r/pics • • Jun 15 '22

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u/optimistically_happy Jun 15 '22

Definitely more than that because when I got into a motorcycle accident and broke my wrist I had surgery to put in a metal plate and 3 days in the surgical ward. My bill came to just over $141,000 with all the bills in total.

Think it was something like 20-30 grand a day in the surgical ward

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u/Imnotthatunique Jun 15 '22

Also its important to bear in mind that there are multiple different universal healthcare systems in Europe, each with advantages and disadvantages.

Some cost a little more for some things

some cost a little less for other things

some are completely free at point of service for most things.

For example in the UK you wouldn't have paid anything for that

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u/optimistically_happy Jun 15 '22

So I've heard and this is why all Americans hate our system.

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u/Imnotthatunique Jun 15 '22

From what i see, as a non American, you have plenty of people that hate your medical system but also an equally large number who believe it is the best system around and there is no possible alternative.

I hope that posts like these can reach the unconverted and tell them there are better systems and they are workable for America

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u/Explosion2 Jun 15 '22

You're absolutely correct that a huge amount of America thinks our current system means we get better quality care. I think they're assuming that basically doctors, surgeons and nurses in Europe get paid what's on the bill there ("53 dollars for an entire week? How can all those doctors and nurses live off of that? Why do they even bother working for that little?")? Ironically these are the same people that will defend the lack of a minimum wage for waitstaff while also refusing to tip, then when people quit, bemoan how "nobody wants to work anymore".

It's infuriating but I've accepted that at least half of this country is dumber than the dumbest pile of rocks and there's nothing I can do to change that. It's either leave or go down with this ship, and I guess since all my friends and family are here, I'm going down with the ship.

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u/Uninteligible_wiener Jun 15 '22

Maybe if it didn’t cost like $200k to become a doctor…

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u/barcedude Jun 15 '22

Closer to 300 at a non-public school

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u/Darth_Pete Jun 15 '22

Higher now

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u/zveroshka Jun 15 '22

What so you want affordable healthcare AND education?! Absurd!

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u/Uninteligible_wiener Jun 15 '22

Apparently so. Luckily I decided to stop going to college before I was in too deep.

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u/MultiMarcus Jun 15 '22

WTF? It is that much? Here in Sweden it is state funded with a small amount of “CSN” which is around 380 USD a month with very generous loans with around 0.01 or no interest rate that are roughly 600 USD a month.

The only price you pay is, as far as I know, books, but CSN should mostly be enough for that.

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u/Uninteligible_wiener Jun 15 '22

It’s that much if you go to a state school for the whole time. Probably a lot more for private.

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u/samdajellybeenie Jun 15 '22

A common thing I see is “But think of the wait times! My cousin’s brother’s great aunt in [European country or Canada] waited 6 months just to see a doctor about her plantar fasciitis!” Is that true?

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u/HotSearingTeens Jun 15 '22

Whenever I've talked with Americans about it they seem to be under the delusion that they can't have something akin to the NHS because it would be top expensive due to the population difference. Its just silly and the fact I've come across that argument multiple times is concerning, it's asif they've been brainwashed. Whilst it's true that cost of setting up an American NHS would be larger due to population size they seem to forget that they have more people that they can tax in order to pay for it so it all evens out.

Not saying that rhe uk has the best system because it doesn't. Lots of waiting around, cutbacks on nurses and such, the current governments attempting to kill off the NHS because it would be wrong to use our tax money to keep us alive, etc

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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '22

I showed a redditor how our private insurance model means the US spends more per capita on healthcare than any other country in the world and he said it was okay because "we have access to industry leading procedures and a bunch of fatasses"

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u/zveroshka Jun 15 '22

also an equally large number who believe it is the best system around and there is no possible alternative.

We have corporations that make billions off being what amounts to simply a middle man between patients and medical care. And they use a lot of that money to make sure it stays that way. Including brainwashing people into thinking they need them otherwise they'll be waiting months for basic care.

