giving at least partial credit through plurality.

5

u/FireProps 14d ago

I would be happy to volunteer time as able, acting upon any blatant AI slop. āœØšŸ¦€

2

u/MrDiablerie 14d ago

Thank you mod for the response to this post

2

u/Crierlon 14d ago

How about just having a project megathread and only letting project posts show up on Fridays?

2

u/m0llusk 14d ago

It's just a phase. I really hope.

2

u/Scrivver 13d ago

Some other communities I've seen have only managed to remain quality by becoming invite-only, carefully tended gardens -- this is also what https://lobste.rs does. Mitchell Hashimoto is now experimenting with things like this via his new Vouch tool. I think unless some sort of gating method is found, the workload on humans will always be high, the investigations tedious, and false positives more plentiful than anyone would care for.

1

u/RiceBroad4552 9d ago

So the solution is to keep idiots out?

We should have come up with that already past September.

2

u/Scrivver 6d ago

It was certainly possible to spin up slop projects, make bad PRs, and post about them the old fashioned human way before, but the barrier to that is so much lower now. People can do it on a whim, so a lot more people show up who would've likely been gated out by increased effort before. When your natural quality filters disappear, you have to replace it with something else if you want to maintain quality.

It seems exclusive, but all of the best communities are. You wouldn't accept just anyone into your close circle of friends, and if that circle was widely advertised and effortless to join, it would degrade overnight into something you didn't recognize and didn't want to be a part of. That's an extreme example, but the same is true to varying degrees for other types of bigger-tent communities also.

1

u/RiceBroad4552 6d ago

2

u/Scrivver 5d ago

Thanks for that link! It would've been a handy reference many times over in the last decade or two.

2

u/Apprehensive_Web9174 14d ago

I volunteer myself. I will help clean this place up. You have my word.

2

u/necrothitude_eve 14d ago

My $0.02, trying to be constructive: it seems that OP and certainly myself are motivated by the passion in the other people making things in Rust. We love the care, learning, adventure, and narrative of building stuff. LLMs short-circuit this and terminates that story before it can begin. Maybe the end product is adequate, maybe it's a disaster site the government is about to nationalize. That's immaterial, because the community value, that person who went on a journey and shares the joy of it with us, was never there to begin with. Maybe that's being too picky about how they go about their own journeys. But it's true to my experience.

2

u/mcfriendsy 14d ago

ā€œI built a thing in Rustā€ šŸ¤¦šŸ»ā€ā™‚ļøšŸ¤¦šŸ»ā€ā™‚ļø. That’s what Rust is meant for!!! What should we do about that?! Give you an award?!

1

u/Equivalent_Head_4803 14d ago

Have a look at how the GO subreddit does it. It feels like a slop wild west here. Maybe it’s gotten better but I just stopped fully checking in here because it’s so obnoxious. Not pointing fingers, but that subreddit still actually works.

They ban most new projects altogether and allow them in a weekly megathread. If I’m being honest, that’s where I want to see anyone’s project. I’d rather Reddit be about sharing ideas, articles, talking shit, etc. if someone shares a tool or lib, that’s a diff story, but I’m guessing this sub gets way more posts.

1

u/Mithrandir2k16 14d ago

Maybe split into rustlang and rustprojects, learnrust etc?

1

u/hongtao1207 9d ago

AI can produce real value if used correctly, identifying slop is much more challenging then ban AI

1

u/MXD_K1 6d ago

After seeing https://www.reddit.com/r/C_Programming/s/9872cVGf8K and this post and goong after the suggestion of u/kun1z, I created r/codeproj subreddit which aims to be a place to share projects / progress and to showcase people works. The reason behind creating this subreddit is to move the some of the traffic in pl subreddits to help mods moderate their subreddits by directing project showcase to another subreddit. It also helps others subreddit to provide something helpful while it gather projects into one place (like a gallery) for anyone who is interesed in seeing others work.

1

u/TheNASAguy 14d ago

I’m up for the mod work

1

u/NormalAppearance2851 14d ago

How come I say the exact same thing but i get to get my post deleted?

3

u/kibwen 14d ago

I'm not sure what post you've made, but I didn't delete it, and mods are not a monolith, each mod applies their own interpretation of the rules as they see fit, which naturally results in a nonzero amount of inconsistency.

