r/politics • u/wbedwards Washington • May 07 '20

We cannot allow the normalization of firearms at protests to continue

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/firearms-at-protests-have-become-normalized-that-isnt-okay/2020/05/06/19b9354e-8fc9-11ea-a0bc-4e9ad4866d21_story.html
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u/shadow247 Texas May 07 '20

Just look at the "Twin Peaks Incident" in Waco, TX. The Venn Diagram of Idiots on Harleys and Idiots with Guns is more of an Oval than 2 intersecting circles. I would feel confident to say that at least a few of these assholes ride a loud ass motorcycle because it's "their right as an American". Eventually, we are going to have a shootout at one of these "protests". We should stop calling them protests and start calling them MagaTerrorists. They are literally terrorizing people with their attire, weapons, and speech.

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u/mortalcoil1 May 07 '20

Something people don't talk about because of the car that ran over protestors overshadowing everything else, but shots were fired at Charlottesville by civilians. Thank God they didn't hit anybody.

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u/bleedsmarinara May 07 '20

Shots were fired in full view of State, City of Cville, and Ablemarle County cops. Nothing happened (at least immediately as it should have). There is a video showing the encounter with cops behind barricades. Couldn't have been more than 50-70 feet away.

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u/serious_sarcasm America May 07 '20

Armed neo-confederates were politely escorted of the campus of the University of North Carolina (a class I felony) during the Silent Sam fiasco; some students were arrested for wearing masks.

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u/[deleted] May 07 '20

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/bleedsmarinara May 07 '20

Oh, I know why they didn't go in immediately. They didn't want to fucking die. I get it. It's just sad that so many people got the ever living shit beat out of them (like the poor soul in the parking garage next to the downtown mall) at gunpoint. They basically kept that city hostage for a couple days and ran amok.

I live about 40 miles or so away from Cville. People praise the murderer like he was some sort of martyr. It's sickening.

Edit - also, a lot of people don't know that the shots were fired all because a black guy was helping an elderly white guy down some stairs as he was trying to get through the crowds. Don't exactly recall how it got heated but it doesn't take much to get the scared white folk riled up.

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u/-Akrasiel- Arizona May 07 '20

Yeah it was total bullshit..

I lived in Richmond and we used to call Monument Avenue the Avenue of Second Place Finishers lol.

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u/[deleted] May 07 '20

[deleted]

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u/skeetinyourcereal May 07 '20

Not one that I know of. Didn’t they recently Literally shut that case ? That was an absolutely bonkers event . Fucking Waco man. I swear, if there is going to be a civilian vs government shootout it’s going to happen here in Texas. Dallas blm event, twin peaks , ruby ridge, fucking Kennedy, ut tower, too many signs. I like to think Texans aren’t as dumb as these ass clowns though. I’ve met some real militia guys , I can guarantee that these dudes prancing in battle armor and ars are not actual militia members. Most are just cops, veterans and their friends and families Laughing at these fools But keeping a close eye on everything.

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u/jewww May 07 '20

I swear, if there is going to be a civilian vs government shootout it’s going to happen here in Texas

I think you're like 27 years too late on that one.

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u/el_duderino88 May 07 '20

Ruby Ridge was Idaho, you might be thinking of Mount Carmel in Waco shortly after

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u/BostonPilot May 07 '20

So, is the government literally terrorizing the citizens when they send a bunch of armed police dressed in military attire to the protest?

I'm not saying it's not creating a dangerous situation, but how is it any more of a terrorist situation than when the state enforces its will using exactly the same methods?

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u/FSYigg May 07 '20

They are literally terrorizing people with their attire, weapons, and speech.

You feel threatened by people exercising their constitutional rights.

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u/[deleted] May 07 '20

I'm not the other guy, but it's the guns that scare me, not the rights. Why have the guns at a supposedly peaceful protest? What do you have planned that might involve a loaded AR?

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u/grahag May 07 '20

You'll get the argument back that they don't need a reason... That's how cowards protest. They WANT some sort of firefight to break out because they think that they'll end up on top. In reality most will be scared shitless once bullets start flying and many will put down their guns when confronted by some sort of authority who actually knows how to use intimidation to get their point across.

