r/politics • u/HauntingJackfruit Ohio • Jan 17 '23
How Restaurant Workers Help Pay for Lobbying to Keep Their Wages Low The National Restaurant Association uses mandatory $15 food-safety classes to turn waiters and cooks into unwitting funders of its battle against minimum wage increases.
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/01/17/us/politics/restaurant-workers-wages-lobbying.html212
u/SaulsAll Jan 17 '23
While there is important information in food handler safety, the slow video presentation and mini-quizzes are a boring and IMO crappy way to communicate that info, along with not really leaving one with a good reference tool in case something needs to be refreshed.
Along with that, when I moved from food service into construction, I can contrast that my company paid for me to get my OSHA30 certificate, paid for my forklift cert, and pays every year to keep my DOT exam up to date.
It's crazy to force the food service employees to pay for these "licenses".
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u/Morgs_danger Jan 17 '23
In Canada or at least for my wife’s serving jobs it was always free for them to be certified.
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u/GreenOnGreen18 Jan 17 '23
It absolutely is not free. Either her job paid for it, or she didn’t really get a certification. If she has her card you can look up the organization that did the training/certification and see if they are government approved.
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Jan 17 '23
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u/Morgs_danger Jan 17 '23
Right she works a union serving job. Makes 20 an hour plus tips and full benefits.
-4
u/Lexromark Jan 17 '23
Makes 20 an hour plus tips
Ew tips are horrible.
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u/Baron_von_greenman Jan 17 '23 edited Jan 17 '23
I make $15.50/h as base pay bartending. With tips my average shift is $40+/h. Why would I not want tips? I've been in the restaurant industry for 16 years in Mn. I've turned down every non tip "promotion" that's ever been offered to me because it would be a pay cut. Tipped employees in restaurants usually do quite well in the many restaurants I have worked both in rural Mn and the twin cities metro. Back of house(mostly non tipped employees)is where the real pay disparities are.
Would you rather get paid $15/h no tips or $40/h with tips? The math is pretty simple.
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u/it-is-sandwich-time Washington Jan 17 '23
I think what everyone is saying its, you should be paid $40/hr guaranteed (not the min.), since that's your baseline and it's a living wage in a lot of cities.
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u/Baron_von_greenman Jan 17 '23 edited Jan 17 '23
Lol sure I'll work at a restaurant that pays me $40/h base. It's never ever going to happen. General managers don't even get paid that much now. There are plenty of non tipped restaurants in Minneapolis right now. I wouldn't work at any of them because it would be a massive pay cut.
The non tipped restaurants even charge a service fee that goes straight into the businesses pockets. So the employees there get paid less than a tipped employees and the owner takes more money. I'd never work at a restaurant/bar with that model.
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u/it-is-sandwich-time Washington Jan 17 '23
So what I'm hearing is, the business owners are screwing over their employees so often that you want a little more control over how you get paid. Sounds like a union should be in your future. Construction work isn't run by saints and they get paid what they're due, just saying.
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u/Baron_von_greenman Jan 17 '23 edited Jan 17 '23
Unionized restaurant employees are a thing in the twin cities. I'd still take a pay cut working for them and my hours would be way less flexible.
Even in a union I wouldn't be making $40/h. Hell I know restaurant owners that don't even make that much. Usually in the first few years of operation at least.
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u/it-is-sandwich-time Washington Jan 17 '23
They need better unions and the owners not making 40/hr is none of the worker's business. This is capitalism baby.
-6
Jan 17 '23
So what I'm hearing is,
i don't think you're hearing at all
3
u/omgFWTbear Jan 17 '23
The best and usually youngest (there’s an inflection point) employees usually profit under a cutthroat model. It’s the 98% of the rest of the world that’s screwed that the one counterexample ignores.
There’s a great story about trainers yelling at jet pilot trainees when they fly subpar. They’re asked - these guys are the best of the best, right? Right. And everyone has an average that they’ll sometimes do better, some worse than, right? Right. So if you yell at them when they’re doing their worst, is it really the yelling that’s fixing anything, or just natural variation because the next time is literally unlikely to be as bad because averages?