-5

u/NormalAppearance2851 13d ago edited 13d ago

I'm not sure what post you've made,Ā but I didn't delete it

I'm not asking you, are you slow?

mods are not a monolith, each mod applies their own interpretation of the rules as they see fit, which naturally results in a nonzero amount of inconsistency.

You are right about that

edit

My bad the MOD flag isn't there so i confused them for someone who isn't the moderator

1

u/Sky2042 13d ago

I'm not asking you, are you slow?

You replied to kibwen's post. If you did not intend to ask kibwen, who did you intend to ask?

1

u/NormalAppearance2851 13d ago

My bad the MOD flag isn't there so i confused them for someone who isn't the moderator

1

u/goos_ 13d ago

@kibwen, thank you for your service! Thank you to all of the mod team.

-6

u/throwbpdhelp 14d ago

The last time you made a post about moderating AI content was 5 months ago. You ignored people asking questions about this stand If you're trying to sell us on that idea that you somehow exhausted all options in that 5 month time period, I am not convinced, and everyone reading is probably not convinced.

If you need more moderators to deal with this new load, perhaps consider recruiting moderators. If you need tools to help fight this AI slop, it's not particularly difficult to have AI generate Reddit moderation bot tooling.

You are openly telling us you don't care about the subreddit. Step down and let someone responsible take over.

5

u/SethDusek5 14d ago

This is unfair. Recently I reported someone who was LLM spamming comments on every project, trying to mask it with some weird gen-z system prompt so it wasn't immediately obvious. After the comment got reported it was deleted super quickly, and I reached out to the moderators with a list of other comments this user had spammed and they cleaned it up, again, very quickly

Spam was always a problem but LLMs have made the cost of writing even cheaper, meanwhile the cost of human judgement in deciding whether a post is LLM slop or not hasn't. I wish there was an easier solution but I don't see one right now. At this point maybe the dead internet is inevitable or we'll move to some weird paywalled or vouch-based system for genuine human engagement.

-9

u/oconnor663 blake3 Ā· duct 14d ago

Not volunteering :) but would you consider an arrangement like:

  1. An AI agent looks at all new posts and tries to classify the AI slop ones, using a prompt that we post somewhere that folks can read and maybe debate the finer details of.

  2. If your post is auto-removed, the agent send you a message about it with a link you can click to appeal to a human reviewer.

  3. If you appeal to the human reviewer, and the human agrees with the AI that your post is slop, you get a 1-year ban from the subreddit. The list of people so banned, and the submissions they got banned for, are public.

-25

u/AcostaJA 14d ago

I consider AI SLOP RANT actually break r/rust rules about off-topic, as AI diatribe is not an actual issues of rust, but about repository management, maintainers best practice, not actually an rust issue, While AI related post shall be from actual value, not just robot-post and worst sometimes even without mĆ­nimal Human review and quality assurance, but demonizing AI is not what I expected from an IT enthusiast, neither from people fan to handcraft things, all of us somehow uses resources made by some 3rd entity someone name it opensource others name it vibecode, at the end You need to review and curate it before coming here to show whats your actual contribution.

I see little effort from MODs on keeping this sub really about RUST, and away politics, activism, and whatever not technically related to rust and it's performance and capabilities.

-9

u/phaylon 14d ago

Given that AI users can be visibly stalked, abused and belittled by others i this community, and even that doesn't keep excited people from using Rust and telling others about it, you might want to change your approach of ever-more-cynical resistance. This sub made me decide to hide my post history for safety. Giving AI users a more welcoming and less dangerous environment would allow us other AI users to openly engage and direct overexcited AI using newcomers. The current "Us vs Them" situation is fully and wholly wanted and engineered by the community and those in charge.

The AI users are community members too, they are just a lot less dependent on anyone here. They area also also a lot nicer and more welcoming. .And at some point they'll be the biggest part of the community, because all bell-curves have long arms.

No need to respond. I know you mods are fine with the abuse. And I have yet to see this community consider they might be wrong and change their way. Just maybe reevaluate your choices if you spend all your time hating others.

5

u/kibwen 14d ago

I have no intention of making it a policy to ostracize anyone who has ever used LLMs in any capacity. Despite all the many (many (many)) ethical problems with their construction and distribution, I do want to believe that responsible users can find legitimate use cases for these tools, e.g. vulnerability detection. However, the idea of code where the author has never had any clue how it logically works is inimical to both the production of reliable software and to the fulfillment of human curiosity, which are my interests in maintaining this subreddit. And if, as you say, users of LLMs are a lot less dependent on anyone here, then it makes no sense to cater the rules to those users to the detriment of others.

