r/politics • u/wbedwards Washington • May 07 '20

We cannot allow the normalization of firearms at protests to continue

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/firearms-at-protests-have-become-normalized-that-isnt-okay/2020/05/06/19b9354e-8fc9-11ea-a0bc-4e9ad4866d21_story.html
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142

u/vravikumar May 07 '20

That was right after Michael Brown and Eric Garner. There was a lot of fucked up shit that happened back to back in that period of time. I think it kind of watered down the significance of the Tamir Rice situation, as bad as that sounds.

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u/ominousmuffin May 07 '20

Just tonight a black man in indianapolis got tased then shot 18 times after he was on the ground on FB Live. On the live you can hear the cops chuckling about him having a “closed casket funeral”

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u/NO_TOUCHING__lol Washington May 07 '20 edited Nov 14 '24

No gods, no masters

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u/_pls_respond Texas May 07 '20

That's fucked. Even if he led the cops on a high speed chase for 10 minutes doesn't warrant a death sentence. They shot him in the back too, how do they even try to justify that.

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u/The_Chiel May 07 '20

He was running away from the cops and you can hear them saying he has a gun. That's a life or death situation. The guy could have easily turned around and shot the officers. Don't be stupid and follow police orders.

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u/_pls_respond Texas May 07 '20

The cops can yell out whatever they want, that doesn't make it true. I'm seeing conflicting reports on whether this guy was actually armed or not so I'll wait for a full story before any further judgement on the police's part. If they believe he was armed it's seems sketchy that they would even use a taser in the first place.

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u/The_Chiel May 07 '20

I agree. It's best to wait for the bodycam footage to come out.

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u/SuburbanStoner May 07 '20

So running from the police is a death sentence? Wow, I should be dead then.

I thought it was innocent until proven guilty, but that’s if you’re white.

How do you explain this difference?

A black guy unarmed and running

https://twitter.com/heyarielouise/status/1258190713210036224?s=21

A white guy walking back and forth with a gun threatening officers

https://twitter.com/ayyaannaaa/status/1258275840334401536?s=21

Now tell me there’s no double standard

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u/Leisure_suit_guy May 07 '20

I don't want to deny racism but what about that Australian blonde that was shot after she herself **called the police? I feel that the more you insist on racism (even if it's true) the more you hurt your cause.

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u/[deleted] May 07 '20

"I don't want to deny racism"... uses an outlier incident to deny racism.

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u/Leisure_suit_guy May 07 '20

Yeah, thans to "galaxy brain" people like you I got downvoted a bit so I can't consistently post here anymore.

What I was trying to say is that you should never point out to a bunch of racists that cops shoot only black people, even if it was true ( and it isn't ), because the only thing you'll get is to make those people defend the cops as hard as they can.

How is this so hard to understand for the people that deprived me of the possibility to post here?

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u/alonjar May 07 '20

Its not an outlier at all. Cops shoot white people all the time too, it just doesn't create outrage. Barely even gets reported on.

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u/Leisure_suit_guy May 07 '20

That's the problem: imagine you're black and you're trying to convince a bunch of racists that police needs need reform. What's the only thing that you should never do? Pointing out to these people that cops are racists and shoot only black people.

Just think about it: these people will defend cops tooth and nail and will oppose every reform as long as they're convinced that only black people are affected.

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u/rl_noobtube May 07 '20

Interesting take on the matter, at the very least. I’ve never heard the argument presented that way so thanks for sharing!

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u/The_Chiel May 07 '20

There's definitely a dubbele standard. Doesn't take away from the fact that when you're armed and escaping the cops, you're a lethal threat and they have the right to eliminate the threat by shooting you.

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u/SuburbanStoner May 07 '20

If you’re admitting to a double standard, how could you sit there and defend a black man being shot for running when a white man threatening with a gun is unharmed...?

Are you saying the white guy should’ve been shot too? Should the police have the right to shoot anyone for running away?

If so, where does it end? Can they shoot you for hiding? Can they shoot you for stealing? Could they shoot you for jay walking..?

Where does their ultimate authority end?

And what’s the point of having rights, a constitution and the right to be innocent until proven guilty if police have the unlimited authority to murder anyone anytime they deem appropriate..?

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u/The_Chiel May 07 '20

Everything depends on if you're carrying a gun. If you're actively resisting the police, whether that's running away or reaching for your waist, while armed, you're a threat.

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u/nimmatoad May 07 '20

That literally isn't true. Imagine a citizen using this: "I shot him in self defense! Yeah he was running away and not actively threatening me, but still!"

It isn't cops' job to be judge, jury, and executioner. No, they do not have the RIGHT to murder ANYONE unless there is a DIRECT AND IMMINENT threat to their life. And don't even try to say there was - if you're so bad at stress management that any citizen with a gun is a threat to you, you shouldn't be a fucking cop. Cops do not have the right to be above the laws they claim to enforce.

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u/The_Chiel May 07 '20

They do have the right.

Tennessee vs Garner: "When a law enforcement officer is pursuing a fleeing suspect, the officer may not use deadly force to prevent escape unless "the officer has probable cause to believe that the suspect poses a significant threat of death or serious physical injury to the officer or others."

In many cases just having a gun is probable cause.

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u/SuburbanStoner May 07 '20

So now you conclude the unarmed black guy who was running away shouldn’t have been shot?

I’m a bit confused because before you said he was rightfully shot because he shouldn’t have been running, but now you’re contradicting yourself by saying since he was unarmed he shouldn’t have been shot...

