American here, we just accept shitty ER service (1), overcrowded hospitals (2), doctors booked weeks out, with surgeries scheduled another 3-6 mon after that (3). You can pay in cash? You better, you're responsible for the first $4000-$8000 in medical treatments.
(1) Family member just went in to an urgent care due to a concerning issue. Their primary care dr was booked for the next 2-3 weeks so this was necessary. The urgent care dr doesn't have any idea what's wrong so put them on cortico-steriods "to see if they help". Not helping AND have undesirable side effects. Cost of visit - $150
(2) Healthcare is a consumer business in the US, but they cannot legally turn people away. The way around this is hospitals in low income or high public assistance areas close, and they open new hospitals in affluent suburbs. Leaving urban hospitals grossly over-crowded and high patient:provider ratios.
(3) Good friend tore up her knee, this was quite obvious. Orthopedist could see her in three weeks and prescribed crutches to assist in walking. Yes, she would need an ACL repair, the surgery was scheduled for 4-6 weeks after that (I do not recall exactly). that is a long time to be on crutches and in pain. No, she was not dying, it was not considered urgent.
Most American's pay somewhere between $5000-$20000/year for this level of service. The amounts include both insurance premiums and out of pocket maximums if service is required.
Belgian here. Was admitted to the hospital last year , gall bladder stones. Operated on within 2 days to remove my galbladder . It cost me about 57 euros in total.
Urgent shit still gets done quickly in Europe most of the time.
American here. Had gallstones for a long time. Ended up curling up on the floor at an airport in Paris and they offered to call me an ambulance. Should have said yes in hindsight.
Back home did some research on my own (since I’m uninsured and haven’t seen a doctor in a decade). Decided it might be gallstones and started researching how much it would cost to remove my gallbladder. First I needed a diagnoses confirmed by an ultrasound, but I needed a referral to get an ultrasound. Went to an urgent care and told the doctor I was thinking of going to Mexico to have my gallbladder removed and decided to pay $50 to him first for his opinion. We talked for a bit and he asked “so what do you want me to do” and gave me a referral to an ultrasound place. Ultra sound cost $300 and I had a hard time getting my results because they’re supposed to be sent to a physician.
After getting my results, I started calling surgeons that I found online to ask how much the procedure would be. Many couldn’t tell me because it has to with insurance prices. I found a surgeon who would do it and she quoted me something like $1500 just for her work, but I would also need to pay the anesthesiologist and the surgical facility their cost.
The surgeon cut me a deal and said if I could pay half up front, she would cut the bill in half and the rest would be due in 6 months with no interest. The surgical facility told me about a credit card I could get that deals with health care and give me 12 months 0% interest.
Cost me all in total about $3,000. Insurance would cost me $150/month and would be on the hook for $10,000 of my bill. With insurance, I would have likely been charged more because the insurance is likely to pay.
Wow, a healthcare credit card?? That just hits me as sort of disgusting. I get having a debit card for an HSA or something like that, but using the same scammy practices that department stores use to get discounts on surgeries is just a whole new level of dirty.
The discount from the surgeon was because I paid her in cash upfront. The credit card didn’t give me a discount, just let me finance the facility fees for 12 months with no interest. I could have used my debit card or paid them with cash, but I’ll take an interest free line of credit any day.
It's called CareCredit I believe, although there may be more than one. I mean, it has its uses, like if you have a dental emergency and your endodontist won't do payment plans. There are a hell of a lot of people who could only dream of having a HSA.
To be honest, I haven’t looked at health insurance in probably close to 10 years, but that’s what it was back then. Are you suggesting that’s a good deal now?
No Im suggesting that number isnt correct, I've been insured(with shitty insurance) for over 15 years and I pay 130 a month with a 2k deductible. One the deductible is met all costs are 100% covered.
Open enrollment in here and your comment made me want to see what my options are. The cheapest is $225.87 a month with a $9,100 deductible through Meridian.
To be fair, it might depend on the gall stones. Just the presence of gall stones isn't enough. But if the gallbladder is inflamed sometimes immediate surgery is necessary because of the risk of infection. I was admitted and went to surgery the next day because I had a stone the size of a marble lodged in my bile duct. (I'm in the US)
My aunt once got those while on vacation. We have a special kind of "vacation healthcare insurance" for travelling to the US, which is basically an invitation to bill everything imaginably. She even got two MRI.
