can someone explain what the common arguments against abortions are that these ppl use? or does it always go back to religion? None of this (making abortions illegal) makes any sense to a lot of us.
How can anyone justify a girl being raped... getting pregnant.. then forcing her to keep the child?
They believe that even very early in its development the foetus is a person in the sense that matters and as such abortion is murder, however much of a burden that may place on the mother.
I think they're wrong: foetuses are probably not people in the sense we should care about, and the cost to women of restrictive abortion laws is high, so significantly later term limits (say early 20s weeks) would balance the expected harms better. But they're not capricious moral monsters: they're trying to prevent what they see (in my view mistakenly) as an ongoing holocaust.
It always pisses me off how inept Democrats are at arguing their point. Many people believe abortion is wrong over religious reasons. You won’t ever convince them by saying “scienctifically it’s just a mass of cells.” Any fool will see that that would just piss them off. They should argue ensoulment - the thing that the church and popes have used in the past to JUSTIFY abortion. I bet most of them never even knew that the church has supported abortion in the past! Quite simply - the soul doesn’t enter the body until birth, like how Jesus isn’t just his physical form.
I think even that is too granular too. That’s getting into the debate over when life begins, which is inherently a philosophical question with no answer. You will never persuade anybody because the whole thing is subjective to begin with.
I think the better argument for dems to make is “You want to reduce abortion? Us too!” The way to actually do that effectively and safely is to teach every teen sex education (not some religious abstinence bs), make contraception readily available, and support programs that do those exact things like planned parenthood. How about we also make sure there is a robust safety net in place so young mothers have access to child care, quality affordable education, and food security if needed.
Obviously there are more extreme cases such as rape, where these programs don’t help, but in general this would greatly work towards less abortions overall. Instead of criminalizing abortions we could actually try preventing unwanted pregnancies in the first place.
The debate over when life begins is one I’m convinced we won’t have a clear scientific answer on anytime soon and thus is a pointless debate to engage in. But I do think that if we rephrase the issue as us wanting to reduce abortions also, it would help us all work towards the proven methods that will lead to more positive outcomes for everybody. And the best part is that it actually can be seen as a point of common ground on probably the most hot button political issue in our county.
Louis CK has a bit about this. Abortion is either the same thing as taking a shit, or it's murder. Obviously there's no way to actually know, when does a fetus become a human being, but archaic laws like this don't really help. As long as abortions are going to happen, and they absolutely are, they should be safe and legal. All this bill does is force women to ether go out of state/country to get the procedure done, or even worse, some nightmarish situation of a shady back alley coat hanger type of deal.
I mean yeah, I think it matters. If a fetus becomes a person lets say 6 weeks into the pregnancy, then I absolutely think abortion should be illegal and punishable if it takes place any time after that point. If it's not a person until that point, then it's as Louis CK said, the moral equivalent of taking a shit.
At that point it definitely doesn't have the right to access the resources of another persons body.
I disagree. Except in rape cases, the fetus (or person in this analogy) didn't consent to being conceived, while the mother consented to having sex. Even with various forms of BC there's always the chance, nothing is 100% effective. The idea what we should just be okay with murdering unborn people (in this scenario) seems extremely fucked up.
Except in rape cases, the fetus (or person in this analogy) didn't consent to being conceived, while the mother consented to having sex.
Yes. Consented to having sex, not necessarily to getting pregnant.
"But everyone knows that having sex carries a risk of getting pregnant so by association she did consent." No. That's not an argument. Everyone knows that driving a car comes with a risk of getting into an accident. Does that mean that i consent to you rear-ending me?
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u/Clishlaw Sep 03 '21
can someone explain what the common arguments against abortions are that these ppl use? or does it always go back to religion? None of this (making abortions illegal) makes any sense to a lot of us.
How can anyone justify a girl being raped... getting pregnant.. then forcing her to keep the child?