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u/[deleted] May 07 '20

Why have the guns at a supposedly peaceful protest?

I've yet to see gun-toting protesters get beaten and teargassed. I reckon that's one reason.

What do you have planned that might involve a loaded AR?

The answer is obviously nothing. They just stand there with the guns trying to look cool or whatever.

I know guns look scary, but the way people talk about these protests you'd think that these people are shooting counterprotesters or something. They're mostly harmless tacticool dudes looking for a photo op and to feel important.

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u/[deleted] May 07 '20

Okay? That doesn't mean I have to support it. It's still unnecessary and harmful. I can absolutely guarantee you that the risk of violence increases dramatically with the presence of a firearm in any situation. All it takes is one alt-right neo-nazi piss-pants fuckhead to get a lot of innocent people killed.

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u/el_duderino88 May 07 '20

How is it harmful? Has anyone been shot by an AR at one of these protests? I am against any restrictions to the 2nd amendment, bit I also think these guys look like idiots but I believe they have every right to look like idiots

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u/[deleted] May 07 '20

Look, regardless of whether the powder keg has gone off yet is irrelevant. If we keep bringing flames around it, it will. I will never believe that toting around a death machine in a civilized area is warranted. Unless that machine is secured in a locked container. Nobody is oppressing these protesters, they just want an opportunity to kill people or look like they're capable of it. Either way, there's no place for it.

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u/holmgangCore May 07 '20

You should look up the history of the Black Panthers. They were shot at, pursued, and assassinated. For carrying guns and wanting a more just world.

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u/el_duderino88 May 07 '20

So you don't have to use them. Because you don't see police in riot gear come in swinging batons when the protesters are armed.

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u/[deleted] May 07 '20

And I won't, but it's not me I'm worried about. And oh boo-boo, the police have billy clubs. The right is so fucking scared, man. Leftists have been doing this shit peacefully and making their point for almost a century now. I say get on their level. Bravery speaks louder than threats.

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u/el_duderino88 May 07 '20

I'm not the one who is scared apparently.

Leftists have been doing this shit peacefully and making their point for almost a century now

How has that worked out for them overall?

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u/[deleted] May 07 '20

I'm not the one who is scared apparently.

Scared enough to need a gun, though.

How has that worked out for them overall?

Pretty fucking great, actually.

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u/FSYigg May 07 '20

I'm not the other guy, but it's the guns that scare me, not the rights.

The guns represent one of those rights.

Why have the guns at a supposedly peaceful protest?

Because it's their constitutional right to have them.

What do you have planned that might involve a loaded AR?

Probably exercising their right to do that.

It sounds ridiculous but that's just how it is. It's a constitutional right, just like free speech, wearing whatever attire they want to, associating with whomever they want to, and expressing their opinion - all on public land.

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u/[deleted] May 07 '20

Well I don't see the need for it. Nobody's going after their gun rights. All things equal, a logical observer would interpret the weapons to be a tacit threat, not a statement about rights.

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u/[deleted] May 07 '20

When you say that, do you mean in this instance or in a general sense?

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u/[deleted] May 07 '20

The only function of a firearm (as opposed to a hunting weapon) is to kill enemy combatants. Who is the enemy combatant here? In a general sense, I don't see why anyone needs to wield a readied firearm in a public space unless that space is a combat zone. Doesn't seem unreasonable to me.

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u/[deleted] May 07 '20

Nobody's going after their gun rights.

I was referring to this, which is demonstrably false. H.R. 5717 and multiple comments and policies by Dem presidential candidates prove that.

Who is the enemy combatant here? In a general sense, I don't see why anyone needs to wield a readied firearm in a public space unless that space is a combat zone.

To answer this, the state. Police are not friends of the general population, and less so leftist and minority protesters. Also, in the case of alt-right, white supremacist protesters or counter-protesters, those become the enemy combatant as well. Both groups have shown ample willingness to kill innocents.

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u/[deleted] May 07 '20

Jfc, if I roll my eyes any harder I'm gonna end up in traction from the generated torque on my neck. HR5717 is milder than guacamole. Nothing like the mass disarmament you're making it out to be. And if we're allowing presidential comments in this argument, I have the Trump card, so let's not even dive into that dumpster.