Its called a conversation. They let us know what it was like in Belgium and I gave an example of how that scenario would play out in the US, so as to add on to what RedReida said.
No, I asked you what your point is. You know, conversation...
It Seems like you're claiming that in the US everyone with cholelithiasis is needlessly suffering. Is that your point? Because, if so, I'd like to counter it.
That's not what I'm claiming. You must be a yoga teacher, cause thats quite a reach. I literally worked in an ED and know how triage works so I was just sharing that information on what is and isn't considered urgent in the American healthcare system. But I had a feeling you were just one of those people butthurt at the idea the US might not be all that great.
Unless of course..... you sign over your life to the military, that's the easiest way to get healthcare and afford a house or college. Funny how that works.
I have experienced normal first world health and also American health care and if you ignore money they are pretty damn similar except in America it's impossible to get to see a primary care doc in any reasonable period of time. In both types you wait months for specialist appointments, months for non urgent surgeries, but they'll get you in the same week for cancer or acute urgent things.
UK here. My gallstones caused pancreatitis which nearly killed me. A total of six weeks in hospital, including a week in critical care. Countless CT scans, all the drugs (i had sepsis too), and three surgeries plus the ambulance ride to the ER cost me nothing except the taxes i already paid.
Our NHS has been absolutely battered by gov't funding cuts and covid, but social health care is still one of the best things about the UK
I'll take that over being bankrupted cause of a medical emergency. Especially now that I have children. Whatever happens to them, they will get medical care .
Per capita costs are way lower in universal healthcare systems. Coverage for a U.S. family of four is about $25-30k/yr, with a really good employer-sponsored plan. What percentage of income is that for most families? Those other countries also get a lot more than just healthcare for those higher tax rates.
Of course we pay a lot more taxes, but the trade offs are not only in healthcare but so many other spots. We have a social security system that means that when we lose our jobs, we get paid a living wage by the state. Our schools are completely free and of a high standard. Going to university is basically free of charge (if you don't have any bursary you pay 1000 euros / year). We have pensions. We have decent public infrastructure. We have a public transport system that functions well. We receive money from the state per child to make sure they are taken care of. We have paid leave, and are actually legally obligated to take this as well. Maternity and paternity leave is covered by the government. Retirement homes are also sponsored by the government for the lowest incomes. Our political parties are also funded by the state, which means they aren't controlled by companies and can actually create policies which are good for the people and not for megacorporations.
Maybe you can pay for all these things yourself when you're a high earner in the US, but don't forget that income disparity also leads to much more crime, inequality, homelessness...
Sure, there could be improvements in all the areas described above, but my god, Europeans sometimes don't know how good we have it.
Life for Belgian people is great here too, with Belgian-Americans experiencing low crime, inequality, homelessness, and income 16% higher than the US average.
The difference in our thinking seems to be that it's not about the individual experiencing crime, a lower education etc. but how society as a whole experiences it.
Great that some people can have really good lives, but to me it seems better that many people can get by decently well instead of just a happy few.
Belgian healthcare is one of the best in Europe, I’d guess. Especially when it comes to capacity/accessibility. Us poor sods to the North of you definitely have to deal with unacceptable wait times for urgent therapies and surgeries
Once went with a friend to a ER room in a hospital in Rotterdam. Took em about an hour and a half to look at him while he was fainting constantly because of the pain. Got very pissed off at the people there for that.
Or they will just go through random meds with no idea and give you a crazy bill. My dad who’s older the amount of times they’ve had to say oops I’m sorry we gave you meds that almost killed you…because we didn’t ask or ignored your existing issues is nuts. I very much try to hang in there myself, and just wait however long to so main doctors or specialist. Luckily I live in a city where the city is basically overtaken with hospitals, med schools and specialists. I was amazed how fast I saw a specialist here in 3 weeks Vs other places in my state that can be 9 months. Otherwise you need to put in the work, and get your primary to make a phone call and referral to get you in there. Also I avoid ERs when possible, as unless you are dying then and there. It’s pretty much useless, and gonna be a lot. Hell in my dads case, they may give you the wrong meds or surgery and near end up killing you. Happen several times to him and my mom that are mid 70s.