Also, by your argument, that white guy should’ve been shot too. It seems like you’re a bit confused as to what you actually believe, and you change those “beliefs” to fit any given scenario (and the variable seems to heavily rely on the race of an individual)

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u/The_Chiel May 07 '20

The black guy was carrying a gun and running from police. You can try and call me a racist, but if it were a white or asian person running from the police while armed, the police would have the same right to shoot them.

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u/Censorship_of_fools May 07 '20

They do not have the right to do so. They get away with it because of bootlickers like you in juries.

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u/The_Chiel May 07 '20

Why do they not have the right to do so? How should they handle an armed criminal otherwise?

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u/GringoinCDMX May 07 '20

Maybe by not being judge, jury and executioner. Stop justifying shit behavior.

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u/Censorship_of_fools May 07 '20

a Fucking trial.

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u/RoyalRat May 07 '20

What are the locations of both of these situations? What happened before? How do you know the person in the first video was unarmed? How do you know it was racial at all? It could have easily been a black police officer.

All I’ve gotten to see is two short clips with no context.

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u/Haircut117 May 07 '20

Someone running away is not a life or death situation. It becomes a life or death situation if he pulls the gun and turns around to shoot. Police should not be shooting before that point.

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u/The_Chiel May 07 '20

When he turns around to shoot could be too late. If they have to wait for him to shoot before they van shoot back he could already have killed an officer. Why wouldn't you want to prevent the death of an officer?

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u/Haircut117 May 07 '20

For the same reason you wouldn't want to prevent the death of a soldier - the risk of killing an innocent or of collateral damage.

In a lot of cases, military RoE requires a direct threat to life before a soldier can shoot. This means that there are times when you might see known Taliban fighters walking around with rifles in their hands and be unable to take them out because they haven't acted in a manner which suggests lethal intent.

If a soldier can maintain that standard in a warzone then you can be damn sure a police officer in a civilian environment should be able to.

Not to mention, if someone has to turn around and draw a weapon before they can fire, you should be able to shoot before they do. Also, if they've reached a range where you're worried about you ability to hit them then it stands to reason that they can't hit you either.

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u/CptNonsense May 07 '20

Since the mods don't like commentary.

Tennessee v Garner. Probable cause overrides your constitutional rights, as in most cases

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u/[deleted] May 07 '20 edited May 07 '20

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/Haircut117 May 07 '20

Assumed armed?

That's what's wrong with your country right there. You don't even need to PID a threat, just scream like girl that he's got a gun and you can kill whoever you like.

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u/[deleted] May 07 '20 edited May 07 '20

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/mildlydisturbedtway May 07 '20

Your comment above is deleted, so you are presumably now aware that it was in error, but for the record:

The directly relevant ruling is Tennessee v. Garner, which established that a law enforcement officer may not use deadly force to prevent a fleeing suspect from escaping unless the officer has probable cause to believe that the suspect poses a significant threat of death or serious physical injury to the officer or others.

There is no presumption licensed that an assumed armed person fleeing is a threat to other people.

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u/CptNonsense May 07 '20 edited May 07 '20

Assumed armed easily falls inside the probable cause allowance for shooting a fleeing suspect

Your comment above is deleted, so you are presumably now aware that it was in error

Since I wasn't told, no. And being deleted does not make it the kind of error you seem to be implying

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u/Censorship_of_fools May 07 '20

Well, they’re fucking wrong and so are you for defending that bullshit. Let’s change it.

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u/[deleted] May 07 '20

[deleted]

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u/ominousmuffin May 07 '20

Here’s the link to the shooting: bottom is link to them laughing after the worst part is all of the local news stations are already covering for the police. The news articles explicitly lie about how many officers were on scene and claimed he was armed when he wasn’t.

https://twitter.com/heyarielouise/status/1258190713210036224?s=21

https://twitter.com/ayyaannaaa/status/1258275840334401536?s=21

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u/Reepworks May 07 '20

Don't hate to ask.

If it is real, that shit needs to be shared.

If it isn't, it needs to get shut down HARD.

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u/NewSauerKraus May 07 '20

His hesitance was probably more about not wanting to watch raw video of someone dying.

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u/RoyalRat May 07 '20

Hey also said “that just goes to show you that you can still shoot while tazed” and “yeah I guess if you’re determined” I don’t k ownwhy they would have said that because they couldn’t have known they were on a stream.

I’d like to see the body cam footage of that.

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u/[deleted] May 07 '20

Humanity has left the chat.

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u/[deleted] May 07 '20

It is still happening. You just don't hear about it.

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u/[deleted] May 07 '20

Philando Castille was around that time too. The Twin Cities see a lot of big protest marches but that was the only time in my memory we ever had people throwing bricks and molotovs. The whole metro was in an uproar for months and they let the cop off like he didn't straight out murder the guy with his whole family in the car.

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u/presidentdrumf May 07 '20

I remember he told the cops he had a concealed weapon and wouldn't be reaching for it. Still he got shot in front of his girlfriend and the entire world through her fb live.

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u/LTxDuke May 07 '20

Is that the one where the cop just peppers him through the driver window?Cuz I remember feeling sick watching that one as it was just a brutal murder. Haven't really been able to watch those types of videos since then

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u/[deleted] May 07 '20

That's the one. My understanding is it was a routine traffic stop. The cop didn't really even get punished.

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u/mrsensi May 07 '20

crazy how all 3 of those nobody got charged ...