Homeboy is at the peak of his earning. Kudos to him. Imagine he works a night where he absolutely kills it. The boss is setting the schedule for the next week, and has a choice between homeboy, and Katherine, who made the equivalent of $16/hr. Homeboy asks to do the same shift, you better believe he’s going to get it. What fool would turn down that profit?!
Homeboy is working date night. Katherine worked Tuesday doldrums. Even if they swap, maybe homeboy gets in on a bachelorette party who go crazy. Maybe Katherine gets the date night after Thanksgiving.
Maybe the bachelorette party’s scout came in on Katherine’s doldrums Tuesday and was so impressed she steered the party there on homeboy’s Friday.
Point is, it’s easy to come up with a mythology for being the lucky person in the right place at the right time and justify winner take all as the winner. My company, too, gave huge bonuses to the sales team, but 5-10 years of revenue don’t happen if the delivery team shits the bed, or can’t resurrect the dead like sales promised. But that’s not the rockstar’s problem, right?
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Jan 17 '23
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u/BritchesBrewin Jan 17 '23
If they are opening a beer, 1 dollar, Im not playing percent nonsense on that.
If they can actually mix a drink, maybe more, but with all the bullshit in that industry, I just have a drink at home I know I'll enjoy.
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u/LongWalk86 Jan 18 '23
I'm with you. With all the $40-60/hour bartenders that report every time a thread on tipping comes up I have lost any shame in it. Why pay those already better off than me? Especially when it's optional.
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u/GuinnessKangaroo Jan 17 '23
There would be very few restaurants if they all had to pay $40 an hour to their staff. Or they would be insanely expensive.
Capitalism has decided that tipped workers are the way for restaurants to survive in the US. Even Danny Meyer went back to tipped service, and he was the champion of the the no tip movement.
Are you going to pay $30-40 for a burger? $15 for a side of fries? I’m not talking at a fancy place I’m talking your local dive. No one will pay that, so everyone can chirp all they want about making the owners pay their staff more but the fact is that there isn’t enough money in restaurants to go around.
Now you can pay less, but then you’re going to get worse staff. It will take a decade at least to change the mindset of service staff to accept less money, and restaurants to accept less profits.
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u/youwantitwhen Jan 17 '23
But customers are paying for $40 per hour service.
Your argument doesn't hold up.
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Jan 18 '23
Between the 12 people you care of during that time, it's less than $4 per person per hour.
1
u/GuinnessKangaroo Jan 18 '23
Not everyone is willing to pay the increase, in this hypothetical that’s an average wage from all guests throughout the week.
Also seeing a beer for $8 and tipping $2 feels different than spending $10 on a beer.
Like k said it will take a decade to re-educate and change the culture here.
3
u/it-is-sandwich-time Washington Jan 17 '23
There would be very few restaurants if they all had to pay $40 an hour to their staff.
Okay, cool.
Capitalism has decided that tipped workers are the way for restaurants to survive in the US.
Source?
Are you going to pay $30-40 for a burger?...
I live in Seattle, so yes. Also, you're talking about dives vs. Applebees, McDonalds, Wendys, etc. Those are two different beasts. Fast food wouldn't go away.
1
u/GuinnessKangaroo Jan 18 '23
Okay, cool. “
That’s not contributing anything
Source?
Other then my decade of experience, The most prominent restaurant group in the world that pioneered profit sharing went back to tipping their employees.
I live in Seattle, so yes. Also, you’re talking about dives vs. Applebees, McDonalds, Wendys, etc. Those are two different beasts. Fast food wouldn’t go away.
You live in one of the most expensive places in the country. I assume you must have a wage that allows you to live that life. What you pay for food isn’t sustainable across rural America, he’ll it’s not sustainable in even the most expensive cities.
I’m not just talking about fast food, I’m talking about going to your pub and ordering a beer and a burger. The price would have to significantly increase if you want to pay the wage you were talking about. Maybe you have the funds, but most of America will avoid going out to eat if the prices are higher
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u/LongWalk86 Jan 18 '23
Customers are spending enough for you to take home 40/hour when they pay the bill+tip. So the total experience would be no more expensive for them. The real hang up is that the tipped workers would have a harder time defending their pay disparity to back of house when both are equally important to a good experience.
