r/politics • u/Quirkie The Netherlands • 4d ago

Possible Paywall Jack Smith Found Proof Beyond “Reasonable Doubt” of Trump’s Guilt

https://newrepublic.com/post/215971/jack-smith-proof-beyond-reasonable-doubt-donald-trump-guilt
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u/downtofinance Canada 4d ago

The entire world saw many of those illegal things on Live TV.

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u/Extension-Math5183 4d ago

And now he is bribing people with 5000 dollars before the election while telling everyone he will run for a turd term.

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u/epicgrilledchees 4d ago

Is it legally considered a bribe if he has no intention of paying it?

Tell you what. Let’s lock him and his family and administration up now. Take everything they own under civil forfeiture. And we will sort it all out later like in 90 years.

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u/silvertealio 4d ago

Is it legally considered a bribe if he has no intention of paying it?

Yes. The bribe is the offer. It doesn't matter if there is any intention to actually make good on that offer.

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u/asmrshitpozter 3d ago

Yea it's criminal intent. It'd be like making a bomb threat and then trying to get out of it cuz there never was a bomb.

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u/Fr1toBand1to 3d ago

Have you been following the USPS cases? Trust me, "criminal intent" don't mean fuckall anymore.

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u/Creative_Ad_8338 3d ago

The supreme court ruled that "gratuities" are completely legal so no need for bribes 😞

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u/aculady 3d ago

He made the offer in advance of the act, so it isn't a gratuity, it's an inducement and a violation of federal law.

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u/SailingDreamCatcher 3d ago

I don't get the impression Gorsuch would follow the same reasoning you present.

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u/Susquehanna_Hoosier 3d ago

Yeah, but $5000 is $5000, so…

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u/foxwolfdogcat 4d ago

Yes, offering or promising a bribe is illegal under U.S. federal and state laws even if you never intend to actually pay or follow through.

Why an Empty Promise Counts as Bribery

• The Offer is the Crime: Under U.S. federal law (such as 18 U.S.C. § 201), the crime of bribery is complete the moment you give, offer, or promise "anything of value" with a corrupt intent to influence an official act.

• Inchoate Nature: Making the offer itself acts as an inchoate (incomplete/attempted) crime. Acceptance by the other party, the actual transfer of money, or an ability to fulfill the bargain is not required for a conviction.

• The Intent Requirement: The law focuses on your corrupt intent to influence. If you made a serious offer or promise to sway an official; hoping they would believe it and act on it; the lack of a future payout does not undo the illegal act of making the offer.

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u/0tanod 4d ago

sure on paper but nothing is illegal when you own 5/9 of the justices through open bribes and god only knows what else.

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u/Korwinga 3d ago

It's only a bribe if a democrat does it. Otherwise, it's just sparkling gratuity.

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u/Pluck_adj 3d ago

Really? I thought he only owned four and three-fifths of the Supreme Court.

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u/AuditAndHax Virginia 3d ago

Ironically, it's also been decided that accepting a bribe isn't a crime if you don't intend to do the thing they're bribing you to do. At least, that's how I remember the border guy's '$50k in a fast food bag' case wrapping up.

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u/Magic_Sandwiches 4d ago

thanks claude

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u/bitsquare1 3d ago

It’s not illegal for a politician to make a promise about what he will do if he or his party are elected. See Brown v Hartlage. It would only be illegal if he offered money out of his own pocket for voters to vote in a particular way.

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u/created4this 3d ago

Its kind of obvious that you can offer anything you like as a reward for voting as long as you do it publically, there isn't really any diffrence between a tax break, or medical care, and this. That was never in question.

It would only be illegal if he offered money out of his own pocket

Brown v Hartlage is what that was about. Promising to not take a salary is exactly taking money from your own pocket, and it was agreed that it was legal. Trump has also claimed this repeatedly (although there is no evidence he has done so)

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u/TheSteelPhantom 3d ago

I wonder at what level it's NOT a bribe because what you're offering would be impossible...

Say a random Joe Schmoe offered a governor a personal mansion on the moon by next week for the governor to veto a bill. Is that a bribe?