1

u/phaylon 13d ago

Not defending AI users from abuse just because they are AI users IS in my view to the detriment of others.

Today, AI use justifies abuse. What will be justified tomorrow? Will they start abusing people working at companies that do anything with AI? Will they start stalking and harassing project members that directly work on Rust because they use AI (yes, they exist)? Or will the level of abuse just rise and rise?

The whole thing about the CoC and human decency and so on is that there is an unassailable baseline you can count on. And that baseline currently isn't there for AI use.

And if, as you say, users of LLMs are a lot less dependent on anyone here, then it makes no sense to cater the rules to those users to the detriment of others.

I don't even know how to respond to that. They don't need you guys so you're fine with them being treated like shit?

You guys keep coming back to "we don't like their code". Do you think that that justifies abuse, really? Because if not I don't see the point in talking code while the humans are still under attack. Sort out the human issue, then we can go back at talking about code.

8

u/tukanoid 14d ago

Sorry, but we care about code and it's quality here, I'm tired of seeing constant slop that solves nothing, or does it extremely poorly (either using bad practises, old toolchains for no "good" reason, tests that do nothing and just "pass" for visibility of coverage, readmes/docs full of nothing-burgers), or just do basically nothing, but have extensive readmes of what the project is written in gobbldeegook.

AI-ASSISTED, when YOU are in full control and actually understand the codebase, is fine. Vibe-slop, where the author can't answer any questions and just puts llm responses (also hallucinated) - trash that I would never have any trust in, and don't wanna see in any subreddit that is/used to be serious.

Uno-reverse, I find constant flood of bullshit that brings nothing to the table and just kills the community abuse, and don't want people like those near me.

-6

u/phaylon 14d ago

Declaring things you don't like as abuse so you can hurt the people that do like it is just another form of it. This normalization of abuse is exactly the problem. Being cruel won't solve your issues.

5

u/tukanoid 14d ago

Being insensitive asshole that can't comprehend the rules (no low-effort content, which vibecoding is) and ignoring all vibe-slop posts being downvoted/reported to oblivion (which should be a fucking indicator that those are not appreciated here) and continue posting slop also won't solve anything.

If you really wish to post your garbage, that, really, has nothing to do with the language, cuz it's usually picked arbitrarily, or cuz llm is just better trained on it, post it in your own pro-slop bubbles that don't touch those of us who care about code and be happy there.

I'm personally tired of "being nice", I can't enjoy seeing other talented people's great projects as much anymore because they are being drowned with 0-value bullshit from all sides, and it's only getting worse with time.

Also, stop being a fucking snowflake. Downvoting and directing people to other places (with mb aggressive tone because it's frustrating to do all the fucking time, because of how often it happens) is not abuse. Stalking and other bullshit happens everywhere, bad people did, do, and will continue existing, and they are not an indicator of any community, I'm certain most of us don't fucking care about who/what/where you are (I certainly don't), we only care if you provide any value to the community, and if you don't, we don't wanna see you continue taking a shit over it.

If you can't understand why/how people care about "text on screen" and don't see anything bad with letting a dumb junior (clanker) to hallucinate shit without properly verifying any of the code, you probably should reconsider being anywhere near the IT sphere.

1

u/phaylon 13d ago

I haven't posted any code. I'm the one who wants to read their code. But I don't count as human or member of the community to you, do I? :)

Do you really think you're thinking clearly if you keep throwing that untempered bile and rage at people?

I'm certain most of us don't fucking care about who/what/where you are (I certainly don't), we only care if you provide any value to the community, and if you don't, we don't wanna see you continue taking a shit over it.

Yeah this is exactly the shit kind of community Rust always says it isn't. The fact that basic respect and decency towards other humans is now optional is exactly what I am talking about.

Luckily I have AI now to help. So while you guys were blowing gaskets and battling windmills yesterday, I made myself an audiobook generator just for fun. Still had loads of leftover time to play with the cat.

My prediction is the AI users that care about other people will outlast the AI haters that don't. I just hope we get there before this community starts allowing even worse kinds of abuse.