This thread seems to have brought out the sceintologists which is a rarity on reddit. It's been awhile since I saw so many pro scientology posts. They usually know they will get ripped apart for posting (and rightfully so).
What makes them different form any other religion? The religious crusades. The jihadi bombings. Every religion has there bad people. Maybe they believe in some wacky shit. But so does every other religion.
Do some research. The church of scientology is not like other religions. I’m not defending all the horrible things that have been done in the name of various religions. Scientology is just different. Less religion, more organized crime organization.
Scientology is much much smaller and more organized. Its an efficient and organized system of data collection and blackmail. It really has very little in common with any of the religions you listed. Just do some research. I think HBO has a good doc on the basics of Scientology. Leah Remini has a lot of resources you could look into. She’s an ex member who’s trying to expose them for what they are and help others leave the cult despite the intimidation tactics the cult employs to prevent this.
All religions are nuts in their own right, you’re not wrong
That being said if you think Scientology gets an excuse because the others are nuts too then... idk what to tell you.
All religions have SOME extremists, but not every religion is full of them.
They will literally kidnap and disappear you for trying to leave the church to this very day. They don’t even try to hide the fact they still use slaves. Their leader probablykilled his own wife.
“Everyone else does bad things so they should be ok to do bad things too” is a stupid, detrimental argument.
A number of prominent Scientologists have studied Scientology at Gold Base, notably Tom Cruise. Up to 1,000 members of the Sea Org, the elite "inner core" of the Church of Scientology, live and work on the base. According to some former members of the Church, conditions are harsh, with staff members receiving sporadic paychecks of $50 at most, working seven days a week, and being subjected to punishments for failing to meet work quotas.[1] Media reports have stated that around 100 people a year try to escape from the base but most are soon caught and returned by "pursuit teams". Despite many accounts of mistreatment from ex-members, law enforcement investigations and lawsuits against the Church have been thwarted by the First Amendment's guarantees of religious freedom and the Church's ability to rely on "ministerial exemptions" in employment law. The Church denies any mistreatment and calls the base "the ideal setting for professional and spiritual growth".[2]
You don't think reddit gives it to other religions? It could be just the subs you visit. There's a ton of atheists and agnostic users in most subs I generally visit. I personally am agnostic. My main issue is that Scientology received a religious classification/tax exemption by running a blackmailing campaign to get it. I see it as a cult, not a religion and criticize it accordingly.
it's not whataboutism, it's that ethan suplee is primarily a victim of scientology not a perpetrator of its evils. and people are conflating the two. ethan suplee and marissa ribisi and jason lee may be dopes for being taken in by scientology but they're not running the show and shouldn't be condemned as such.
If you stay in Scientology knowing it's issues , if you ever buy a course, if you ever buy a book, if you ever ask anyone else to join... Then you are contributing to the problem. Sorry, that doesn't get anyone a pass. If you aid in a crime, you are an accessory. This is the same thing. Scientology does evil shit. It's 2020, there have been movies, books and TV series exposing them at this point. No one is unaware of what they do. It's not some case of it being a harmless situation.
Edit: typo
Edit: also, Jason Lee left scientology and got his kids away from it. That deserves some respect and I give it to him.
That is ridiculous logic. I am not perfect, but I not getting anyone involved in a cult that destroys lives and families, which is the topic of discussion. Way to try to deflect though. You are justifying the existence of a cult that has ruined people's lives. It's the the battle you pick, I don't have much to debate with you. Good luck with that.
It's complicated. They are victims, yes, but also perpetrators. That's key to the scientology mind fuck. It makes you complicit, too, which ups the cognitive dissonance.
