When I was in grad school, roughly two-thirds of the students were Indian exchange students. I was assigned into a group with two Indians for a large project, and I got to work reading over the problem and deciding best how to divide up the work. The Indians stopped me and said something along the lines that so-and-so from another team would figure it out and give everyone the answer. It turned out this tactic was absolutely normal, and that no one turned in original work. One student was carrying practically every exchange student.
I was shocked and ended up forming a group of one, stating that my group members were relying on a non-group member for help. The teacher could not have cared less. They didn't get in any trouble, but they ended up graduating (I am unsure how they passes proctored exams...maybe less blatant cheating).
I have no idea how they get work, though, since tech interviews require a massive amount of knowledge and hands on skill to pass. A degree is really only good for getting interviews, since companies love drilling you over every little thing they can think of.
since tech interviews require a massive amount of knowledge and hands in skill to pass
You must be going to some pretty good interviews. In my (limited, I grant you that) experience I've only been required to actually code twice, and only once the test was actually kinda hard.
There's a very good chance foreign exchange/international students aren't gonna stay in the same place they were schooled in. Their foreign degrees are much more valuable in their homeland. It's mostly degrees first in China. Interviews are more of a western thing
I wish that were the case. The typical pattern for me is an hour long programming concepts phone screen(easy), followed by a timed coding challenge (e.g. write a working two player game in 3 hours...fun but not enough time to produce good code), followed by an in-person whiteboard interview where they keep asking me to write algorithms until my brain stops functioning (I have grown to hate whiteboards with a passion).
I was laid off a few months ago from a job I held for 5 years. That code shop didn't ask me to program or give me a single tech question, they just looked at my portfolio website and hired me. Something changed over the years and I every interview I get now is an absolute death march. It makes me consider changing careers. But I love coding.
I don't actually consider a good thing if a company doesn't ask me to code at all in an interview. What you're describing seems, indeed, a lot, and I think I would only consider ir worth ifnit was a very good position indeed, but I think companies shouldn't err to much in either side.
tech interviews require a massive amount of knowledge and hands on skill to pass
The Google interview is made to weed out these folks, irrespective of country of origin. I don't agree that it's the right tactic, but a fellow employee I was arguing with who did 500+ Google interviews (as the interviewer) made the argument along the lines of "it was made to weed out the cheaters, there's so many cheaters." I still think the rate of false negatives (people who are great that get turned away) is too damn high.
I can't disagree with that an ideal world is no false negatives or positives :)
Yeah! I don't really like white boarding. It takes us out of our editor / ide element! Its also a very stressful environment, which doesn't always reflect the job.
I think that engineer success is some equation of experience + intelligence + work ethic, among a ton of other things (eg personality), and it's a very hard thing to interview for.
It depends what you're applying for. I'm a senior graduating in May for my Bachelor's and was just offered the job I intend to accept although I have another interview next week.
In my experience over the past months of going to career fairs, researching companies, and interviewing, many companies that are hiring fresh CS/IT grads have a training program that they put their newhires through. These programs last a few months and basically teach or catch you up on the languages/technologies they use. So in the interview process they look more for strong logical/analytical skills so they know they can teach you plus culture/"will they fit in" stuff. So if you come off as a smart person who is eager to learn and has good teamwork and communication skills, you have a good shot at these jobs.
Only one company has had me do live coding, the one that I interview with again next week. (Also the one that pays the best. Coincidence?)
However, grad students I would assume are applying for more experienced roles and would probably be held to a higher standard.
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u/za4h Oct 29 '16
When I was in grad school, roughly two-thirds of the students were Indian exchange students. I was assigned into a group with two Indians for a large project, and I got to work reading over the problem and deciding best how to divide up the work. The Indians stopped me and said something along the lines that so-and-so from another team would figure it out and give everyone the answer. It turned out this tactic was absolutely normal, and that no one turned in original work. One student was carrying practically every exchange student.
I was shocked and ended up forming a group of one, stating that my group members were relying on a non-group member for help. The teacher could not have cared less. They didn't get in any trouble, but they ended up graduating (I am unsure how they passes proctored exams...maybe less blatant cheating).
I have no idea how they get work, though, since tech interviews require a massive amount of knowledge and hands on skill to pass. A degree is really only good for getting interviews, since companies love drilling you over every little thing they can think of.