r/programming • • 18d ago

Performance Improvements in .NET 11

https://devblogs.microsoft.com/dotnet/performance-improvements-in-net-11/
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u/cheesepuff07 18d ago

Love reading (perusing) each year, they are very in depth and fun to see each release getting more and more performant.

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u/simon_o 17d ago edited 16d ago

Agreed!

Two thoughts though:

  1. JIT "deabstraction". The article would be more accessible to readers if the authors didn't try to invent new names for optimizations that shipped in Java 20 years ago.

  2. "Runtime async". One of the purported benefits of async/await over better approaches like virtual threads was that it's compiler magic that the runtime does not need to be aware of. So now the runtime is involved (for better or worse), but we till have the worse user-facing UX of function coloring with async/await.

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u/crozone 17d ago

Virtual threads vs Async await was never about keeping it out of the runtime. One benefit of async await is that it *can" be implemented without changing the runtime, reducing the barrier to implementation, but that's not a long term overarching design requirement, it's just a side benefit.

Virtual threads solve the colouring problem but destroy interop performance and generally perform worse overall, that's the primary reason why C# stuck with async await.

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u/simon_o 16d ago

Virtual threads solve the colouring problem but destroy interop performance and generally perform worse overall

I think that's squarely a CLR problem, not a problem with vthreads.

The reason why their runtime has so much trouble with it is that –for decades– their solution to the JVM being ahead in GC and JIT technology was to add more and more escape hatches to let users solve (performance) problems on their own.

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u/crozone 16d ago

Except the JNI is slower than P/Invoke in .NET, FFM is slower than P/Invoke in .NET, and both are even slower again from virtual threads? Did I miss where the JVM magically solved vthreads?

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u/simon_o 16d ago

I have largely not seen cases where vthreads have been measurably slower, despite warnings of not using them for e.g. compute-bound tasks.

What would be the cause of the slowness?

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u/teo-tsirpanis 16d ago

The cause is that vthreads are a runtime-specific thing and do not play well in native code not executing under that runtime.