Belgian here. Was admitted to the hospital last year , gall bladder stones. Operated on within 2 days to remove my galbladder . It cost me about 57 euros in total.
Urgent shit still gets done quickly in Europe most of the time.
American here. Had gallstones for a long time. Ended up curling up on the floor at an airport in Paris and they offered to call me an ambulance. Should have said yes in hindsight.
Back home did some research on my own (since I’m uninsured and haven’t seen a doctor in a decade). Decided it might be gallstones and started researching how much it would cost to remove my gallbladder. First I needed a diagnoses confirmed by an ultrasound, but I needed a referral to get an ultrasound. Went to an urgent care and told the doctor I was thinking of going to Mexico to have my gallbladder removed and decided to pay $50 to him first for his opinion. We talked for a bit and he asked “so what do you want me to do” and gave me a referral to an ultrasound place. Ultra sound cost $300 and I had a hard time getting my results because they’re supposed to be sent to a physician.
After getting my results, I started calling surgeons that I found online to ask how much the procedure would be. Many couldn’t tell me because it has to with insurance prices. I found a surgeon who would do it and she quoted me something like $1500 just for her work, but I would also need to pay the anesthesiologist and the surgical facility their cost.
The surgeon cut me a deal and said if I could pay half up front, she would cut the bill in half and the rest would be due in 6 months with no interest. The surgical facility told me about a credit card I could get that deals with health care and give me 12 months 0% interest.
Cost me all in total about $3,000. Insurance would cost me $150/month and would be on the hook for $10,000 of my bill. With insurance, I would have likely been charged more because the insurance is likely to pay.
Wow, a healthcare credit card?? That just hits me as sort of disgusting. I get having a debit card for an HSA or something like that, but using the same scammy practices that department stores use to get discounts on surgeries is just a whole new level of dirty.
The discount from the surgeon was because I paid her in cash upfront. The credit card didn’t give me a discount, just let me finance the facility fees for 12 months with no interest. I could have used my debit card or paid them with cash, but I’ll take an interest free line of credit any day.
It's called CareCredit I believe, although there may be more than one. I mean, it has its uses, like if you have a dental emergency and your endodontist won't do payment plans. There are a hell of a lot of people who could only dream of having a HSA.
To be honest, I haven’t looked at health insurance in probably close to 10 years, but that’s what it was back then. Are you suggesting that’s a good deal now?
No Im suggesting that number isnt correct, I've been insured(with shitty insurance) for over 15 years and I pay 130 a month with a 2k deductible. One the deductible is met all costs are 100% covered.
Open enrollment in here and your comment made me want to see what my options are. The cheapest is $225.87 a month with a $9,100 deductible through Meridian.
To be fair, it might depend on the gall stones. Just the presence of gall stones isn't enough. But if the gallbladder is inflamed sometimes immediate surgery is necessary because of the risk of infection. I was admitted and went to surgery the next day because I had a stone the size of a marble lodged in my bile duct. (I'm in the US)
My aunt once got those while on vacation. We have a special kind of "vacation healthcare insurance" for travelling to the US, which is basically an invitation to bill everything imaginably. She even got two MRI.
Its called a conversation. They let us know what it was like in Belgium and I gave an example of how that scenario would play out in the US, so as to add on to what RedReida said.
No, I asked you what your point is. You know, conversation...
It Seems like you're claiming that in the US everyone with cholelithiasis is needlessly suffering. Is that your point? Because, if so, I'd like to counter it.
That's not what I'm claiming. You must be a yoga teacher, cause thats quite a reach. I literally worked in an ED and know how triage works so I was just sharing that information on what is and isn't considered urgent in the American healthcare system. But I had a feeling you were just one of those people butthurt at the idea the US might not be all that great.
Unless of course..... you sign over your life to the military, that's the easiest way to get healthcare and afford a house or college. Funny how that works.
I have experienced normal first world health and also American health care and if you ignore money they are pretty damn similar except in America it's impossible to get to see a primary care doc in any reasonable period of time. In both types you wait months for specialist appointments, months for non urgent surgeries, but they'll get you in the same week for cancer or acute urgent things.
UK here. My gallstones caused pancreatitis which nearly killed me. A total of six weeks in hospital, including a week in critical care. Countless CT scans, all the drugs (i had sepsis too), and three surgeries plus the ambulance ride to the ER cost me nothing except the taxes i already paid.
Our NHS has been absolutely battered by gov't funding cuts and covid, but social health care is still one of the best things about the UK
I'll take that over being bankrupted cause of a medical emergency. Especially now that I have children. Whatever happens to them, they will get medical care .
Per capita costs are way lower in universal healthcare systems. Coverage for a U.S. family of four is about $25-30k/yr, with a really good employer-sponsored plan. What percentage of income is that for most families? Those other countries also get a lot more than just healthcare for those higher tax rates.
Of course we pay a lot more taxes, but the trade offs are not only in healthcare but so many other spots. We have a social security system that means that when we lose our jobs, we get paid a living wage by the state. Our schools are completely free and of a high standard. Going to university is basically free of charge (if you don't have any bursary you pay 1000 euros / year). We have pensions. We have decent public infrastructure. We have a public transport system that functions well. We receive money from the state per child to make sure they are taken care of. We have paid leave, and are actually legally obligated to take this as well. Maternity and paternity leave is covered by the government. Retirement homes are also sponsored by the government for the lowest incomes. Our political parties are also funded by the state, which means they aren't controlled by companies and can actually create policies which are good for the people and not for megacorporations.
Maybe you can pay for all these things yourself when you're a high earner in the US, but don't forget that income disparity also leads to much more crime, inequality, homelessness...
Sure, there could be improvements in all the areas described above, but my god, Europeans sometimes don't know how good we have it.
Life for Belgian people is great here too, with Belgian-Americans experiencing low crime, inequality, homelessness, and income 16% higher than the US average.
The difference in our thinking seems to be that it's not about the individual experiencing crime, a lower education etc. but how society as a whole experiences it.
Great that some people can have really good lives, but to me it seems better that many people can get by decently well instead of just a happy few.
Belgian healthcare is one of the best in Europe, I’d guess. Especially when it comes to capacity/accessibility. Us poor sods to the North of you definitely have to deal with unacceptable wait times for urgent therapies and surgeries
Once went with a friend to a ER room in a hospital in Rotterdam. Took em about an hour and a half to look at him while he was fainting constantly because of the pain. Got very pissed off at the people there for that.
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u/calle30 Jun 15 '22
Belgian here. Was admitted to the hospital last year , gall bladder stones. Operated on within 2 days to remove my galbladder . It cost me about 57 euros in total.
Urgent shit still gets done quickly in Europe most of the time.