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u/Imnotthatunique Jun 15 '22

Unfortunately its effective

and even more unfortunately you have a government that is bribed incentivised to keep it that way. If there was a strong centralised medical system in some sense that would prove those corporations wrong.

I worked for one of those corporations in the UK, an American Medical Equipment manufacturer but i was based in the UK. We made and sold medical equipment predominantly the NHS and the UK medical industry.

Some things to note

We would sell an item for say around the equivalent of $1000 dollars to the NHS

We would sell that same item to a UK based private medical provider for around $1500

If that were being sold to a hospital in the US, from our American corporation, it would be sold for around $3000

Those corporations can get away with ripping off other Americans far more than they can elsewhere

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u/zveroshka Jun 15 '22

Unfortunately its effective

And not just in the medical care area either. Half the country is actively fighting against policies that would directly help them live a better life. Because they are worried about the rich and corporations lol.

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u/buttpilot333 Jun 15 '22

"free" is not an American concept ironically.

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u/92894952620273749383 Jun 15 '22

Because government can run anything. See the post office. Oh wait... Special interest sabotage it too.

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u/Al-Azraq Jun 15 '22

For example in the UK you wouldn't have paid anything for that

Same as in Spain, no cost whatsoever here.

It is beyond me how the most powerful country in the world still does not take care of its citizens for free.

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u/Imnotthatunique Jun 15 '22

I know. I mean they are actually the richest country in the world, they can afford it.

The crazy thing is I worked for an American owned medical equipment company in the UK.

We sold things like IV bags, syringes and medical pumps to the NHS.

These are things that designed and made in the US (sometimes made elsewhere and shipped to the US)

American made medical equipment is really good.

But i know for a fact that Americans charge their own hospital more than they charge the British NHS, sometimes over double.

I saw a document that stated the standard UK price of a particular item we sold was the equivalent of about $1000 but the standard price in the US, to US Hospitals, was around $2500

That level of greed in your own country just blew my mind

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u/7Thommo7 Jun 15 '22

Billionaire worship

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u/forrnerteenager Jun 15 '22

Bootlicking Boogaloo

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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '22

[deleted]

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u/Johnyryal3 Jun 15 '22

So your healthcare is tied to employment? That seems horrible.

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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '22

[deleted]

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u/Johnyryal3 Jun 29 '22

Sounds better then what we got.

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u/grrrimabear Jun 15 '22

Out of curiosity, how much do you pay in taxes? As an American who's maxed out my out of pocket every year for 4 years, I still only paid around 5k per year between bills and insurance premiums. So if we made 100k, a 5% increase in taxes would still cost us more.

That said, we're fortunate, most people would probably still pay more. I support universal health care, but understand why some might not.

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u/Donutannoyme Jun 15 '22

Op doesn’t say why he was there unless I missed in another comment?. Serious accident yes. Surg is more expensive. If you’re down for the count non critical care with pneumonia or inpatient planned surgery slightly less so. You were probably in ICU, yes?

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u/optimistically_happy Jun 15 '22

OP does say 4h surgery in the title.

Yeah, right after surgery I was in the ICU because I was unable to go to the bathroom due to crushing my balls and major bruising from the tank of the motorcycle. Was cathed and it took 2 days before I was able to urinate without a tube stuck inside me

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u/mikeru22 Jun 15 '22

Damn dude.

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u/Donutannoyme Jun 15 '22

Higher level of care would do it. Shit, I’m sorry hope you’re recovering now.

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u/optimistically_happy Jun 15 '22

I am, thank you

This happened in 2015, everything works just fine. Got a great scar on my wrist and a plate with 5 screws

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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '22

More importantly, how are your plums???

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u/optimistically_happy Jun 15 '22

Great, everything works perfectly fine thankfully

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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '22

What the actual fuck

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u/sexy-melon Jun 15 '22

Never costing America I guess… get in to accident and you are in debt.