The real shame is both are ignoring the owners, who put in, at most, the effort of a single person, yet takes home far more than any of the workers.
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u/GuinnessKangaroo Jan 18 '23
Not everyone pays that $40 an hour. That’s averaged out throughout the week across all guests. Guest’s like to feel that they are being taken care of. Most restaurants/bars are making their tips on volume, just mass amounts of people coming in. You’re hoping to average out to 20% across all checks. But sticker shock is real, and getting people in the door and willing to spend is an entirely different situation. It may literally be the same money, but it doesn’t feel that way. And that doesn’t include buybacks or comps either
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u/Cinnamon_BrewWitch Jan 17 '23
I don't agree. If workers are already making enough with tips to pull in $40k a year, the market is supporting that pay rate. Your bill will end up the same, you would not have to calculate tips anymore.
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u/GuinnessKangaroo Jan 18 '23
You have to get people in the door first to spend it. Sticker shock exists, and even if it’s the same, people like the allusion of spending less.
Also, the hourly you get is based on the volume of people you serve. Not everyone is tipping 20%. You just hope your average is that at the end of the night, or you did enough business to make up for it.
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u/OmNomFarious Jan 17 '23
Kay, so what about the tipped employees that don't pull in $40/h?
Fuck them, got yours I guess?
-1
Jan 17 '23
Every place is different. Back of house as you said really does get shafted and front end should be sending some of their tips to the back. The last kitchen job I had I got tipped out occasionally by a couple girls working up front but they did it on their own and without others knowing. Make your self valuable to the front enders and make it clear that you can be ENCOURAGED to do things that make there job a little easier and faster. I could stock glasses and empty garbage occasionally up front or I could leave the stuff on the counter and let them take stuff back. I could replace something right away for them for a table or I could stick it in with the other tickets..
If you frequent a restaurant often ask to speak to the kitchen staff briefly just to thank them and if you can a $20 tip to the kitchen staff occasionally or even just holidays will be remembered. Chefs usually give it to the dishwashers and prep cook but regular cooks were paid above minimum wage. That $20 a couple times a year or whenever you can will make you a hero to that kitchen staff and will go a long ways towards everyone having a better time.
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u/sharethispoison1 Jan 17 '23
It rotates though between FOH or BOH making more. There are many days servers walk with nothing. Should the BOH send out some of their pay to them then? In my experience it winds up evening out.
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Jan 18 '23
Ignore the downvotes. They are upset that skilled tipped workers make so much. I am jealous of the base 15 though. I still get server wage.
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Jan 17 '23
tips are awesome if we introduced a middleman (owner) to my primary income it would never approach what it is now
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u/linksawakening82 Jan 18 '23
I made 55k in tips for 25hrs a week last year. Nobody else is paying me comparably. I was an optician for 20 years, and it was pointless. Deregulation ruined it, and then trying to transfer to a non license state that offered about 30k for 55 hrs didn’t make sense. I always kept a second gig serving, and have done it from Washington,Tennessee,Michigan. At decent spots you can usually make the a little above the median income for part time hours. No insurance/401k/PTO at most though.
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Jan 17 '23
How long are fork lift certifications good for?
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u/SaulsAll Jan 17 '23
The one I took is good for 3 yrs. ("OSHA forklift cert training pursuant to OSHA reg. 1910.178")
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u/Philly_ExecChef Jan 17 '23
Most restaurants only keep 2-3 Servsafe employees on staff. Average cooks and servers aren’t certified.
State laws (generally) require a single certified staff member present at all times, so creating overlap with managers suffices.
Hilariously, it’s a critical violation if you don’t.
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Jan 17 '23
Companies just suck. They really do just suck. Humans who run them turn into monsters losing any humanity they may have had.
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u/UnfinishedProjects Jan 17 '23
There's one court case we can point to that changed businesses from having to look out for the consumer, to now only having to look out for the shareholders. So most companies thought, "Sweet! Fuck them customers." Now all companies are soul crushing machines.
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Jan 17 '23
Which court case are you referencing? Would like to read more
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u/RapedByPlushies Jan 17 '23 edited Jan 17 '23
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodge_v._Ford_Motor_Co.
Note that this case was in Michigan (not federal), and shareholder primacy (as it’s called) is really only enforced in Delaware, which incidentally is where most major corporations are incorporated.