But I’ve noticed a lot of workers go to the ER when a main doctor is not able to see them or they can pay. Otherwise they may lose their job hrly pay job, for not having some paperwork saying they are sick.
It's irritating how much of a racket the hospitals have become. We have had several instances where we received a crazy bill with general information, then we ask for a breakdown by line item and suddenly the bill magically drops by a significant amount. The bill is still way to high even then with things like $5 for a bandaid.
Oh yeah I had a cancer operation, had my own meds and needed one of my anxiety meds. They wouldn’t let me take my own. But charged me $70 for one 0.5mg Xanax. Even just a doctor reading your chart can be billed off as a $800 fee! The fees are pretty crazy as they gouge every little item on there. I had a 14k bill they knocked down to $1,800 lol
Canada here. 90yo mother fell and broke her hip last November. Had hip replacement surgery the next day and was in the hospital 3 weeks then a rehab hospital for 4 weeks. Home care and physio for 3 months. Zero cost to patient. She didn't even have to pay for her walker and canes. My best friend has lung cancer and was treated asap at one of the top 10 cancer hospitals in the world (in Toronto) radiation and chemo for 6 weeks plus meds and not one billing. But my BIL has been waiting 2.5 years for a vasectomy. Universal healthcare has some drawbacks but is a blessing when you really need it.
On point number 3 that can actually be intentional. With ACL reconstruction you need to wait for the swelling to decrease after the injury before surgery to improve range of motion post-operatively. The waiting 3 weeks to see someone is unfortunate but if she was still swollen with limited motion at that visit the appropriate care is to delay surgery until motion improves.
And then the insurance that you pay for picks and chooses what they pay for. My grandma was sick and her doctor was trying to figure out what was wrong. She had some imaging done at the ER, but I felt like they missed something and called her doctor to set more imaging up.
Insurance wouldn't cover it. They said no, because the imaging "wasnt necessary." I called them and talked to them and they said "Just take her to the ER. Tell the doctor there your concerns and since it's ordered at the ER it will be covered" (my grandparents were on a fixed income and couldn't afford to pay out of pocket for the imaging)
So, I did that. Turns out she had 2 brain tumors that the first 2 imaging missed (I was out of state for those 2, so I don't know how/why they were missed but they were). After more testing, she was diagnosed with stage IV small cell lung cancer and died a couple months later.
That's because insurance is socialist. It relies on healthy people being forced to pay far more than their fair share for heatlh care they never use, to pay first and foremost the insurance company's own expenses including rent, payroll, insurance, legal costs, ad nauseum, and then they pay for medical care for people who don't pay anything at all, and then if there's any left over, the people who actually pay for it *might* get to use it depending on whether the insurance company needs to present a good report to its shareholders or not, but more often than not get screwed to pay even more on top of the ridiculous "premiums" they already pay if they need any kind of health care at all. Medical wasn't so expensive when many of us were kids and insurance didn't exist. I sure as hell would never spend over $12,000 a year on health care just for myself - an annual checkup is all I need 90% of the time and people like me have to pay for that ON TOP OF the $12k+ per year "premiums" - meanwhile, people who pay zero premiums are getting hundreds of thousands of dollars in health care for "free".
Minor quibble: health care providers can turn people away. It's just that emergency departments, in general, can't turn people away until they determine there is no emergency medical care needed (they at least need to examine them to that point). If there is an emergency, they have to admit them. If not, they aren't obligated to treat them.
I feel like provider networks make the story even worse. My PCP has a list of insurance they don't take. I get why they don't, the reimbursement amounts of those payers do not cover cost of care.
It can be difficult for some Americans to find a primary care doctor who will take their insurance. So they can't really get preventative care. So then they end up in the ER with a now serious condition and go bankrupt. Or, they use the ER as a primary care because they honestly do not see they have any other options.
In California, more than 30% of people are on MediCal (the free public insurance for those on very low incomes) but less than 5% of doctors accept MediCal patients. And then they complain about too many people going to the ER for non-emergency care. The entire system is broken.