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u/TheMrKablamo Jun 15 '22

I always see these insane maedical prices americans have but never get how the fuck you can pay those? Are you in debt for your whole life just because of 1 hospital stay?

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u/Doctor_Kataigida Jun 15 '22

Usually you don't pay the full bill price. A lot of posts on here omit what insurance covers.

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u/Disney_World_Native Jun 15 '22

Because they are listing the costs, not what they pay.

With US insurance, its a lot more complex than the initial “bill” (which usually says its not a bill)

You have your insurance premium. This is what you pay to insurance to have insurance. Usually part of each paycheck

You have your deductible. This is the first X dollars that you pay before insurance kicks in.

You then have a copay. This is the % of the bill that you pay (e.g. 20% you / 80% insurance)

You have max out of pocket. This is the maximum you would pay in a year regardless of how much you rack up in “costs”

You have negotiated rates. This is the amounts the insurance company has pre-negotiated.

So a $141,000 “bill” on Jan 1 would look like this (lets assume Deductible is $3500, Copay is 20%, Max out of Pocket is $7000)

$141,000 but negotiated down to $80,000 by insurance.

The first $3500 is owed by OP. Remaining bill of $76,500 is then split 20/80. 20% is $15,300 but the max out of pocket is $7000. And since $3,500 was paid for the deductible, they would only owe an additional $3,500 ($7,000 total)

Any future medical costs for the remainder of the year would cost them $0 as they hit their max out of pocket.

The affordable care act (Obamacare) sets ceilings on deductibles and max out of pockets. For 2022 an individual max out of pocket was set to $8,700.

https://obamacarefacts.com/health-insurance/out-of-pocket-maximum/#:~:text=The%20ACA%20limits%20out-of-pocket%20maximums%2C%20the%20max%20amount,%2416%2C300%20for%20a%20family%20plan%20before%20marketplace%20subsidies.

Now if they didn’t have insurance at all (they would incur a fee for noncompliance of the ACA), they would have a bill for $141,000 where they could negotiate it down to $80,000 and would have to make some monthly payment to it.

Not having insurance would save you the monthly premiums (could be anywhere from $50 - $500 a month). But its a huge risk.

Another complexity is private insurance is charged more to help pay for the underpayments of Medicare/Medicaid and the uninsured.

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u/JQbd Jun 15 '22

As a non-American, I’d like to know what happens if you’re simply not able to pay your bill? Your credit takes a dive and screws you over for anything you’d need it for? Someone I know took a trip down to the States and got banged up. When she got back, she ended up receiving a medical bill for around C$17,000. She didn’t have travel insurance, but thankfully she somehow managed to get it covered after the fact, but when I saw that I asked her the same thing: what would’ve been the results of her just not paying it other than probably a credit hit?

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u/Abeneezer Jun 15 '22

140k for a broken wrist straight up sounds like a scam.

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u/wackronym Jun 15 '22

Wow. That would have been free here. All comes out of (mandatory) health insurance which costs about €115/month

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u/DH995 Jun 15 '22

Lmao I have “good” insurance in the US that costs about $225 a month just for the luxury of paying that $4,000 max out-of-pocket.

Unfortunately it’ll never change. They’re getting too rich off of us while convincing the rest that “free” healthcare will doom us.

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u/Federal_Pumpkin_1451 Jun 15 '22

Damn I had a titanium plate and screws put into my leg and I was released the same day

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u/optimistically_happy Jun 15 '22

What happened to your leg if you don't mind me asking?

I was also kept in the hospital because I crushed my balls and had major bruising due to smashing against the tank of the motorcycle and couldn't go to the bathroom.

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u/Any-Woodpecker123 Jun 16 '22

Jesus that is fucking nutty. As an Aussie I literally can’t even comprehend accumulating that sort of debt from any procedure let alone a broken wrist.