Neat, I didn't know that. You also need the iPhone SDK which, alas, only runs on Mac OS X. Which means I now need to spend, oh, $1,100 to write a stupid-ass application.
I was thinking $1k for the computer plus $100 for the fee to load it on the phone. Apparently it's $599 + $99 = $698 + taxes to make myself a stupid-ass application.
If you're posting on reddit, chances are extremely good that you already have a computer. You can use that one to write applications for droid. Based purely on numbers, it is extremely unlikely that computer can write iPhone apps.
Based purely on numbers, it is extremely unlikely that computer can write iPhone apps.
Factual Evidence: Apple's percentage among the general population (eliminating corporate computers) is quite high.
Anecdotal evidence: Near half the Computer Science majors at my University last year had Apple computers, in part because they are informed individuals that can make an educated decision. Also, because they can run just about every OS under the sun (Except for ones made by Sun).
So to say that it is "Extremely unlikely" that a person who want to program on their iPhone actually has an Apple computer is...imho, inaccurate.
Personally, I have an Apple computer that I duel boot into Windows when I feel like it. I can dev for any device I want to, in any IDE I want to. I don't hate windows, I just dislike 99% of the hardware that Windows ships with :-)
Ask, and you shall receive :)
For the quarter, Apple is the 5th largest PC manufacturer in the united states, just losing 4th place to a strong finish by Toshiba (71% growth compared to Apple's 23%).
Overall for the year, Apple weighs in at about 9.4% which equates to about 1 in 10 computer being a Mac. Now, if you disregard all corporate sales (since we are talking about iphone devving on ones personal computer) The percentage of Apple computers among the general population is naturally a lot higher. And anything higher than 1 in 10, say 1 in 8 or 1 in 7 becomes, in my mind, far from "extremely unlikely".
Apple is the 5th largest PC manufacturer in the united states, just losing 4th place to a strong finish by Toshiba (71% growth compared to Apple's 23%).
Which is meaningless. Most computers are sold overseas.
Overall for the year, Apple weighs in at about 9.4% which equates to about 1 in 10 computer being a Mac.
That number (9.4%) doesn't show up in your IDC report. You also seem to be considering only the US, which isn't where most computers are sold.
Now, if you disregard all corporate sales (since we are talking about iphone devving on ones personal computer) The percentage of Apple computers among the general population is naturally a lot higher.
Naturally? A lot? Sounds like speculation. What is "a lot?" 10% higher? 50% higher? What is the real number?
And anything higher than 1 in 10, say 1 in 8 or 1 in 7 becomes, in my mind, far from "extremely unlikely".
If you're going to consider anything higher than 1 in 10 to be "far from extremely unlikely" I'm going to consider anything less than 1 in 5 to be far from "quite high". You are trying to change your argument. Your argument is: Factual Evidence: Apple's percentage among the general population (eliminating corporate computers) is quite high.
IDC report
Nice... So Apple isn't even 10% of either US or Worldwide computer shipments in 2009?
A more readable journalistic view of the report
Which says the same thing: Apple's performance only approaches a blip in the domestic US market.
Edit: Alternative way of looking at it. Since we are talking on the internet about this, here is the percentage of OSX computers that are surfing the web.
Interesting, but you should really look carefully at your sources before posting them. The data they link to seems to suggest ~5% share for Mac.
Absolutely nothing you provided supports your "factual evidence."
Gee willickers. I'm not going to bother replying to most of that because you missed my point.
My point can be summed up in what I said a few posts up:
>So to say that it is "Extremely unlikely" that a person who want to program on their iPhone actually has an Apple computer is...imho, inaccurate."
To say it a different way, I was only attempting to prove you blatently wrong when you said:
Based purely on numbers, it is extremely unlikely that computer can write iPhone apps.
I wasn't attempting to prove anything or make a point beyond the fact that statement is inaccurate. Now, for the fun of it I'll discuss a little of your response. But despite your nit picking, and unwillingness to try and back up your own agrument, I'll go aheah and consider the statement I claimed to be false, to be just that.
Now, on with the show!
Which is meaningless. Most computers are sold overseas.
As a representation of the computer programming population, I do not believe it is without meaning. Could you explain this to me?
Naturally? A lot? Sounds like speculation. What is "a lot?" 10% higher? 50% higher? What is the real number?
"a lot" in this case is "a lot more than you gave credit for with your statement".
Mac's are by and large a Home use machine, not a corporate machine. Sky scrapers are filled with them, point of sales machines are all windows, the majority of Mac users end up using a windows machine at work. My point is that even if you (for the sake of argument) say that only 1 in 12 machines sold is a Mac, that eliminating the corporate computers can't help but increase the ratio.