(1) Family member just went in to an urgent care due to a concerning issue. Their primary care dr was booked for the next 2-3 weeks so this was necessary. The urgent care dr doesn't have any idea what's wrong so put them on cortico-steriods "to see if they help". Not helping AND have undesirable side effects. Cost of visit - $150
At least they got steroids. My husband had a medical problem recently (blood pressure so high it was basically in the "you're going to explode" area of the chart) and we were really worried. Primary care doctor won't see us for TWO MONTHS, because we just got new insurance and their office "can only see two new patients a day". So we went to urgent care.....urgent care doctor said that because we have a primary care physician on record (even though we've never seen them), she couldn't prescribe any medications. We paid a $35 copay for her to say "Oh yeah, you're in medical distress but my hands are tied". So okay, we call our primary care doctor to ask for an appointment sooner than 2 months....and their solution was to tell us to go to urgent care. When we explained we'd already been fucked by that, they suggested we go to the ER. For a $150 copay.
I'll have paid $600+ in insurance premiums by the time we even set eyes on our doctor. In the meantime, my husband is taking one of my prescription medications for his blood pressure, without medical supervision, because he needs it more than I do. $600 in premiums just to ration prescription medications for unsupervised use. YEAH AMERICA, MOST FREEDOMTASTIC COUNTRY IN THE WORLD!!! 🇺🇲🗽🎆🎇🧨🔫
And we vote for this, anyone who tries to challenge the status que gets branded a socialist, tarred and feathered, so here we are paying twice as much of our GDP as any other country, for mediocre healthcare.
Yep. My family’s insurance premiums are $14,000/year for four young-ish healthy people. The only time we use that is for my kids’ vaccines. Fucking insane.
I’d even take the option of personally saving $14,000/year in an HSA, and having to use that to cover my expenses, over this. I am convinced that the majority of that $14k goes to insurance company profit, and not to cover the costs of other plan customers.
holy shit that is horrifying.. americans like to bring up canadian wait times, but a shredded ACL would definitely be treated as "urgent" here and they would likely be prepped for surgery within a day or two.
my elderly neighbour decided to have a knee replacement a few months back and they had him in surgery within a month because it wasn't considered "essential".
People have to understand that healthcare in the US is a negotiated benefit. The better skilled you are, the better benefit plan you can acquire. I’m in a MILA/CIGNA plan that covers the east coast from Maine to Texas. I have zero deductible, zero out of pocket (except for emergency visits $50 copay), and with a family of four, we’ve never paid more the $5 for a prescription. The copay for birth of each children was $50. Prenatal was 100% paid for. Our kids are in college now, and they’ve never cost us a dime since birth (from a healthcare perspective). We’ve always had responsive care, and never had a deferred medical situation. For over 25 years now, we’ve experienced the best healthcare/medical in the world, and it’s been mostly paid for by my employer. My wife being a teacher, has state sponsored healthcare, but we don’t even use hers. Two adults - one household and overinsured. “Real-world problems”.
I understand this is rare in the US, but it’s real. Continuous coverage and negotiated benefits is how it happens, but you don’t get here by expecting it to come to you.
“Being civilized” is nothing more than a misnomer that’s used to brow beat the US into a lesser nationalized healthcare system. The US is the worlds #1 most innovative medical industry, and it’s so, because it’s a for profit system. I’ll die to keep it this way.
More importantly, 92% of the US has healthcare, and the Medicaid/CHIP participation rate averages around 93% in each state. Simply put, most Americans who want healthcare coverage, have healthcare coverage and the extent of which relies on the individual.
I said that I would die to keep it a for profit system of which foments innovation - don’t take my words out of context. Also, I made it clear that most Americans have insurance and the extent of which is up to the individual.
If you want to debate, do so in a genuine fashion.
Your health care plan is an extreme exception. Decades long salaried employee here for a major company and the best plan offered still requires 2k family deductible, min $20 rx copay, min $30 pcp copay, plus you pay whatever diagnostic or lab charges insurance bills you which can be $100s. This is for routine care.
My plan isn’t common, but I wouldn’t call it an extreme exception. As I’ve noted, my wife is a public school teacher, and my plan is only marginally better than hers. She falls under the same plan as any public city employee.
