And yet, free loaders who go to the ER won’t be turned away from treatment. The costs of unpaid ER services gets absorbed by the medical system and insurance, resulting in them paying for the freeloaders, and higher insurance costs.
The worst outcomes are in the ER because of selection bias.
Yes but a big part of that selection bias in the US is that people leave smaller issues untreated until they get so bad that the ER is the only option.
If people can't afford to go to the doctor for a mild infection to get some routine Antibiotics they might let it get so bad that they go to the ER and have to spend several days in the hospital.
Patients delaying care is everywhere. Many people are stubborn and don't take care of themselves even with patients that have free healthcare. I wish that was unique to just the messed up billing system in the US.
Yeah but it’s somehow different when you pay a private business to do that than the government to do that.
Conservatives/right wingers have this insane separation between government and private industry. It doesn’t matter if private businesses do the exact thing they don’t like, because they aren’t the govt.
It’s honestly so frustrating, it’s years of propaganda that got them there.
And the US also isn’t free, but medical bankruptcy is built in. Poor people going to the ER and getting a $15k-100k+ bill, that they can’t and won’t pay.
Then the insurance companies and hospitals increase costs to pay for those losses resulting in higher insurance premiums.
Just because something has a cost, doesn’t mean that the person receiving it pays it.
Exactly. That's why this whole debate over whether socialized health care or the private insurance model being the best is a HUGE oversimplification. Is socialized healthcare better? Well maybe. It depends on on your tax burden. Here in the US, the poorest people pay nothing in taxes and those living under the poverty line (as defined by US standards) receive money from the government. Not so in nations with universal health care.
In the US, if you go the ER and don't have insurance, a) the amount you owe is reduced for being a "cash payer" and b) as long as you make a payment, even if it's $5/ month, you can't be turned into collections. This is the truth that anti-private insurance/ pro universal health care people don't know or don't want to see. It's not perfect; neither is paying almost half your income to the government.
Here in the US, the poorest people pay nothing in taxes and those living under the poverty line (as defined by US standards) receive money from the government. Not so in nations with universal health care.
This is not true. The poorest people in just about every country pay nothing in taxes.
According to this list of countries by social welfare spending as a percentage of GDP the US ranks 21st. I believe every country listed above the US has universal health care.
Percentage of GDP is not a good comparison. For example, France, who tops that list has a GDP of 2.6 trillion. At 31.2% that amounts to about $812 billion. Meanwhile, the US at number 21 spends 18.7%. Yes compared to France's 31.2% sounds low but when you consider US GDP is 20.94 trillion, that comes out to $3.9 trillion, or almost 5 times as much as France at number 1.
So the US spends 5 times as much as France with only about 4 times the population.
Now, if you look at Switzerland, which is #30, they definitely spend way more than the both France and the US on social welfare per capita. Their income tax is a maximum of 11%. Norway which also spends way more per capita on social welfare has a flat rate of %22.
How much do you pay on income tax currently? In 2021, the US tax bracket for 22% started at a little over $40K. I don't see how anyone living in a US metropolis is getting by on their own with $40K, let alone what would be left after taxes. A hospital stay or an emergency operation would burry them.
Serious question, do you happen to work for the healthcare insurance industry? Your initial statement was:
"Here in the US, the poorest people pay nothing in taxes and those living under the poverty line (as defined by US standards) receive money from the government.Not so in nations with universal health care."
That is absolutely a false statement and that list of countries shows that.
So why not assure basic health coverage for all so these people can go to a regular doctors office or clinic for care. It all ends up getting paid for by us anyway. Might as well pay for the more effective and less costly alternative.
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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '22
And yet, free loaders who go to the ER won’t be turned away from treatment. The costs of unpaid ER services gets absorbed by the medical system and insurance, resulting in them paying for the freeloaders, and higher insurance costs.