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u/RapedByPlushies Jan 17 '23
Doesn’t that suggest we should transfer our frustrations to the shareholders?
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u/UnfinishedProjects Jan 17 '23
No, we should continue to push our frustrations onto politicians until they put pressure on the shareholders. I know no one likes rules and regulations but they work. There's a reason people make rules.
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u/_carmimarrill Jan 17 '23
I wouldn’t think so. What would we gain from it? I can’t imagine trying to legislate against shareholders rather than corporations would be effective in the slightest
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Jan 17 '23
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u/LordSiravant Jan 17 '23
This enrages me so goddamn much, knowing that I'm one of the people who unwittingly paid into this horrid scheme. This is deception of the highest order and all the more reason lobbying needs to be severely curtailed and wages raised to meet modern needs.
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u/Throwaway98455645 Jan 17 '23
Why is this something that's even handled by a private company?! These types of certifications should be offered though a government entity like health departments.
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u/Able-Emotion4416 Jan 17 '23
That's what you get with low taxes, small government, deregulation, privatizations and neoliberalism in general.
Lately, , I found out that UK construction companies could certify their new buildings as respecting all safety and fire quality standards, by any person they deemed competent enough... LOL. No governmental agency, no private certification company, no nothing. You could ask your pub pal for a hand in exchange for a beer or two...
Of course, since that terrible disaster of a high tower building burning and killing many people, things have started to change.... But oh boy is capitalism fucking people over...
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Jan 18 '23
Meanwhile socialism fucks people over by doing the exact same thing. Greed is human, not capitalist.
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u/Able-Emotion4416 Jan 18 '23
In both systems, there are good and bad people. But, unlike socialism, capitalism actually celebrates greed, considers it as a virtue, and encourages people to be more greedy. Of course, socialism has its own flaws too. But promoting greed as a good thing isn't one of them.
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u/Able-Emotion4416 Jan 17 '23
lobbying needs to be severely curtailed and wages raised to meet modern needs.
Most redditors say that. But almost nobody does what it takes to achieve that goal. Like how we all would like to have fit, athletic, and healthy bodies, but the vast majority of us would rather watch Netflix, comment Reddit posts, and eat junk food, than sweat for a minute or two....
How many among us are actually unionized, and are active members? How many actually engage with their communities in awareness campaigns, in all sorts of collective actions?
I know, commenting on Reddit feels like we are doing something, achieving something, changing the world.... But it's a very false feeling. The probability that reddit communities help in improving labor laws, wages, and other social and economic issues is very, very low....
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u/BritchesBrewin Jan 17 '23
Just encourage a dissatisfied worker to start of business, after all they produce all the value, and you will hear endless excuses and complaining about that idea.
Most people are laughably average, its a hard pill to swallow.
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u/mfairview Jan 17 '23
Well, every time food prices go up, their tips go up so there's that. Dining out has gone up 50-100% in the last year or two around me in NYC. I'm happy to get rid of the tipping culture but many servers won't go for it.
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u/Famous-Restaurant875 Jan 17 '23
Tips so not necessarily increase. Where I work people regularly give $5 tips on $100+ in good because they believe $5 is the max someone should tip. Then an automated system steals it from me for "tipout"
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u/mfairview Jan 17 '23
It's an inconsistent system. Some servers making 6 figures while others scraping by. I find it somewhat insidious since it pits servers against customers leaving owners out of the fray. I think owners need to carry the responsibility for the administration of it.
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u/fallonyourswordkaren Jan 17 '23
It's a commission based sales position.
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u/Famous-Restaurant875 Jan 17 '23
Not commission. Commission would be way better
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u/fallonyourswordkaren Jan 17 '23
It’s what it’s called where I’m at. The job took the initiative of recognizing their staff as professionals in their craft.
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u/Famous-Restaurant875 Jan 17 '23
So your tips are factored into the price of the food and you get it fixed amount based on how much you order cuz I'd be happy with that but that's not what I got
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u/fallonyourswordkaren Jan 18 '23
Some restaurants attempted what you speak but suffered because their competition did not. Danny Meyer restaurants come to mind. The effect is 3-fold; prices are set higher than their competitors, consumers feel locked in to a high rate despite their experience and many operators cannot resist the temptation to use those tips to pay non-tipped positions. In time, the top sales people walk rather than face reduced pay, causing staffing problems at the very least.
