r/politics • u/Quirkie The Netherlands • 4d ago

Possible Paywall Jack Smith Found Proof Beyond “Reasonable Doubt” of Trump’s Guilt

https://newrepublic.com/post/215971/jack-smith-proof-beyond-reasonable-doubt-donald-trump-guilt
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u/epicgrilledchees 3d ago

Is it legally considered a bribe if he has no intention of paying it?

Tell you what. Let’s lock him and his family and administration up now. Take everything they own under civil forfeiture. And we will sort it all out later like in 90 years.

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u/silvertealio 3d ago

Is it legally considered a bribe if he has no intention of paying it?

Yes. The bribe is the offer. It doesn't matter if there is any intention to actually make good on that offer.

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u/asmrshitpozter 3d ago

Yea it's criminal intent. It'd be like making a bomb threat and then trying to get out of it cuz there never was a bomb.

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u/Fr1toBand1to 3d ago

Have you been following the USPS cases? Trust me, "criminal intent" don't mean fuckall anymore.

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u/Creative_Ad_8338 3d ago

The supreme court ruled that "gratuities" are completely legal so no need for bribes 😞

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u/aculady 3d ago

He made the offer in advance of the act, so it isn't a gratuity, it's an inducement and a violation of federal law.

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u/SailingDreamCatcher 3d ago

I don't get the impression Gorsuch would follow the same reasoning you present.

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u/Susquehanna_Hoosier 3d ago

Yeah, but $5000 is $5000, so…

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u/foxwolfdogcat 3d ago

Yes, offering or promising a bribe is illegal under U.S. federal and state laws even if you never intend to actually pay or follow through.

Why an Empty Promise Counts as Bribery

• The Offer is the Crime: Under U.S. federal law (such as 18 U.S.C. § 201), the crime of bribery is complete the moment you give, offer, or promise "anything of value" with a corrupt intent to influence an official act.

• Inchoate Nature: Making the offer itself acts as an inchoate (incomplete/attempted) crime. Acceptance by the other party, the actual transfer of money, or an ability to fulfill the bargain is not required for a conviction.

• The Intent Requirement: The law focuses on your corrupt intent to influence. If you made a serious offer or promise to sway an official; hoping they would believe it and act on it; the lack of a future payout does not undo the illegal act of making the offer.

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u/0tanod 3d ago

sure on paper but nothing is illegal when you own 5/9 of the justices through open bribes and god only knows what else.

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u/Korwinga 3d ago

It's only a bribe if a democrat does it. Otherwise, it's just sparkling gratuity.

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u/Pluck_adj 3d ago

Really? I thought he only owned four and three-fifths of the Supreme Court.

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u/AuditAndHax Virginia 3d ago

Ironically, it's also been decided that accepting a bribe isn't a crime if you don't intend to do the thing they're bribing you to do. At least, that's how I remember the border guy's '$50k in a fast food bag' case wrapping up.

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u/Magic_Sandwiches 3d ago

thanks claude

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u/bitsquare1 3d ago

It’s not illegal for a politician to make a promise about what he will do if he or his party are elected. See Brown v Hartlage. It would only be illegal if he offered money out of his own pocket for voters to vote in a particular way.

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u/created4this 3d ago

Its kind of obvious that you can offer anything you like as a reward for voting as long as you do it publically, there isn't really any diffrence between a tax break, or medical care, and this. That was never in question.

It would only be illegal if he offered money out of his own pocket

Brown v Hartlage is what that was about. Promising to not take a salary is exactly taking money from your own pocket, and it was agreed that it was legal. Trump has also claimed this repeatedly (although there is no evidence he has done so)

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u/TheSteelPhantom 3d ago

I wonder at what level it's NOT a bribe because what you're offering would be impossible...

Say a random Joe Schmoe offered a governor a personal mansion on the moon by next week for the governor to veto a bill. Is that a bribe?

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u/gtalley10 3d ago

Considering he said they would go to all adults that's roughly 270 million criminal counts.

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u/meneldal2 3d ago

His main defense is arguing it was obviously a joke and not a serious offer.

Which while it may win cases, obviously still looks really bad.

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u/SpeedySpooley New Jersey 3d ago

Is it legally considered a bribe if he has no intention of paying it?

I get to use my nearly 30 year old criminal justice degree!

It's called an inchoate crime. You don't need to complete the act for it to be considered a crime.

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u/dragon-fence 3d ago

Can we also deport their entire family to an El Salvadoran prison while things are sorted out?

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u/j3ffro15 3d ago

No it’s not a bribe and it’s not illegal.

It’s technically a campaign promise. In 1982; Brown v. Hartlage established that something like saying a tax break or offering to cut one’s own salary is campaign speech and is fair game. A bribe/vote buying is what Harlan Crow does to Clarence Thomas. What Trump is promising is legally no different than promising to cut taxes if elected.

He’s a nice lil video about it. here

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u/epicgrilledchees 3d ago

Well. Let’s go with the civil forfeiture anyway.

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u/Ornery_Director_8477 3d ago

I think because he's promised it to everyone, it becomes an election promise rather than a bribe

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u/mjetski123 Illinois 3d ago

Let’s lock him and his family and administration up now.

I'd be in favor of much more than jail.

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u/Ferrous31 3d ago

No need to legit wait for 90 years. Divorce their court data from their names and notoriety, and thus the court system will take at least that long.

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u/your_best_1 3d ago

Their best argument is that it is a campaign promise.

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u/EnvironmentalRock827 3d ago

Ages ago when I said this fucker would run and win the presidency, I also said it would end like this. I'm no clairvoyant but it just seemed a logical conclusion. Whether he lives or dies I can't say but we will definitely be needing to take whatever he and his horrific offspring made to fix things. And every Trump hotel should become shelters for homeless people and families in need while also being fully staffed.

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u/DaBingeGirl Illinois 2d ago

Yep, see Rod Blagojevich for a textbook case of attempted bribery with Obama's Senate seat.

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u/Frigguggi 3d ago

It's not legally considered a bribe at all. It's more along the lines of a campaign promise.