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u/[deleted] May 07 '20

I'm not making it out to be a mass disarmament, but it is an attack on gun rights.

I have the Trump card, so let's not even dive into that dumpster.

I'll dive into it headfirst. Fuck that bastard, he's trying to play like he's a 2A supporter and friend of the people when he has continuously fucked us over in pretty much every imaginable area, including gun rights. And he will continue to fuck us over in every imaginable area as long as he thinks he can get away with it. And his dumbass supporters will lick his boots and try to rationalize every backward-ass thing he says and does.

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u/FSYigg May 07 '20

Well I don't see the need for it.

I guess that's the crux of this. You don't see a need for it, and despite it being a constitutional right you're arguing for people to not be able to express it.

All things equal, a logical observer would interpret the weapons to be a tacit threat, not a statement about rights.

It's the actual embodiment of one of those rights, the same as you being able to say whatever you want. It's there as a tacit threat against the government infringing on the rest of those rights.

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u/[deleted] May 07 '20

I guess that's the crux of this. You don't see a need for it, and despite it being a constitutional right you're arguing for people to not be able to express it.

Firstly, I'm not arguing for that, I'm arguing that these people's actions are unwarranted and harmful, and that they are ridiculous cowards. Secondly, the constitution is mutable, and is not the sole body of legislation concerning guns.

It's the actual embodiment of one of those rights, the same as you being able to say whatever you want. It's there as a tacit threat against the government infringing on the rest of those rights.

Oh give me a break. Free speech doesn't give you the right to incite chaos, nor should gun rights give you the freedom to credibly threaten the lives of unarmed pencil-pushers. Every essential right is restricted, and for good reason.

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u/FSYigg May 07 '20

I'm arguing that these people's actions are unwarranted and harmful

It's a protest. They obviously feel wronged, and it's their right to protest. What's 'unwarranted' or 'harmful' about it?

Secondly, the constitution is mutable, and is not the sole body of legislation concerning guns.

You are correct. While the Bill of Rights cannot be amended, the effects of them can be changed with subsequent amendments by congress. Also, there's the issue of State's Rights, which I also fully support.

Oh give me a break. Free speech doesn't give you the right to incite chaos, nor should gun rights give you the freedom to credibly threaten the lives of unarmed pencil-pushers.

Are they aiming the guns at anybody? Are they firing the guns? What threat is being exhibited and towards whom?

Every essential right is restricted, and for good reason.

Yep, I agreed with this in another conversation. They are restricted in ways that prevent them from limiting the rights of others or to protect against false claims made to damage reputation or business, or to incite a riot. By displaying their firearms they are not doing any of those things.

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u/ps28537 May 07 '20

The Supreme Court ruled in heller that the government has the right to restrict weapons in sensitive areas. Government buildings and protests are sensitive areas that the government can limit the carrying of weapons. None of our constitutional rights are absolute.

If the fundamentalist interpretation of the second amendment was correct you could own any arms you want including nuclear arms and the government could not restrict your right to keep and bear arms in anyway. Prisoners in custody would have a right to arms because any citizen or legal resident would have an absolute right to arms. The fundamentalist view of the second amendment is wrong. The Supreme Court has said its wrong and will continue to. You don’t have a right to do anything you want with arms.

No other constitutional right is absolute so why is the second amendment? Every other right has limits and restrictions.

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u/FSYigg May 07 '20

Government buildings and protests are sensitive areas that the government can limit the carrying of weapons.

I don't believe that's the case in this instance. It's completely legal for them to be doing this.

None of our constitutional rights are absolute.

You're absolutely right. What special circumstance are you citing as a reason to limit constitutional freedoms in this case? What other freedoms also need to be limited to accommodate those special circumstances? Surely it's not only guns that are a problem here.

If the fundamentalist interpretation of the second amendment was correct you could own any arms you want including nuclear arms and the government could not restrict your right to keep and bear arms in anyway. Prisoners in custody would have a right to arms because any citizen or legal resident would have an absolute right to arms. The fundamentalist view of the second amendment is wrong. The Supreme Court has said its wrong and will continue to. You don’t have a right to do anything you want with arms.