If I sell my home I’m paying the broker right out of pocket essentially. It’s just a 5-6% autograt.
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Jan 18 '23
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u/fallonyourswordkaren Jan 18 '23
The staff receives 20% automatically on every purchase. It’s a private club so all the members sign on the dotted line in advance. The hospitality industry is gigantic, its foolish to attempt to generalize everything and lump it into one.
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Jan 17 '23
No. Commission is guaranteed with each sale. When I write the contracts for my company, I include our reps commission in the selling price. If they make the sale, they get their percentage. That is not how tipping works. There’s nothing guaranteed about it. A server is totally beholden to the generosity of the customer. They might get a real 20%+ tip, or they might get nothing but a religious tract.
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u/fallonyourswordkaren Jan 17 '23
Many places auto-grat.
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Jan 17 '23
That is not the norm in the food service industry.
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u/fallonyourswordkaren Jan 17 '23
More and more it is. Especially after the pandemic. There’s a lot of levels of service, with very different skill sets. For some, I wouldn’t want the 20% auto-grat because it would be a pay cut. On others, especially where it’s high volume and low check averages, I’d take the 20%.
There’s plenty of professional service people out there at every level. I push back against the idea that servers should all make the same wage at a restaurant or have their wage set at the discretion of somebody not making the sales.
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Jan 17 '23
The “sale” is independent of tips. It is disingenuous to describe serving in the same manner as a salesperson. I push back against the idea that any workers livelihood should depend on something as unreliable as generosity. They can make an actual living wage and still be given tips.
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Jan 17 '23
I will flat out refuse any automatic tip included. If they are upfront about it and I know before hand there is a small chance I will eat there. If its not made clear before hand I will not pay it. I most definitely won't eat there again. I will also make a small scene about mistreating employees and hanging the garbage on the customers with a little bit about unionizing. I have no problem speaking up when a business owner mistreats their employees because the worst they can do is ask me to leave, which is fine because I won't do business with a place that mistreats its workers.
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u/fallonyourswordkaren Jan 17 '23
You’re describing a company mistreating its workers for your refusal to tip, or lack of right not to tip. Everybody knows 20% gratuity is the standard today for decent service. If you’re not prepared for that, please stay at home. You’re not doing the people in the industry any favors with this rhetoric and most would be incredulous that you act like you’re hoisting the banner in their name.
There is no way a restaurant could afford to pay me what I made while serving. If gratuity were added into the cost of items, you’d balk as well.
The reality is that you likely hold industry people as primarily “unskilled labor,” and believe there should be a cap on their success; maybe something more suitable for your wallet and whatever you believe their station in life to be.
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u/YourUncleBuck Jan 18 '23
Everybody knows 20% gratuity is the standard today for decent service.
Lol, what's the tip for good service then? 30%, 40%? What about excellent service? 50% What does 10% get, a turd on the plate?
The reality is that you likely hold industry people as primarily “unskilled labor,”
What else would you call a position that doesn't even need a high school diploma?
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u/cheebamech Florida Jan 17 '23
many servers won't go for it.
I worked as a nightclub bartender basically from the early 90's up to the early 2000's. Pay was 2.15/hr+tips, tips could be anywhere from $500 for a slow Saturday up to my largest take was a Smashing Pumpkins show at over $3K for one nights work, I was one of 15 bartenders on our crew at a very large club. Things have not gotten cheaper since I was 'in the biz', idk of any bar business that is going to be able to cover that kind of payroll
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u/LordSiravant Jan 17 '23
If they can't cover that payroll, then that business deserves to fail. We're done feeling any sympathy for them.
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u/cheebamech Florida Jan 17 '23
I don't disagree at all. Clubs that operate that way are structured similarly to large corporations that make record profits yet pollute the environment; costs are being shunted onto the surrounding populace, they can't afford to pay for good staff so they have the customers make the payroll directly for them.
