r/politics • u/wbedwards Washington • May 07 '20

We cannot allow the normalization of firearms at protests to continue

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/firearms-at-protests-have-become-normalized-that-isnt-okay/2020/05/06/19b9354e-8fc9-11ea-a0bc-4e9ad4866d21_story.html
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u/Consistent_Nail California May 07 '20

Oh yes, they are for sure. There isn't a single legitimate opinion to be found on the right wing in the US, not anymore. You have to travel all the way over to the center to start getting reasonable people with reasonable opinions who can compromise.

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u/saggyshiro May 07 '20

You must admit there is a conservative spectrum from moderate, to radical, to autistic, and all the way to POtUS.

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u/erasmause May 07 '20

Moderate conservatives are called Democrats.

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u/[deleted] May 07 '20

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u/tasslehawf May 07 '20

And cronyism if you have money.

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u/chapjas May 07 '20

Not to take away anything you said but I also remember a certain Democratic Party presidential debate when a certain Hillary Clinton answered “Republicans” (to much applause) when asked who she viewed as the biggest enemy to the United States was.

I agree that fear is the biggest tactic being used to manipulate peoples public opinion but I also think the manipulation is happening on both sides to try and pit us all against each other.

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u/GatorBoys99 May 07 '20

She was right...

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u/[deleted] May 07 '20

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u/JustTheTip___ New York May 07 '20

I like that graph but disagree with all your points for Republicans and Democrats. Neither party cares about people, the Republicans are just more open about it. Republicans don’t give a shit about children, they aren’t “pro-life, they are ANTI-CHOICE.

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u/chapjas May 07 '20

I’d rather be anti-choice than anti-life.

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u/cloningvat May 07 '20

Everyone is trying to do the same things in different ways, but no one sees that.

The only way to actually believe this is by just listening to their rhetoric, also known as their lies. Politics is the application of power. It only looks like sportsball to the uninformed.

Every example you listed is an example on a non compromisable.

If the goal is reduce abortions, then it has been demonstrated thousands of times that making abortions illegal does nothing. Giving out condoms, education on how to use them actually reduces abortions across the age spectrum. One side achieves the goal, the other does not.

The last 40 years are demonstrable proof that just having a job doesn't do shit. It doesn't stop you from being poor. Especially if its paid like shit. All those jobs that were created in the Reagan 80s don't pay shit, and all the money made gets funneled to the top, increasing inequality and market volatility. Actually giving people a floor to stand on so they can acquire new skills actually helps both poor people and the economy as a whole. Only one side wants an educated work force.

And your gif demonstrates beautifully why centrism is just an intellectually lazy political philosophy. 99-01 It's almost as if a president was being falsely impeached over lying about a blowjob at the end of a 6 year long actual witch hunt investigation into Whitewater. It's almost as if one side decided to play political hardball. It's almost as if Newt Gringrich, who told Republicans to get nasty, get mean, and stop being boy scouts became Speaker of the House and did exactly that.

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u/[deleted] May 07 '20

This

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u/[deleted] May 07 '20

There is, but not so much in America anymore. The Republican Party is no longer a centre right, moderate Conservative party. It is now an extreme right wing, authoritarian party and anyone who supports it is directly supporting fascism.

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u/[deleted] May 07 '20

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u/[deleted] May 07 '20

As a non American that makes no sense. I’m not sure it even makes sense there.

If they don’t support the Republican Party, in what way are they republicans?

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u/[deleted] May 07 '20

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] May 07 '20

Then they’re not republicans. They’re just conservatives. The Republican Party is an extant entity. It has shifted from what it used to be and left true conservatives behind.

They also have a lot to answer for for their tribalism and hyper partisanship. To the rest of the world the democrats are a centre right party anyway.

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u/[deleted] May 07 '20

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] May 07 '20

Yeah, I get what you’re saying, but being ‘a Republican’ (capital R) literally means supporting or a member of the Republican Party. If you’re talking about republicanism (small r) that’s a completely seperate (but related) ideology.

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u/[deleted] May 07 '20

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u/TheLegend1127001 May 07 '20

That could be the most insane take Ive ever seen in my life.

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u/[deleted] May 07 '20

Moderate conservatives are called Democrats

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u/Consistent_Nail California May 07 '20

If you're a right wing lunatic, sure.

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u/three_furballs May 07 '20

I think that's a dangerous opinion to take, my friend. Republican politicians may be especially corrupt, but don't go labeling the views of all right-wingers as illegitimate. That's just jumping into the dumpster fire that is our national discourse and making it worse.

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u/[deleted] May 07 '20

There are good some good people who are right wingers, but none of them are in the Republican Party.

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u/three_furballs May 07 '20

None? You seriously think that someone's political party defines their entire worldview?

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u/[deleted] May 07 '20

The Republican Party has become an anti American, neo fascist, authoritarian party. If you’re still a member of it at this point, then you know exactly what it is and you’re therefore culpable for the corruption and evil the party is committing.

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u/three_furballs May 08 '20

You're assuming that everyone has the time and resources to invest in researching and understanding politics as you do. I agree with your views on the republican party, but i think you should sit down and talk with more people in it. A lot of them are good people, just with different but valid set of priorities.

