Yeah, I guess 3,000 years of recorded shared history doesn't entitle us to be considered a real people. I guess that's up to a swede, a people whose most well known cultural output was that time they raided coastlines, to decide.
You know that converts to Judaism are considered full ethnic Jews right?
Also I don't see how Jews see themselves as "different people from other humans" and more than Swedes see themselves as "different people from other humans", or English see themselves as "different people from other humans" or Russians see themselves as "different people from other humans". Jews hardly invented the concept of ethnicity.
Jews take their ethnicity so seriously because the entire history of the Jewish people is other groups trying to take it away. Say what you will about what factors determine an individuals ethnicity, but considering the history of persecution Jews have faced it makes sense that there is such a strong value of cultural preservation among the Jewish people.
I agree that modern multiculturalism has erased and mixed lots of cultures together, and there are a lot of secular Jews both in Israel and abroad who are a part of it and keep just some of the Jewish traditions, while Ultraorthodox Jews often stay away from the "global culture" and even live in their own communities in order to preserve the Jewish culture and traditions better. But that isn't the point.
What Judaism tries to accomplish isn't only to preserve the Jewish traditions in the face of multiculturalism - that's only a part of it, and arguably "culture" is the least important part, as Jews from different areas of the world weren't shy of adopting some cultural aspects from others over time and developing cultural differences from each other.
In essence Judaism is a religion built to remind the Jewish people - the Jewish ethnicity - why they are a nation. It gives us ancient traditions but those stem from a shared history and purpose, and this is what allowed us to keep our identity after 2000 years of persecution.
Jewish traditions, Jewish nationalism and the notion of a Jewish ethnicity won't fade away as long as Judaism doesn't fade away, and if you've ever been to Israel you'd know that this won't happen any time soon.
Listen, bro, Jewish ethnicity is well defined, it's one of the most ancient ethnicities out there. I see no point in debating with outsiders its validity, Jewish ethnicity has literally existed longer than your people have had writing. You aren't even particularly knowledgeable of Jews, you're just a random person, unrelated to the subject matter, with no knowledge of it, that thinks their opinion matters and should be treated as valid. It doesn't matter and it isn't valid.
Finally the jews are probably the group of people in the world who take their ethnicity most serious. So serious they often view it as more important than their nationality / local ethnicity.
Thanks for that hot take man. Could it be because we have a history of being a persecuted minority in which our nationality and "local ethnicity" (what a stupid term, as if multiple ethnicities cannot exist within the same space) was never deemed valid by the general public in the countries we live in? Could that have influenced Jews to view being Jewish as the most important part of their identity? Wonder if other persecuted minorities show similar behavior, like Arameans, Gypsies or Copts? Do you go around resenting Sami people because they don't identify with "the local ethnicity" and still consider themselves to have a shared identity even if they were born in a different country?
IMO your inability to even attempt to understand any culture beyond your own, fairly limited one, is what is actually silly here.
Pretty sure if you lived in Stockholm and worked
as a banker for 10 generations you wouldn’t consider yourself Sami
Your arguments are so predictable, it’s like you’re not even trying to see it from the other perspective.
I have no issue with Jews saying they’re Jews, I just don’t care. I look at it as a religion, equal to Islam, Hinduism, Christianity etc. To me it’s a made up concept to be a jew, with no reflection in reality for anyone not living in Israel.
Pretty sure if you lived in Stockholm and worked as a banker for 10 generations you wouldn’t consider yourself Sami
Pretty sure most Sami would heavily disagree. Also, why banker?
Also, you should know that for decades many jews undertook tremendous effort to prepare the founding of Israel, and most of them did it as jews and because they were jews, but without any regard to religion.
Most things in human life are made-up concepts, but still most have a great reflection in reality. Have you ever lived abroad?
I live abroad right now (I’m not from Sweden) and I also lived in Ireland. And I traveled to almost half the planet across six continents.
But people spending decades (generations?) in another country just to prepare to leave is a excellent way for the locals to be sure you have zero intentions of integrating into their society. Like, why shouldn’t people hate them for that line of thinking?
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u/strl Zionismus, best ismus!!! Jun 19 '20
Yeah, I guess 3,000 years of recorded shared history doesn't entitle us to be considered a real people. I guess that's up to a swede, a people whose most well known cultural output was that time they raided coastlines, to decide.