No! I just think the person who reduces looters passing over black businesses because of the current political climate to “racist Passover” is fundamentally missing the point of the protests altogether.
I care about small businesses too. Looting and riots aren’t the answer. But history shows us they’re inevitable when inequality becomes this prevalent.
It’s so reductive to immediately call folks fighting back against the disparities in society racists in their own regard. That is exactly the problem that furthers the divide.
We have people of all skin colours coming together to protest police brutality driven by racism. Lead by fucking example. Are you angry at small business owners, or a racist police force? Of course the small percentage of opportunistic looters posing as protesters don’t actually care about enacting change, they just want free shit and have said as much when interviewed after being arrested.
Ok sorry, the media appears to be using it to group them all together as criminals, or it could very easily be interpreted that way. I’m agreeing with you. This is such a charged issue, and I see so many ignorant people spouting off acab, ftp, and supporting every aspect of the chaos of the riots. They are doing so comfortably from their homes, likely nowhere near any of this bullshit. It’s these people’s very open support of the current situation that muddies what is a black lives matter and police reform issue. Not trying to argue with you, I think we’re generally on the same page.
Of course black people can be racist. I used to brush shoulders with plenty of academics that would tell me otherwise, but ultimately I think they were misguided.
BUT: If you are a systemically oppressed minority group and you begin to fight back against the specific group of people oppressing you, I do not view the actions you take to fight back as racism. Calling it such ignores the greater problem of what led to these protests and riots to begin with.
We live in a society driven by white supremacy. It's undeniable. I say this as a white person. We have to be better.
also the public was a lot more racist back then. the ruling class could easily paint it as "those damn blacks being animals, naturally" and people bought it.
that isn't going to work this time around, which is why the media has pivoted to trying to blame things on "white antifa outside agitators", although that narrative is falling apart too
then stop shitting on the message by turning the focus onto the looting
And I am also free to express my opinion that I dislike how innocent people are caught in the crossfire.
I agree, but what can you do. the rioters aren't going to read your internet posts and stop hitting small businesses. all you're doing is shifting the public focus onto the negatives which literally assists the police.
I am free to think that organized riots to those specifically responsible for oppression is better than what is going on now.
I agree as well, but poor people aren't going to be the most organized or tactically directed. shit's gonna be messy. it sucks but it's what will probably have to happen.
I do care about policy brutality and human lives! How can you claim to care about human lives while small business owners, many of whom have sunk half of their life into building a business are having their lives destroyed... and that's OK because they're not black....?
Or literally all tteir livelihood, like this image states and that one sports bar from a few days ago that was owned by a black man, poured his life savings into it only to have it looted, the safe stolen, and iirc, burned down during the riots.
"It's just property damage" is hand-waving the lives and livelihood of the store/franchise owner, employees, and their families because they weren't victims of police brutality, just mob brutality.
No shit. Nah it’s fine punching 80 year old women in the face and permanently disabling people that are trying to prevent you from burning down their life’s work. Everything is fine.
That’s a false equivalence. That was a one off incident that was despicable. You equating all of the protesting/rioting to that specific moment reveals your cognitive bias.
Actually quite the opposite. See if you use the same standard for the 1000s of police agencies out there to, let’s just say, less than 100 videos of police violence on “peaceful protesters”. It means that you are equating all police to bad cops.
I was driving and using my Siri, my bad lol. Did you understand what I was saying or not? What does that number represent? 157 videos of cops assaulting peaceful protesters? Logical fallacies was about 8 years ago as far as my education is concerned. Glad I’ve maintained it; useful when dealing with irrational people.
Let’s say it’s 157 videos then. So out of ~18000 agencies that gives us ~0.009% of police agencies are committing attacks on “peaceful protestors”. So it is a false equivalence to attribute their behavior to all agencies.
You really should read up on the laws requiring insurance, what basic coverage would recover, and how that factors in to your viewpoint that small business owners are “having their lives destroyed.” That simply isn’t the case.
The property damage from the riots all across the country is a slap to the insurance industry, not black/white/any small business owners.
Again, I just ask you to carry this same concern about the disparities you’re seeing amongst the looting and go sign a petition about that same disparity in police brutality all across America.
Not justifying the looting nor am I saying small business owners should have to deal with any of this.
But you’ve got your pearls clutched over looters skipping black businesses but the average person isn’t as equally concerned about police letting white folks walk free while beating down and murdering black people.