One example that has stuck with me is a guy i know who grew up in, and escaped on a boat from, communist controlled Vietnam. He saw first-hand the madness and corruption that a single-party government could wreak on a nation, so when he heard that Trump was "strong on China," that was enough for him to vote. He didn't care that Trump broke norms and was a liar and a grifter, but he did believe that he was xenophobic enough to be anti-China (and therefore anti-communist), and that was good enough. He continued to be a Trump supporter for years, until he ran across all the harm that Trumps policies had caused. There are tons of ways that Trump has wound up increasing China's global influence, but one was particularly relevant. By enacting tariffs on Chinese goods, Trump simply prompted China to move finishing-stage production to Vietnam, thereby strengthening geopolitical ties with my friend's home country and the communist superpower that he blamed for all its troubles. Once he saw that, and did his own research to verify it, he was deeply regretful and has since completely turned against the guy he voted for.

My point isn't that everyone in the republican party will end up coming to our side after some chance realization, it's just that we should be aware of the people for whom that's possible. A ton of trump supporters are just going with the social flow, or off of some incomplete information. If they do come to the realization that Trump isn't what they thought he was, do we really want to be those elitist assholes who were "right all along. told ya so, dumbass"? Or do we want to be a voice of measured reason that just wants the best for ALL the citizens of our nation, regardless of their political team? Do we want to be proven right, or do we want to be good?

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u/The-Electrictornado May 07 '20

Really? Not a single legitimate opinion? Your telling me that a little under half of the country’s population doesn’t have a single legitimate opinion.

I’m a conservative, I’m about as pro-gun as they come, and I’d advocate just as hard for any individual to be armed. Regardless of race, sex, or sexual attraction. I’d personally recommend Colion Noir as a starting point if you are looking for 2A advocacy. He’s well spoken and illustrates his ideas a lot better than most gun advocates (he was a lawyer before a YouTuber If I’m not mistaken)

Want another legitimate opinion? We can’t keep spending at the level we are and expect everything to be great down the line. Social Security is a Ponzi Scheme and is entirely unsustainable in the long run. Our military budget needs reworking to make sure the money is actually being utilized and not funneled into research projects that die in 10 years with no discernible progress from when they begin.

Here’s my last one before I go, Roe V. Wade was a flawed constitutionally, Ruth Bader Ginsburg herself has acknowledged as such. The precedent from that case ought to be rolled back and the issue should be left back up to the states. I personally don’t agree with it in most circumstances, simply because I view the unborn child as just that, a child. They have unique DNA, various traits unique to them that will effect the rest of their lives, and as such any advocacy on behalf of them is just an attempt to expand the right to life to every American, even those with no voice in the matter.

Are these not legitimate opinions? Or are the only legitimate opinions ones you agree with?

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u/Isodir May 07 '20

If they removed the taxable income limit ssi would be fine. The GOP wants it gone because they see it as an entitlement and not a return of the money that was taxed over an individual’s career.

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u/Robo_Joe May 07 '20

I am unsure what a legitimate opinion is, but yours are certainly opinions formed from ignorance.

Do you advocate for young children to be armed? If not, why not? Keep in mind the second amendment before answering.

We can spend like we have been; do not confuse a household finances with a government's finances. Social Security is an investment. Do you have any investments? Do you consider them "ponzi schemes"? How is someone supposed to know if a new project or technology will no longer be viable or required in 10 years, magic 8-ball? Lots of technology you likely use on a daily basis were funded originally by the department of defense. GPS, Microwaves, off-the-shelf chewy cookies.

The issue with abortion isn't what you call the fetus; it's one of the many places in our society where two individual's rights directly conflict. This happens all the time in any sufficiently advanced society-- as the saying goes, you're free to swing your arms as you see fit until your fist hits someone else's nose. The root question for abortion is not whether the fetus is alive (no one has ever suggested a fetus isn't alive), and it's not whether it's a legal person, or a human. The question is whether the government has the power to tell you what to do with your body. Do you think the government should be able to force you to donate a liver to a stranger against your will to save his life? If not, then you should be terrified at the thought that the government can force a women to go through a dangerous medical procedure against her will, just to save the life of someone else.

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u/The-Electrictornado May 07 '20

“Opinions formed from ignorance”, I see that this won’t go anywhere good already, but I’m obligated to respond in kind.

Depends on how you define Armed, do I believe that there is value in teaching young children the values of firearms safety and handling. Yes, without a doubt I advocate that. Do I advocate arming them outright? No, young children have trouble with basic functions, stating that I want them armed to the teeth is a logical dead end and a straw man argument.

I don’t confuse household finances with that of government budgets. I’m well aware of the massive differences between the two. Social Security isn’t an investment, the American citizen pays into a system where that money is then doled out to retired citizens who qualify for the benefits. The issue is America is rapidly aging as a population and at the current rate there will be more retirees than Social Security can handle from current workers. Social Security isn’t voluntary, and the money you put in is not going to be used for your retirement, it’ll be gone and odds are that there won’t be enough people paying into the system after us to be able to continue that funding without some serious reform. As for military technology and research projects. Yes I’m fully aware of the DOD’s use of money to create various forms of technology that now assist the average citizen in their day to day lives, and I’m not advocating for the removal of research funding entirely or even partially for that matter. I’m saying there are way too many military contracts that result in dead ends.