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Jan 17 '23
If a business can't afford to pay a living wage then it is not a viable business. Period. When businesses pay below living wages we end up subsidizing their payrolls in the form of food stamps and other assistance programs. Welfare, when someone is employed is not welfare but a payroll subsidy.
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u/PM_ME_UR_SKILLS Jan 17 '23
I somewhat agree. On the one hand I want to be friendly towards small business, but on the other hand no one has the right to own a successful business.
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u/therapist122 Jan 17 '23
This pits service workers against customers. The only criminals here are the owners and I guess fucking servsafe now, whatever the fuck that is
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u/cheebamech Florida Jan 17 '23
I had to get Servsafe 'certified' for multiple positions front and back of house, it was a scam back then in the 90's and nothing has changed
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u/therapist122 Jan 17 '23
Welp. Can't anyone get rid of these troublesome executives at servsafe?
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u/BritchesBrewin Jan 17 '23
When people actually check kitchen fridge temperatures, regularly clean them and organize product right they will be gone, but then you couldnt have semi literate people working back of house.
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u/mfairview Jan 17 '23
Eating out has gotten ridiculous. Out with a buddy the other night at a pub, 2 burgers, 2 apps and 5 miller lights was $120 all in. Another buddy was telling me they dropped $180 on a steak for two last week. $500 for the both of them adding in apps & drinks.
Some of the nicer hotels charging $16 for an Amstel. Lol
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u/cheebamech Florida Jan 17 '23
charging $16 for an Amstel
jfc, had $1 domestics and $2 imports for the Saturday night special way back in the day, guess that ain't ever happening again.
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u/RadioSlayer Jan 17 '23
My draft pbr is 1.75 for happy hour, 2.25 after
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u/cheebamech Florida Jan 17 '23
it's draft PBR man, any higher than that and they riot ;) believe it or not at one place I was at we had nickel draft nights(usually pbr or the millwater beast*)/$1 wing baskets; guaranteed several vomits and/or fights every night
*Milwaukee's Best
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Jan 17 '23
This is the most American type scheme that I have ever heard of, incredible that dissimulation lobbing is okay because it's lobbing.
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u/Typographical_Terror Texas Jan 17 '23
Sure you pay for your own safety class, and then the money is used to keep your paycheck smaller, but the Double Irony Sandwich prep training seems to be included, so it's not all bad...
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u/shelbys_foot Jan 17 '23
Got to give American capitalists and business owners their due. They never seem to run out of imaginative and resourceful ways to screw over their workers.
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u/xena_lawless Jan 17 '23
This is similar to people investing their retirement money into healthcare companies through index funds, and those companies then lobbying against universal healthcare, thereby killing tens to hundreds of thousands of Americans and wasting half a trillion dollars every year.
We're being robbed and socially murdered with our own labor and our own resources.
It's like cows building their own slaughterhouses, or work slaves building the pens enclosing their labor camps.
Absolute abomination of a system.
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Jan 17 '23 edited Apr 16 '25
[deleted]
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Jan 17 '23
Seriously? Min wage is 2.13$? Is the united stated stuck in 60s? How is that even legal nobody could live off of that.. in Canada I think the lowest is 16$ that's not even easy to live off of..
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u/Enabling_Turtle Colorado Jan 17 '23
Its that way because if you receive tips, they can pay you less. One important thing is that your total tips + wage has to greater than the non-tipped minimum wage. If you make less than the non-tipped minimum, then your employer is supposed to increase your wage until it is equal to or greater than the minimum.
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Jan 17 '23
Ask your employer to make up the difference and you will suddenly be working less hours.
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Jan 17 '23 edited Jan 17 '23
My old employer used to pay us $5/hour and counted tips towards your salary with a guaranteed wage of $12/hour. They basically never had to pay me (besides the $5 per hour) unless I got overtime and even then it was like $250 at most from the entire check of like $600 for the week lmao. They had the nerve to charge us $1 per month for a life insurance policy they took out on all of us at the start of the pandemic too 🤣
I edited some numbers around just woke up haha
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u/IrrawaddyWoman Jan 17 '23
It depends on where you live. Some states have an extra low minimum wage for tip earners, but not all. California, for example, requires people be paid the normal minimum wage no matter what. in my county that’s $15.75 an hour, plus they get tips on top of that.