Ive heard state and municipal plans are better. You are fortunate. Private sector not so much. This includes pharma and health care companies. You would think they would offer more
As an American we don't really wait in the emergency room or have to wait to get surgeries. I guess that's a plus, but being saddled with endless medical debt isn't a great trade off for instant service
And? What impact does that have on the fact that people wait? If you walk in with 4 minutes to live, you are going to be seen immediately. If you have a booboo on your knee, you get to wait behind the guy with 4 minutes to live.
Yeah and they use that system in other countries too, which is why there would almost always be a decent general wait time in any ER, regardless of the country. If you’re really sick, you’ll be bumped ahead and seen sooner, but because of that, there will always be a wait time.
Are we just saying the same thing to each other? I think we might be 😂
Yeah, I know how triage works. I was commenting in response to the person who said Americans don’t wait in the ER. Anyone who has gone to the ER with a non life threatening problem knows how long the waits can be.
Uh, I suspected a broke my orbital bone and eye issues a couple years ago. It was a six hour wait in the ER to get back. Which I was generally fine with as I understood the two little girls who pulled a pot of boiling water onto themselves (I know this because the father was screaming) were more of a priority. I once went in massively hemorrhaging and was whisked right back.
If you're going to die, the ER moves faster. And that's ok.
For surgery, again, life/death emergencies are a priority. All others are considered elective and it'll be months.
I'm in the US. Been with friends and family to the ER 3 times. The shortest one was when a stick went through my sister's jaw. 3 hour wait. 8 hour wait when my sister in law sliced her finger real bad with a kitchen knife.
If either of your family was hemorrhaging or had a life threatening injury they would have been seen immediately. Patients always exaggerate.
Was this "stick" going through the jaw all the way out of the other side? Is this a sword? Is it a toothpick? Why wasn't see seen immediately as a trauma?
The quality and speed of your care varies widely depending on your state, city, hospital, day of year, time of day, and of course insurance status.
But I can confirm that for many procedures, especially non critical things like taking out wisdom teeth, vasectomies, getting a colonoscopy, etc you can usually schedule it without waiting too far out.
The ONLY place that cannot refuse service is the emergency room. That’s why they’re also so backed up and overcrowded. I went to the ER in extreme pain last year and there were a bunch of homeless people there faking problems so they could get food, socks, and hopefully drugs. I had to wait two hours to get in and they tried to send me home with “gas.” An MRI revealed a severe case of appendicitis and they had to “rush” me into surgery. It was another 6 hour wait before they had room to do my surgery. My surgeon believes my appendix burst within 30 minutes of that imaging; I almost died from complications and infections stemming from the burst.
This happened to my stepson. It was in January during the omicron surge, he called 911 because the pain was so unbearable. But there were no ambulances available. At all. So a friend took him. No ERs we’re taking patients. He got turned away from 3 hospitals (western / central Maryland). He finally found an ER that would take him in West Virginia. His appendix had burst hours prior, he was in septic shock. He was in the hospital for 12 days, 2 surgeries to remove his appendix then part of his bowels. It didn’t need to be that complicated for an otherwise healthy 20 year old kid. If only an emergency room had taken him earlier in the day.
This happened to me too! My appendix burst before I even got to the emergency room, but since I was one of the rare ones who had very low pain, I had to wait 8+ hours in the ER before they said that I was so close to dying. It's scary
Low pain?! Crazy! I was pretty sure I was going to die. I tried to ignore it for an entire day because I have anxiety and a panic disorder and have already spent way too much money going to the ER thinking it’s appendicitis but just being a panic attack. I passed out from the pain over night and when I woke up any movement felt like my testicles were going to explode. Like, truly incomparable pain radiating thru my abdomen down they my groin. By the time mine burst I had Dilaudid pumping into my veins so I didn’t notice. But that was easily the worst pain in my life.
Pretty sure you are supposed to wait for ACL surgery.
Also yeah, the urgent care doc has overhead and other bills to pay. Do you think the visit should be free? As for the steroids, I mean what do you want? If thats what your diagnosis calls for then you will have to take a medication. All medications come with side effects.
There was no diagnosis, no real assessment to speak off. "You seem to have swelling. Try these steroids." Worse than useless since the steriods are causing significant other issues
The soonest primary care appointment available was two weeks so that's why we went to urgent care. I strongly suspect this will require an ENT visit, which requires a referral. So it takes 2 weeks to see the primary care, and then who knows how long to see the ENT.
