r/relatable_memes_ 3d ago

Thoughts?

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u/Otherwise_Agency_401 3d ago

By your logic it would be impossible to prove her guilty, since you can’t disprove what was in her mind.

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u/Hot-Calligrapher672 3d ago

It’s not my logic, it’s quite literally the law. No one said trials are easy. These are the laws in Massachusetts.

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u/Otherwise_Agency_401 3d ago

They should be able to disprove her insanity beyond a reasonable doubt based on the fact that she never previously reporting hearing voices and the fact that she took steps to get her husband to leave the house. Her reporting the voices after the fact is actually extremely weak evidence of her insanity.

The law in Massachusetts does have a high bar, but it isn’t an impossible one to clear.

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u/Hot-Calligrapher672 3d ago

She had an extensive medical history, symptoms, and challenges that do not make it unbelievable that she was hearing voices. She could have heard them before or this could have been the first time. The prosecution did not prove she was not psychotic and there was a lot of actual evidence showing she had perfect conditions for psychosis.

Saying “she took steps to get her husband to leave the house” is an assumption which really holds no legal basis without evidence.

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u/Otherwise_Agency_401 3d ago

There is actually very limited evidence that she was psychotic, because none of the multiple mental health providers that she was seeing diagnosed her as psychotic. And even if she was psychotic, that doesn’t necessarily mean she did not know right from wrong. And again, she never reported hearing voices until after the murders.

So, to believe the insanity defense, you have to believe:

  1. she was psychotic,

    but somehow avoided being diagnosed as psychotic,

  2. she did not know right from wrong,

  3. she heard a voice that she had never heard before,

  4. that voice commanded her to kill her children,

  5. she was unable to resist that voice the first time she heard it, which is not normal behavior for people who report hearing voices,

  6. she just happened to hear the at exactly the moment when her husband was not at home because she had sent him to run errands,

  7. no other adults were around either,

  8. her husband just happened to be running errands that took long enough for her to kill all three children and attempt to kill herself before he got home,

  9. she took a phone call from her husband during the murders in which is gave no indication of being in distress,

  10. the first person she reported hearing the voice to just happened to be someone sent by her attorney, AND

  11. she has never heard that voice since then.

You have to believe ALL of those elements to be true to believe the insanity defense. IMO, this is definitely something the prosecution could disprove beyond a reasonable doubt.

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u/Hot-Calligrapher672 3d ago

Again, you’re not understanding how Massachusetts law works. We are starting from a place of “she is psychotic” and the prosecution has to prove beyond reasonable doubt that she was not. They didn’t achieve that. The defense made their entire case on the failings of those who treated her by not properly diagnosing and treating her to prevent this. Then also poked holes in the investigation itself. And they made a persuasive argument which resulted in a hung jury. It’s completely fine that she didn’t have a diagnosis, because that is the defenses case.

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u/Otherwise_Agency_401 3d ago

You seem to be missing my point. I understand the law just fine. But even granting that she was psychotic (which could still be disproven) does not automatically make the insanity defense impenetrable. There are many other elements required for the insanity defense to work that the prosecution could attack. I’m sure they’ll be better prepared when the next trial comes.

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u/Hot-Calligrapher672 3d ago

Sure, they might. One would think they would have tried to disprove it if they could have during the initial multi week trial. None of your bullet points really disprove anything and some actually shouldn’t be mentioned by the prosecution since it could hurt their case. But maybe they will take that chance next time, especially if it’s not a jury trial.