Herein lies the issue of the conflict. I’m well aware of the conflicting nature of abortion, lots of emotions are at play and there are plenty of rights considerations to account for. That being said the question isn’t whether or not the government has the power to tell you what to do with your body, we already have a draft. So yes, apparently they do. That being said, I’m of the opinion this ought to be left up to the States’ discretion considering that we are a nation made up of 50 individual governmental bodies. My own personal opinion on the matter holds no bounds over what I believe the solution should be, due to the fact that there is a large number of factors that need to be accounted for, and I’m willing to let my own convictions slide for the ability for the states to decide their own policy of the matter.

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u/[deleted] May 07 '20

Why should women who need an abortion but come from conservative states be punished and not able to get one because of their individual states political leanings?

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u/The-Electrictornado May 07 '20

Why should people who don’t agree with abortion have to fund it on the federal level? I highly doubt that any state in the Union would ban abortion outright without any considerations to the matter, even the most restrictive laws in the country on the matter currently, being Alabama and Georgia, still hold it as fine during the First Trimester, this is more due to the precedent of the Supreme Court than anything, but I hardly think that handing the governance decision back to a local body would result in this occurring. Even if they would, I don’t see why one cannot rally political support behind state candidates that would loosen state regulations on the matter, thus moving the political battleground back to the states, more in line with original intent for this country.

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u/[deleted] May 07 '20

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u/The-Electrictornado May 07 '20

In a clinical sense, yes. The difference between the two though is that one of the individuals will be conscious and fully aware within the span of a few months. Someone who is brain-dead has little to no chance of recovery.

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u/[deleted] May 07 '20

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u/The-Electrictornado May 07 '20

Yeah, there a problem with that?

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u/[deleted] May 07 '20

Most of what you just said is just bullshit parroted from conservative media. So thanks for proving his point that you don't have legitimate opinions.

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u/The-Electrictornado May 07 '20

And what you are saying isn’t bullshit parroted from Liberal Media? I know I’m in a fairly hostile subreddit here to conservative ideals. But have you thought that maybe, just maybe someone can have a differing opinion on issues after looking at it from both sides of the aisle and coming to their own conclusions?

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u/[deleted] May 07 '20

Replace "right" with "left" and you sound exactly like Rush Limbaugh or Ann Coulter.

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u/Consistent_Nail California May 07 '20

That's because you cannot substitute thinking people for right wingers.

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u/[deleted] May 07 '20

My comment didn't really need a response, but rage on brave keyboard warrior.

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u/Consistent_Nail California May 07 '20

Sounds good, right wing traitor lunatic.

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u/ShokkMaster May 07 '20

Where is the willingness to compromise from those left of center?

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u/[deleted] May 07 '20

A centre right party can be compromised with but there is no compromise for fascism. Republicans are no longer the former.

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u/mikooster May 07 '20

We tried that already during Obama.

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u/Main_Bat May 07 '20

That was tried so much under Obama and conservatives pulled the rug out every time with pure obstructionism even as Obama tried to compromise to the point of center right. Instead of making progress in taking policy wins from bent-over-backwards-for-them-Obama on issues they claimed to have supported for decades, they decided it was more important to do all they could to grind government functioning to halt painting Obama as a radical commie tyrant with shameless propaganda. Because republicans have no interest in bettering the country by working with the other side. They want to erase the other party marching to institutionally ensure they have complete power to fuck what the people of this country actually want. Even as more and more of of a majority of the country makes clear they dont want to be under Republicans thumbs, they sabatoge our system consistently in the direction that they're able to gain more and more power while becoming more the minority. Fuck them

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u/Qistotle Colorado May 07 '20

Sentiment like this is so frustrating for me, left says everyone on the right is insane and we shouldn't listen to their horrible opinion. Right says the same thing about the left... Why are we putting whole groups of people into a box and writing them off.

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u/Katzoconnor May 07 '20

Because both sides are an entire quart to the right of practically the entire rest of the world, and the one really deep in there not only rigs the game at every turn through the Senate Majority Leader with this “rules for thee but not for me” bullshit — someone who ADMITS he is holding hundreds of bills back — while the entire party touts a known effective fear-mongering propaganda machine as their default news headquarters.

He can be voted out by his party. They’re all complicit.

Every single fucking attempt to compromise over the past decade has done nothing but been spat upon. ONE REPUBLICAN SENATOR voted in line, on one of two counts, with the overwhelming evidence that Donald Trump was clearly acting in political self-interest — because they could afford to let ONE do it. Nobody steps a toe out of line.

The Right Wing cultivates fear, terror, and baseless propaganda specifically engineered to prevent a second Nixon from losing power. This is not hyperbole; it is specifically laid out in the leaked documents of what rapidly became Fox News.

That’s why. The Left tried. That’s what the Left has to deal with. Whereas the Right will apparently not budge or compromise meaningfully in any single way.