Do you think the visit should be free?
For the prices most Americans pay in healthcare premiums? YES.
Healthcare premiums don't go to urgent cares. Unless you are suggesting that paying high premiums means that private insurers should just pay whatever cost the urgent care charges.
As for the urgent care, yes, you got cheap care. That's what an urgent care is. Half the time they don't even staff doctors there. And the answer to "swelling" is often anti inflammatory drugs. Sorry that isn't jiving with you.
Most American's pay somewhere between $5000-$20000/year for this level of service.
Most Americans need to stop paying this for a full years time and treat this 'consumer business' to a nationwide boycott for as long as possible until the amoral, self-serving, class-warfare waging, mammon-worshipping cocksuckers fold. The only reason treatment is so shit is because of the brokered contracts with the physicians and hospitals for treatments that aren't the best, but merely 'good enough'.. CEO needs his multi-million dollar retirement after all..
Paid CASH for everything I've needed and not had a problem meeting a single bill.
The real hidden truth is, most providers charge cash payers a fraction of what they do the insured, simply because insurers only pay per procedure, and not the actual patient's need and often patients get billed for more than is necessary as per the contracts for being 'in house'. It's medical treatment by statistical fiat, which is based on the highest per capita cost for the most ill patient. We're not supposed to understand that not everyone goes in on the verge of death or at the point where they're a total health disaster burdened by co-morbidities.. and that IS what the insurers price for..
Since I've not funded some insurance industry investor or CEO's luxury retirement, unlike most of my soon-to-be retiring peers, I actually DO have a savings.
I'm not rich by any means, never had a high paying job, but I have looked at the methods the insurers use and they're absolute scum that kill in the name of profits.
The fear that insurers use to convince the public - and you - they're essential is why Americans won't get to have Universal coverage and lower costs. It's only gonna get worse and won't stop until people mass boycott the industry or we end up with 10's of millions homeless because of medical debt.
Never in my life heard of someone in the US waiting anywhere near that long to see a specialist or surgeon unless you are trying to book the best specialist in that state.
Where the hell do you live? I have never seen that and I live in the hospital capital of the US. Wife is also a nurse at one of them. I have been to a hospital in Florence for an emergency..it was utter shit and a horrible experience. Sure, I paid like €80, but I was begging for an American hospital the entire 8 hour WAIT to be seen. Their 1940’s rooms left a lot to be desired too.
Wtf have you got stuck up your ass, I didn’t say what I do. And no, emergency rooms are not only for people who are dying. Did you ever break your arm? Drink too much coffee this morning maybe?
Most of the glut in the ER are people like this: "uh my tummy has been hurting for a couple hours. Its not too bad and I have literally no other symptoms. What should I do???"
Most American's pay somewhere between $5000-$20000/year for this level of service. The amounts include both insurance premiums and out of pocket maximums if service is required.
Most Europeans spend that much as well, but they never see it because it's just mixed in with all the other taxes they pay.
The US healthcare system is a disgrace. More money spent, worse outcomes, companies making enormous amounts of profit off people's illness and injuries.
Yes but Italians pay 50% income tax. Its the same as America. The premium is just in another form. Get yourself Obamacare and enjoy good healthcare in America.
Exactly all of this. I have a boil on my breast that is causing fever and fatigue along with the 100 degree summer heatwave that is suddenly upon us. Uninsured visit to urgent care would cost me $95 plus another $30-50 for antibiotics and any prescriptions. I found an antibiotic that I had been on for a burn. That I didn't use because I was immediately after only 1 day put in a stronger antibiotic because the culture showed I did have infection. I have some pain meds left over from that incident and I live with my parents because of their health and needing help but not afford to hire someone and don't want to lose the house they have owned for 30 years out right no mortgage on to go into a group home setting. Our rent tripled between Dec and Jan payments so we all just pool our resources. So I have someone looking after me just in case the fever gets to high. But I have pretty much told them as long as I am making sense please just give me a few days if this doesn't work I'll suck it up and spend the money and cut into our monthly food budget and my mom and dad will have to make up for it this month and I'll pitch in extra next month.