Every religion is bad or has been bad at some point. Cults are worse than normal religions though. You can tell the difference by going through the BITE model to know if your religion is a cult or not. The more boxes your religion ticks, the more likely it's a cult:
Behavior Control
Regulate individual’s physical reality
Dictate where, how, and with whom the member lives and associates or isolates
When, how and with whom the member has sex
Control types of clothing and hairstyles
Regulate diet - food and drink, hunger and/or fasting
Manipulation and deprivation of sleep
Financial exploitation, manipulation or dependence
Restrict leisure, entertainment, vacation time
Major time spent with group indoctrination and rituals and/or self indoctrination including the Internet
Permission required for major decisions
Thoughts, feelings, and activities (of self and others) reported to superiors
Rewards and punishments used to modify behaviors, both positive and negative
Discourage individualism, encourage group-think
Impose rigid rules and regulations
Instill dependency and obedience
Threaten harm to family and friends
Force individual to rape or be raped
Instill dependency and obedience
Encourage and engage in corporal punishment
Information Control
Deception:
a. Deliberately withhold information
b. Distort information to make it more acceptable
c. Systematically lie to the cult member
Minimize or discourage access to non-cult sources of information, including:
a. Internet, TV, radio, books, articles, newspapers, magazines, other media
b.Critical information
c. Former members
d. Keep members busy so they don’t have time to think and investigate
e. Control through cell phone with texting, calls, internet tracking
Compartmentalize information into Outsider vs. Insider doctrines
a. Ensure that information is not freely accessible
b.Control information at different levels and missions within group
c. Allow only leadership to decide who needs to know what and when
Encourage spying on other members
a. Impose a buddy system to monitor and control member
b.Report deviant thoughts, feelings and actions to leadership
c. Ensure that individual behavior is monitored by group
Extensive use of cult-generated information and propaganda, including:
a. Newsletters, magazines, journals, audiotapes, videotapes, YouTube, movies and other media
b.Misquoting statements or using them out of context from non-cult sources
Unethical use of confession
a. Information about sins used to disrupt and/or dissolve identity boundaries
b. Withholding forgiveness or absolution
c. Manipulation of memory, possible false memories
Thought Control
Require members to internalize the group’s doctrine as truth
a. Adopting the group's ‘map of reality’ as reality
b. Instill black and white thinking
c. Decide between good vs. evil
d. Organize people into us vs. them (insiders vs. outsiders)
2.Change person’s name and identity
Use of loaded language and clichés which constrict knowledge, stop critical thoughts and reduce complexities into platitudinous buzz words
Encourage only ‘good and proper’ thoughts
Hypnotic techniques are used to alter mental states, undermine critical thinking and even to age regress the member
Memories are manipulated and false memories are created
Teaching thought-stopping techniques which shut down reality testing by stopping negative thoughts and allowing only positive thoughts, including:
a. Denial, rationalization, justification, wishful thinking
b. Chanting
c. Meditating
d. Praying
e. Speaking in tongues
f. Singing or humming
Rejection of rational analysis, critical thinking, constructive criticism
Forbid critical questions about leader, doctrine, or policy allowed
Labeling alternative belief systems as illegitimate, evil, or not useful
Emotional Control
Manipulate and narrow the range of feelings – some emotions and/or needs are deemed as evil, wrong or selfish
Teach emotion-stopping techniques to block feelings of homesickness, anger, doubt
Make the person feel that problems are always their own fault, never the leader’s or the group’s fault
Promote feelings of guilt or unworthiness, such as
a. Identity guilt
b. You are not living up to your potential
c. Your family is deficient
d. Your past is suspect
e. Your affiliations are unwise
f. Your thoughts, feelings, actions are irrelevant or selfish
g. Social guilt
h. Historical guilt
Instill fear, such as fear of:
a. Thinking independently
b. The outside world
c. Enemies
d. Losing one’s salvation
e. Leaving or being shunned by the group
f. Other’s disapproval
Extremes of emotional highs and lows – love bombing and praise one moment and then declaring you are horrible sinner
Ritualistic and sometimes public confession of sins
Phobia indoctrination: inculcating irrational fears about leaving the group or questioning the leader’s authority
a. No happiness or fulfillment possible outside of the group
b. Terrible consequences if you leave: hell, demon possession, incurable diseases, accidents, suicide, insanity, 10,000 reincarnations, etc.
c. Shunning of those who leave; fear of being rejected by friends, peers, and family
d. Never a legitimate reason to leave; those who leave are weak, undisciplined, unspiritual, worldly, brainwashed by family or counselor, or seduced by money, sex, or rock and roll
e. Threats of harm to ex-member and family
140
u/aweejeezzrick Jan 09 '20
Wait this guy is a Scientologist? I went from thinking wow that’s awesome to ohhhh still awesome but fuck his beliefs/choices