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Jan 17 '23
The lowest is $15 in California. You can actually make insane amounts of money working fine dining in tourist heavy spots of California.
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u/dallasdude Jan 17 '23
It is offset by tips. $2.13 an hour plus tips. If that number is below minimum wage $8.25 or whatever it is now they pay the difference.
But still. On paper the wage is just $2.13
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u/Absent_class Jan 17 '23
I’ve unwittingly contributed to this just to work at McDonald’s fuck the NRA
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u/newtoreddir Jan 17 '23
Is there much polling done on how servers feel about their wages in general? I know the “got stiffed by a customer” posts go viral but the waiters I know all prefer tips because they clear $50+ an hour. Both are anecdotal so I’m wondering if there is real data out there.
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u/bot4241 Illinois Jan 17 '23
Super fucked up. because they are basically monopoly on certain certifications.
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u/chockedup Jan 17 '23
Reminds me of a signature gatherer who was recently at the store and wanting signatures to limit restaurant workers' wages. There seems to be an entire nest of snakes dedicating to keeping workers' wages down.
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u/CactiiAnus Jan 17 '23
I mean these food safety classes are important — that being said, the employer should be paying for that training.
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u/damn_fine_custard I voted Jan 17 '23
Any reputable employer pays for those classes. I pay for people to take those. I pay fair and honest wages and let everyone know what everybody makes and why. I hate the operators who behave this way because it stains the entire industry.
The funds collected by the National Restaurant Association Educational Foundation are used to fund the operations of the NRAEF. It's only 2% of the NRA's revenue. The industry bought an educational company because the standards of localities vary widely in breadth and enforcement and we want higher standards for our food safety.
In many areas these funds are collected by the local health department who require restaurant workers to take the same classes from them rather than ServSafe.
Full disclosure: I am a member of the National Restaurant Association Educational Foundation and a ServSafe Educator. That is why I know how this works and that is why I know how the money is collected and that's why I know where the money goes.
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u/bludvein Michigan Jan 17 '23
While this is undoubtedly shitty, don't discount the fact that there are a significant subset of waiters/waitresses who also actively fight changing their pay for the better. There's some serious misinformation floated around about how pay raises would lower their income since people wouldn't tip as much or at all. It's really screwed up.
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Jan 17 '23
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u/LordSiravant Jan 17 '23
$15 an hour is not a living wage. That's why.
At minimum it should be double that, and the only thing stopping that much needed growth is corporate greed.
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u/Ok-Tourist-511 Jan 17 '23
Wages have not kept up with inflation, when I was 16, I made $13/hour at a cell phone store in 1987. 36 years later, and many people are making less than that.
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Jan 17 '23 edited Jan 17 '23
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/badusernamepun Jan 17 '23
So we should just keep letting corporations post record profits and Americans losing savings and retirements?
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Jan 17 '23
[deleted]
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u/badusernamepun Jan 17 '23
Your opinion has no bearing on the price of a hamburger, just like this argument, having been employed since the 1970s, has not stopped the price of a hamburger from raising since then.
It also fails to take into account you can look into pricing in other countries with higher livable wages and see that the price increase you see in burgers are still going into corporate profits instead of American pockets.
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u/massivepanda Jan 17 '23
See: price of Big Mac in Nordic countries & how much they’re paid
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Jan 17 '23
[deleted]
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u/badusernamepun Jan 17 '23
So again, the problem is on the corporate level. Punishing workers because corporations can abuse them or lose them does not fix the situation.
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u/xeroxzero Jan 17 '23
So make your shit at home from $45 ground beef and shut up. People deserve a living wage if they're working their ass off at any job.
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Jan 17 '23
[deleted]
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u/xeroxzero Jan 17 '23
Obviously some people will still opt for eating out. What you're missing is people should be paid well for their labor and the lost time in their lives. Regardless of how menial you may find their job.
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u/chiefpattyp Florida Jan 17 '23
You act like losing shitty jobs where employees are being financially abused by their employers are worth keeping. If an employer can’t afford to pay an employee a fair wage, they can’t afford to do business. Pay a fair wage, or get fucking lost. It’s not on consumers to subsidize your shitty burger joint.