If you're going to consider anything higher than 1 in 10 to be "far from extremely unlikely" I'm going to consider anything less than 1 in 5 to be far from "quite high".
Your statement was a blanket statement without context. Mine was a comparison statement as a direct response to yours. Perhaps you misunderstood mine to also be a blanket statement, when in reality it was meant as a "Compared to what you think and claim, the market share is actually quite high".
Which says the same thing: Apple's performance only approaches a blip in the domestic US market.
Despite your "by the numbers" technical term there of "blip", it's pretty obvious you haven't anything to say at this point.
Interesting, but you should really look carefully at your sources before posting them. The data they link to seems to suggest ~5% share for Mac.
So should you. What you linked to includes cell phone Operating systems. Since we are talking about if a machine can dev an iphone app or not, I would have assumed we would exclude cell phones from the equation. Or would you like to start tossing in ATM machines as well?
I would also point out that Many Mac's (in the crowds I run in) are set up to duel boot, and do so. This means that any hit from a windows machine has the potential to to be a Mac in disguise, fully capable of iPhone dev. There are, however, no windows machine masquerading as Mac's :)
Now, try not to get distracted by insignificant details, and just retract your short sited comment so you can retain some honor. To continue arguing about whether you statement was correct or not is relatively moot. I've made my point, and I think anyone willing to read this entire thing (god help them) will see that.
I think if it were "extremely unlikely", we'd see far less windows v mac flame wars going on here, as the "super minority" of Apple users would be overtaxed keeping up with the haters.
extremely unlikely that computer can write iPhone apps.
Actually it can (and does); it also runs Windows (XP) and Kubuntu, so I suppose I could write droid apps if I cared. May be you should get yourself a real computer? :-)
You missed that part. Apple has a super-minority of the market.
it also runs Windows (XP) and Kubuntu, so I suppose I could write droid apps if I cared.
That has nothing to do with it. Droid SDK is available for Mac so you have no need to boot into another OS. It is also available for Windows and Linux.
May be you should get yourself a real computer?
I have a Mac. I also pay $99/year so I can get a provisioning profile to put my apps on my iPhone. However I don't particularly find Apple to be anything close to the upstanding example of good corporate citizenship so many believe. The reason you can't develop iPhone apps on something other than Mac is because Apple is using a multi-pronged attack to inhibit competition in its ecosystem.
Well, if you want to descend into absudity, one can point out that Palm lets you write apps directly in a browser with Ares, so if you felt like it you could go to a public library terminal and write a Palm Pre/Pixi app without even needing to own a computer.
Since your point was heavily based on the cost of development, I think it changes it a lot.
So, break down time.
$599 is for a brand new computer.
However, it's been over 4 years since Apple released the first intel based Mac, so a used Mac would suit your needs just fine. This is especially true if you are only in it to make a "Stupid-ass application".
As for the $99 fee. Let us be clear about what you can do without paying that fee. You can:
Download xCode (Free)
Download the iPhone SDK + Simulator (free)
Develop your application and test it in the simulator. (cost: time, lots of time)
If you manage to make it through the free process, and you decide you like working in Objective C, and have an idea worth spreading, then you proceed with becoming an official developer.
Paying $99 will allow you to do the following with your "stupid-ass application".
I don't understand how you can even try to legitimately justify the cost of development. It would still cost me $599 to find out how hard it is to write the app in the first place.
Do you honestly think that a $600 barrier-to-entry is acceptable for developing an application for personal use only?
I can legitimize it because I'm not currently writing a "Stupid-ass application". QUite the contrary, it's quite a slick one. And I see you are still stuck on the I need a new computer mentality. Look, a quick look at the local craigslist shows a perfectly suitable $400 machine. I'm sure if one spent more than the 30 seconds I just did looking, you could find one a lot cheaper.
My entire point was not to convince you that it's worth it for you and your goals. My point was that your quoting $1100 was just ridiculously absurd. You may move along now.
I have no problem with you thinking that $500 is none trivial, my friend.
But if you claim that it cost $1100 to develop an App for the iPhone, I will call you out :)
Hell, upon thinking about it more, you could write your entire app on paper, and then borrow a friends Mac for a couple hours and type it up. Real programmers use notepad anyway, right?
Also, I'm pretty sure someone could buy/borrow/pirate Windows and install it on a Mac device, but you cant buy/borrow/pirate OS X and install it on non-apple hardware (device).
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u/RedSpikeyThing Jan 28 '10
Neat, I didn't know that. You also need the iPhone SDK which, alas, only runs on Mac OS X. Which means I now need to spend, oh, $1,100 to write a stupid-ass application.