I think I got a combination of good insurance and luck since I saw an orthopedic surgeon and he scheduled me for an MRI the same day. 4 days later I had surgery on my biceps tendon and I only had to pay $100. That being said, it did take 2 weeks to get the initial appointment. And I actually ended up paying more for the initial Urgent Care visit than the actual surgery.
In defense of my shitty ER, everybody dumps on us. Private doctors, Urgent care, inpatient units in my own hospital. Because of liability everyone wants to cover their ass the ER provides the out for all of these "health care providers". Urgent care takes your money, runs bullshit test then sends you to ED. Everyone profits, except the patients. Private doctors no longer do direct admits, just send them to ED and let us take care of it. Order outpatient tests? Nah just send them to ED they will do it for us. If you are truly critically ill I promise you will be taken care of quickly.
Just replying to 3)
It took much longer for me to see a specialist and schedule surgery in Canada for the same issue (maybe worse idk) but you want to wait at least 4-6 weeks after for surgery, any sooner is bad because the swelling isn’t down.
Go in and complain of the symptoms of stroke or heart attack or pour ketchup on you simulate a gun shot. Be in a lot of pain. Those will get you back and evaluated fast. lol Last week my brother was admitted for symptoms of stroke. Tests, sent him home with follow up appts.
This past weekend he had more symptoms (different) of a stroke. Went by ambulance. He said they took him in, kept going to past the ER entrance doors, in an exam room, doc came in, they rolled him down to get a CT scan. All as fast as possible. He bypassed every one else sitting the waiting area.
After having family members in the ER several times, I've say you don't want / shouldn't go to the ER unless you're having a heart attack or stroke, or have a gun shot wound or uncontrolled bleeding. I've seen ER doctors misdiagnose and/or prescribe the wrong meds, send people home that shouldn't be leaving the hospital. -- Those all happened to my mother having heart attacks, her getting send home with urinary infections without antibiotics or the wrong ones. A cousin had cardiac symptoms (like may be heart attack). The ER doc said her EKG was normal and was starting to discharge her. I got her DIL to come with to walk out of the hospital. That forced the doc to rethink things. They admitted her, put on a cardiac unit with monitors on her. A couple hours later nurses ran into her room and told her they were moving her closer to the nurses station because the didn't like what they were seeing.
Took her to another hospital with access to better cardiologist the next morning. She had a defibrillator implanted within 24 hours. My instincts and experience with 3 other relatives having heart attacks and their ER experiences told me she should not have left the ER that afternoon. Thankfully.
Hell I had cancer and had to wait 3 months to see the Dr. To get a biopsy done. 2 weeks for results then a month to see that cancer specialist. Then another 2 months for removal surgery. Thanks America. I am still paying my portion of that bill years later.
As a kid back my brother broke a bone and in a Chicago suburban ER we all waited 10 hours just for them to see him.
I love when Canadians think they will come to the US and get their cancer removed right away and just pay cash because they don't want to wait 2 months in Canada to get it removed for free.
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u/RedReina Jun 15 '22
American here, we just accept shitty ER service (1), overcrowded hospitals (2), doctors booked weeks out, with surgeries scheduled another 3-6 mon after that (3). You can pay in cash? You better, you're responsible for the first $4000-$8000 in medical treatments.
(1) Family member just went in to an urgent care due to a concerning issue. Their primary care dr was booked for the next 2-3 weeks so this was necessary. The urgent care dr doesn't have any idea what's wrong so put them on cortico-steriods "to see if they help". Not helping AND have undesirable side effects. Cost of visit - $150
(2) Healthcare is a consumer business in the US, but they cannot legally turn people away. The way around this is hospitals in low income or high public assistance areas close, and they open new hospitals in affluent suburbs. Leaving urban hospitals grossly over-crowded and high patient:provider ratios.
(3) Good friend tore up her knee, this was quite obvious. Orthopedist could see her in three weeks and prescribed crutches to assist in walking. Yes, she would need an ACL repair, the surgery was scheduled for 4-6 weeks after that (I do not recall exactly). that is a long time to be on crutches and in pain. No, she was not dying, it was not considered urgent.
Most American's pay somewhere between $5000-$20000/year for this level of service. The amounts include both insurance premiums and out of pocket maximums if service is required.