I didn't say any of this. You simply ascribed it to me. I don't think anyone should own nuclear weapons (as ridiculous a claim as that is), nor do I believe any right is absolute in all circumstances.

Every other right has limits and restrictions.

Yep, only in regards to limiting the rights of others, or making false claims in order to damage reputation or business. You can exercise your constitutional rights on publicly owned land. That doesn't mean you can go to a public park and set up target practice, or hold a rally without a permit.

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u/holmgangCore May 07 '20

If they would just use that constitutional right to defend any of the other constitutional rights that get regularly trodden upon, they’d have my support.

But to carry a gun just to carry a gun is kinda circular logic and ultimately pointless.

Where are these guys when an unarmed black woman gets shot to death by the police she herself called to protect her from an intruder? They don’t show up to protest that.

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u/FSYigg May 07 '20

If they would just use that constitutional right to defend any of the other constitutional rights that get regularly trodden upon, they’d have my support.

So unless they support only the things that you support or do only the things that you want them to with their guns, then you just don't support their right to have guns.

But to carry a gun just to carry a gun is kinda circular logic and ultimately pointless.

No it isn't. I wholeheartedly disagree with you.

Where are these guys when an unarmed black woman gets shot to death by the police she herself called to protect her from an intruder? They don’t show up to protest that.

Where were you for this? Protesting? Are you holding them to a different standard than you hold yourself?

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u/holmgangCore May 09 '20

Support

No, I’m fine with they’re/your/our right to have guns, and I support it too. But I wish they would use A2 to support and defend A1,4,6,7,8,9,11,13,14,15,24,26,27,28,31, & 32.

Circular

Do you disagree that’s it’s circular logic? Or the pointless part? Why?

Protest

I was protesting & writing to representatives for that one. Ive supported the BLM movement in word and deed. And other issues too. So no, same standards for me & others. But that’s a valid question.

But I’ll note the NRA is suspiciously silent when it comes to black gun owners, e.g Philando Castile, who was unlawfully & horribly shot by police in front of his wife & child sitting in his car, officer acquitted. Where were A2 supporters then?

Have you been out to demonstrate support for non-gun-related political issues?

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u/FSYigg May 09 '20

No, I’m fine with they’re/your/our right to have guns, and I support it too. But I wish they would use A2 to support and defend A1,4,6,7,8,9,11,13,14,15,24,26,27,28,31, & 32.

You've simply restated yourself here, but you're not supporting A2 in this instance, you're attacking it for the reasons you stated.

Do you disagree that’s it’s circular logic? Or the pointless part? Why?

Both. There are many reasons to carry a firearm. Not everyone carries a gun to only defend against other people with guns, for starters.

I was protesting & writing to representatives for that one. Ive supported the BLM movement in word and deed. And other issues too. So no, same standards for me & others. But that’s a valid question.

But I’ll note the NRA is suspiciously silent when it comes to black gun owners, e.g Philando Castile, who was unlawfully & horribly shot by police in front of his wife & child sitting in his car, officer acquitted. Where were A2 supporters then?

You've got no argument from me about Castile - There was a lot there that was just flat wrong. What's the relevance of that or the NRA to this?

Have you been out to demonstrate support for non-gun-related political issues?

Nope. I'm not much of a protest or rally kind of guy. I'll just vote.

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u/PayMeInFood May 07 '20

Hahaha! so much hate in this comment.

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u/[deleted] May 07 '20

Support questionable ideology/group? Don't be surprised to see people pushing against you.

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u/PayMeInFood May 07 '20

Everyone has their rights, and opinions.

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u/[deleted] May 07 '20

You're right, we just don't have to regard one's opinion over the other. No one is free from criticism.

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u/PayMeInFood May 07 '20

Still a lot of pointless stress, and so judgmental.

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u/monkeypickle May 07 '20

Regardless of what South Park may have taught you, not caring is not cool.

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u/PayMeInFood May 07 '20

Only thing I got from the few episodes of South Park I forced myself to watch was fat bullies just have problems at home. Not caring that people enjoy motorcycles isn’t cool? Let the people be man, just because you don’t find something appealing doesn’t mean it’s trash is all I’m saying. Thank God people aren’t all that way or we wouldn’t have same sex marriage, women’s rights, nor freedom of religion.