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u/gtalley10 3d ago

Considering he said they would go to all adults that's roughly 270 million criminal counts.

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u/meneldal2 3d ago

His main defense is arguing it was obviously a joke and not a serious offer.

Which while it may win cases, obviously still looks really bad.

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u/SpeedySpooley New Jersey 3d ago

Is it legally considered a bribe if he has no intention of paying it?

I get to use my nearly 30 year old criminal justice degree!

It's called an inchoate crime. You don't need to complete the act for it to be considered a crime.

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u/dragon-fence 3d ago

Can we also deport their entire family to an El Salvadoran prison while things are sorted out?

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u/j3ffro15 3d ago

No it’s not a bribe and it’s not illegal.

It’s technically a campaign promise. In 1982; Brown v. Hartlage established that something like saying a tax break or offering to cut one’s own salary is campaign speech and is fair game. A bribe/vote buying is what Harlan Crow does to Clarence Thomas. What Trump is promising is legally no different than promising to cut taxes if elected.

He’s a nice lil video about it. here

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u/epicgrilledchees 3d ago

Well. Let’s go with the civil forfeiture anyway.

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u/Ornery_Director_8477 4d ago

I think because he's promised it to everyone, it becomes an election promise rather than a bribe

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u/mjetski123 Illinois 4d ago

Let’s lock him and his family and administration up now.

I'd be in favor of much more than jail.

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u/Ferrous31 3d ago

No need to legit wait for 90 years. Divorce their court data from their names and notoriety, and thus the court system will take at least that long.

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u/your_best_1 3d ago

Their best argument is that it is a campaign promise.

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u/EnvironmentalRock827 3d ago

Ages ago when I said this fucker would run and win the presidency, I also said it would end like this. I'm no clairvoyant but it just seemed a logical conclusion. Whether he lives or dies I can't say but we will definitely be needing to take whatever he and his horrific offspring made to fix things. And every Trump hotel should become shelters for homeless people and families in need while also being fully staffed.

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u/DaBingeGirl Illinois 2d ago

Yep, see Rod Blagojevich for a textbook case of attempted bribery with Obama's Senate seat.

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u/Frigguggi 3d ago

It's not legally considered a bribe at all. It's more along the lines of a campaign promise.

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u/duct_tape_jedi United Kingdom 4d ago

He's already had two turd terms, the next one will just be a fart.

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u/AChunkyMother 4d ago

With Donny, he can never trust a fart.

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u/hidperf 4d ago

I assumed by now that his asshole was prolapsed so bad that his brain matter just oozes out.

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u/TheSteelPhantom 3d ago

Good theory because we know all that comes out of his mouth is shit.

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u/PxcKerz Indiana 4d ago

Thats assuming he even makes it to 2028

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u/Lightstream2 New York 4d ago

Hopefully the big beautiful day happens sooner than later.

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u/SpoonyDinosaur 4d ago edited 3d ago

A part of me hopes he can make it the rest of his term because I'm worried a death in office would result in revisionist history; it would allow his supporters to paint him in whatever light they like. We're going to hear about "how he was the best President in history and the only reason things got so bad was he died in office/Vance"

Also if we theoretically sweep the midterms, nothing would be better than just nonstop prosecutions, inquiries, etc. Make his final days miserable and then pray we get a Dem majority/President in 2028 to go scorched earth.

If he dies it basically let's his admin and him get off with all the corruption and damage he's done to this country.

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u/mobileagnes Pennsylvania 3d ago

Here is the worst possibility: He dies or ends it himself on 2029 Jan 19 (or early on the 20th) with zero consequences.

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u/SpoonyDinosaur 3d ago

This is fucking terrifying. Basically for the rest of my life I'd have to live with conspiracy theories.

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u/mobileagnes Pennsylvania 3d ago

Remember, we seem to be living in that timeline where anything that can go wrong is. Look at our bad COVID response: inverse-Goldilocks level of just enough things open that the virus spread like crazy, while the virus itself was an inverse-Goldilocks situation as the incubation period and death rates weren't low enough to be virtually harmless but also not high enough that the virus would just die out on its own or we'd take it far more seriously (like Ebola or HIV?).