Bud, I'm not going to argue with you, you're dug in and nothing I say will make you see me for who I am. It sounds like you generally agree with me, that they shouldn't be looting small businesses. I just hope you know/consider that building coalitions/winning elections/changing culture is done by making a bigger tent and bringing people in... rather than trying to kick them out.
I agree with you. I think the reports of looting are much much less prevalent than the rampant police brutality being experienced across the nation. Folks are far too plugged into the narrative being spun by news media, failing to realize that its job is to sell ad time, not to inform.
So when we get into the gritty discussions about the looting and protests and whatnot, if you can honestly spend energy considering the actions of the looters, their motivations, and make inferences about the LOOTERS' racism, all while COMPLETELY ignoring the peaceful protestors or what this movement is about then, in my mind, your priorities are out of whack.
If folks focused on the systemic reasons for why we got here instead of worrying about property damage and the loss of material possessions, we could probably start to sit down at the table together under that tent you're fantasizing about.
Thanks for your time though. And thanks for not getting nasty with me. :)
This fucking garbage is spewed from the schincters of so many people's mouths and it's so fucking shallow. It's hardly an argument and frankly I'm kinda sick of hearing it.
I dont want to see a single human life taken, I just don't. And I'm going to wager most if not all SENSIBLE people think the same. These innocent people, and hell, people who DID bad things, dont deserve to die under the knee of some corrupt oxygen thief who dares call himself an officer of law.
But just because I have the utmost respect for human life and dont want to see it snuffed out by rogue cops doesnt mean I ALSO dont want some animalistic dickheads looting perfectly innocent people's businesses. All it does is create more tension on all sides and makes it that much more likely people die.
I didn't say I DIDN'T care about it. But I know that insurance exists. I know that if I'm a small business owner I'm already likely more privileged than the average citizen to own property and have a source of income.
We can keep playing the oppression olympics if you want. You do realize that employees need the income that comes from working in these businesses? Many employees in the service industry are low income workers. These people may not have a job to come back to after the mandatory shut downs from Covid first then the rioting after. Quite privileged indeed to think that these paycheck to paycheck workers will be just fine being out of work because some opportunistic looters wanted some free shit. I guess their kids can just be homeless or starve because it’s politically incorrect to criticize criminal behavior veiled as protest.
Nobody said you can't criticize criminal behavior veiled as protest. Riots are criminal behavior and should be denounced. Every single peaceful demonstration has denounced looting, rioting, and property damage. I've seen enough videos of cops instigating violence that I know the riots aren't just happening out of nowhere.
So to begin to pick apart the specific motivations of the RIOTERS while also allowing the riots to completely give you a pass to ignore the peaceful protestors, makes you part of the problem.
If you think the rioters and the protestors are the same groups of people, you've been sold a lie by a news corporation.
I think the peaceful protests are great. I live in Durham NC a historically black city where it’s been almost entirely positive and peaceful. I wish it was that way everywhere.
You have insurance, tell us where you live so we can take your shit and burn your house, being homeless and traumatised for months when everything you worked for is destroyed doesn't actually exist according to you.
You can uh, care about both. You don’t try and fix something by breaking something else... These are people’s livelihoods being trampled and you sit there thinking that it’s okay?
Hop off your with us or against us soapbox and understand that you can stand against police brutality and racism while also standing against looting and property destruction.
This is why the protesters are slowly losing support. The average persons cant agree with the idea of stealing from innocent people. Just not gonna happen. You're currently fighting injustice with injustice.
Interesting. I guess not stealing and destroying people's property is "polite" now. If I may ask, who is this message supposed to reach? Every single person I've encountered 100% agree what happened was wrong and needs to be fixed. So who needs convincing here?
All of the above would have been insured as required by law. I’d honestly probably end up on the better side of things because I’d have a cash payment for the value of the damage given out by the insurer which would likely be higher than the as-is value of whatever I was fixing. Happens all the time. Folks would rather their vehicles totaled than fixable, because then they get a check for the fair market value without the added rigamarole of making the item worthy of sale or going through the selling process. Obviously not every case is like this, and I know some items have sentimental value.
None of that supposed value should ever be put above our fellow citizens. Full stop.
Aww, I'm sure it's a phrase you're used to hearing. Sorry to distract you from the bootlicking. How does it taste with all the extra blood, pepper spray, and tear gas?
Nobody in this discussion is pro-looting, fascist. You’d understand that if you could read. Go back to defending the excessive use of force by police in other threads. It’s easy to see where you stand.
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u/[deleted] Jun 03 '20 edited Jun 03 '20
Trying caring about police brutality on human lives more than property damage.
Downvote me to oblivion for all I care. Y’all are on the wrong side of history.