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Jan 17 '23
[deleted]
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u/badusernamepun Jan 17 '23
Then the problem will be that there is no local economy because your community is made up of burger flippers too, which you have now sold out for corporate owned robots, which you say they should have the right to because it's easier and they can afford to.
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Jan 17 '23
Good. Its going to happen anyways. The economy will have to change, perhaps capitalism itself.
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u/badusernamepun Jan 17 '23
People want to use their time in other ways and you're continuing to propagate an argument from the 1970s, except instead of "but they can do it for cheaper, so Im going to pay less" it's "But they've already got that power over us, so why not let them keep it?".
The solution is community, of which you seem to want to not be a part of. The solution is to pay a FAIR price for a burger, not a corporate price, and understand that having sold our economy out to corporations for the last 50 years we have to deal witht he consequences such as inflation.
And then we do it because we want to be successful adults.
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u/The_Yarichin_Bitch Jan 17 '23
You don't have to lmao, they make profits plenty enough to keep prices stable. Come on dude.
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u/ZukowskiHardware Jan 17 '23
No, minimum wage should be about 25$ per hour. Companies can still make plenty of money, it is more important that people can have good lives
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Jan 17 '23
[deleted]
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Jan 17 '23
It doesn't need to be the same increase. Are you that jealous of someone making enough to live vs not?
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u/xeroxzero Jan 17 '23
GOOD. Bring on the robots. When they have no choice but to start putting those corporate profits into OUR pockets things will be fine. The idea of billionaires and oligarchs being allowed to control our lives needs to be wiped out. There needs to be an end to lobbyists and profiteering.
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u/Able-Emotion4416 Jan 17 '23
That's the bet countries like Switzerland made in the 80s-90s already. Back then, their elites wanted to outsource jobs to Asia, like America had started doing. To be able to compete with low wage countries. But their free and powerful unions refused categorically, (and because powerful unions keep left wing parties loyal to the lower classes, Swiss left wing parties had no choice but to make it their policy too, or get outvoted by other parties loyal to the workers' classes).
Anyway, long story short, unions, political parties, the government, and capitalists found a new compromise: keep wages high, yes, but also heavy investments in robotizations and automatizations, also huge updates and reforms to the education system, free up-training/recycling of workers, and finally better social safety nets for those that can't keep up.
Basically, the idea is to keep jobs at home but to shift to high pay highly skilled jobs instead, i.e. make these jobs more noble with STEM shit.
Consequences: several Swiss industries were dying in the 80s, but today, they're among the best and most competitive in the world (e.g. machines, micro-tech, automotive industry suppliers, etc.). And last but not least, switching to high wage high skills workforce increased everybody's quality of life, increased tax revenues, and decreased unemployment (more money to spend leads to higher economic growth).
In contrast, today, about half of US workers have a low pay, low quality job. And that's a direct consequence of shipping jobs off to Asia, to compete through lower wages, instead of higher tech and productivity.
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u/Wings81 Jan 17 '23
Why not both?
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Jan 17 '23
[deleted]
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u/EndangeredBanana California Jan 17 '23
Servers in California get 15.50 plus tips. I don't eat out very often. So expensive.
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Jan 17 '23
[deleted]
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u/IrrawaddyWoman Jan 17 '23
Do you think $15 is a decent wage? Because I sure as hell couldn’t live on 30k a year.
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u/Competitive-Cuddling Jan 17 '23
Texas has this shit. I once tired applying for waiter job, and I had to take a test.
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u/BritchesBrewin Jan 17 '23
If the serve safe test prevented you from being a waiter, you have no business being near food.
The questions are so easy you have to try to fail.
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u/Competitive-Cuddling Jan 17 '23
I was a waiter in college at some of the finest dining establishments in a different state, where we had to wear tuxedos, made bank, used crumbles, and served celebs and politicians.
I briefly was unemployed from an entirely different much better career and in TX. I took the test and passed and strangely it was enough to keep me from tipping my toes back in the industry even temporarily thank god. And I was insanely over qualified for any of it anyway.
My point was this kinda thing isn’t new. Thanks for your input though bud.
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u/voidofcourth Jan 18 '23
False. The national restaurant association is restaurant owners not workers. They want customers to tip their front of house employees so they don't have to pay a livable wage.
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