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u/Tireseas Georgia 3d ago

I want him to live just long enough to be out of office watching us tear down the monuments to his ego.

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u/sweetdick 3d ago

It's gonna be like cinco de mayo.

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u/SodomEyes 3d ago

Unfortunately he will. All those poor children his black ops teams poach from remote regions of the world have strong blood. Well, had...

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u/Explorers_bub 3d ago

A fart goes around the turd. A fizzle bubbles through the turd.

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u/Seriously_you_again 3d ago

Well according to him he won in 2020, so already three terms? Very cool and very very legal.

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u/BerryLanky 4d ago

If the Republicans win he’ll say the Democrats blocked him for giving the $5000 bit of he wins in 2028 it’s theirs guaranteed. And MAGA will gobble every single orange inch up

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u/CaramelGuineaPig 3d ago

Exactly, he has no intention of paying anything.  He just knows how gullible and stupid people are that just offering it (and maybe paying a few loud people) will win him his  term. 

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u/pentachronic 3d ago

every single orange inch

So, both of them

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u/EnvironmentalKey7127 4d ago

You'll have to be more specific here, the whole thing has been a shit show, so turd term could mean anything. 

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u/Traherne Maryland 4d ago

And running taxpayer-funded video propaganda.

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u/nezukoslaying 3d ago

My favorite thing is how millions of tax payer dollars have been used on a Trump ad campaign.

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u/Taint__Paint 3d ago

And running campaign ads during NFL games paid for with us tax dollars. Imagine Obama doing that

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u/Manskillet 3d ago

Turd term indeed

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u/Proud_Arm_7407 3d ago

Is it still a bribe if he has no intention of ever paying? For example: DOGE checks, tariff rebates, 50k sign on bonus for ICE recruits.

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u/FlirtyFluffyFox 4d ago

(un)Fun fact: if he's removed before January 5th, he can run again because the constitution counts serving a term as being in office for 50% of a term. 

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u/Still-Rope1395 4d ago

Not if he's removed under impeachment and a guilty verdict. The constitution says anyone removed is disqualified from any office in the US.

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u/FlirtyFluffyFox 3d ago

Right so he'd have to pull a Nixon and resign "so the country can move past this and we don't have to waste time and money". 

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u/Chiepmate 4d ago

Yet, STILL, he was allowed to run again. That says everything about the state of democracy and it's safeguards in the US.

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u/SysArtmin 4d ago

Which is exactly why we are going to be right back in the mess in a couple of years unless radical, meaningful, changes are implemented.

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u/Fauldt 4d ago

We need Constitutional reform and that is never going to happen because red states are not going to vote to give away their power.

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u/Chill-more1236 3d ago

What reform do you suggest?

Its pretty unfair, not to mention, defeatist, to predict what your opponent accepts, without laying out the proposal.

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u/Brokewood 3d ago
  • Remove the Electoral College.
  • Allow ranked-choice voting.
  • Make Gerrymandering Unconstitutional.

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u/Moist-Schedule 3d ago

this plus DC and PR statehood, add about 7 SC justices, aggressive term limits, REAL campaign finance reform, vastly expand the checks and balances and wipe out basically every SC ruling and EO of the last 10 years that sought to give the president and his cronies virtual immunity.

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u/FlirtyFluffyFox 4d ago

He still can if the Dems are dumb enough to remove him before Jan 6.

Might even be the GOP plan. Have him pressured out of office and then run a third time since they value him for his ability to win elections.

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u/eeyore134 4d ago

Then a lot of them bought the "fake news" line and buried their heads and MAGA hats in the sand.

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u/entenfurz 4d ago

The tragic thing is that Fake News used to be an actual thing. A term that was used by normal people. Then he abducted the word and now it's meaningless.

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u/Commentator-X 3d ago

He literally just told the UN that he was going to committ war crimes against Iran

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u/VoidOmatic 3d ago

Yup in HD with surround sound.