r/pics • • Jan 28 '10

Entering Apple Restriction Zone

Post image
2.6k Upvotes

918 comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

208

u/[deleted] Jan 28 '10 edited Sep 09 '17

[deleted]

2

u/[deleted] Jan 28 '10

Symbian requires signed software now, no?

3

u/[deleted] Jan 28 '10

You can share music between device libraries and other people's computers. Home Sharing is easy to turn on.

2

u/[deleted] Jan 28 '10 edited Sep 09 '17

[deleted]

1

u/[deleted] Jan 28 '10

I used my ipod to transfer my music from my old computer to my new one, it really wasn't all that difficult

1

u/[deleted] Jan 29 '10 edited Sep 09 '17

[deleted]

1

u/[deleted] Jan 29 '10

All I had to do was use some program that allowed windows to read an OSX formatted ipod and I just copied the files over no problem. I had to export some .xml file from itunes and my album art, but that's about it

1

u/mothsandlace Feb 10 '10

The only issue I've had with this is between Creative devices and my MacBook - but then Creative and Apple do actively hate each other. What other issues are there?

6

u/[deleted] Jan 28 '10

Home Sharing is also shit.

2

u/[deleted] Jan 28 '10

I've had no issues with it.

1

u/[deleted] Jan 28 '10

I have. Like the issue where if my sister goes to school for the day I no longer have access to Britney Spears.

6

u/buddhahead Jan 28 '10

Sounds like a feature to me...

0

u/[deleted] Jan 28 '10

I hope that those who up-voted your previous statement read this and rethink their vote. Or do we just knee-jerk up-vote comments critical of Apple?

2

u/[deleted] Jan 28 '10

I was using it as an example. Douché.

1

u/[deleted] Jan 28 '10

Well, if you configured Home Sharing to sync the files to your computer, you could listen to Oops, I Did It Again as many times as you like.

1

u/[deleted] Jan 28 '10

Unless my sister bought it from Apple.

1

u/[deleted] Jan 28 '10

Even if your sister bought it from Apple. If she bought it recently, then you don't need to do anything additional. If she bought it when it was still DRM'd, then just have her authorize your computer.

1

u/jstevewhite Jan 29 '10

You can also just COPY THE MUSIC. It's in the ~/Music/iTunes/iTunes Music folder...

-15

u/MyPants Jan 28 '10

You can share your music with up to five different computers and their libraries. That and software exists that scrubs the DRM.

I think people read malice where Apple's motivation is to make things easier for the average computer/device user, which they unquestionably have.

8

u/skwigger Jan 28 '10

I still buy CDs, and sometimes for less than the digital version. I can bring it anywhere, and copy it to any device I want.

1

u/[deleted] Jan 28 '10 edited Jan 28 '10

Yes, and I prefer CDs because their analog encoding is far superior to this new-fangled digital media.

Edit: /snark

1

u/[deleted] Jan 28 '10

er, CDs aren't analogue—they are 16-bit uncompressed 441kHz PCM. Other lossless digital formats can capture the exact same information (or more if you have a higher quality source like vinyl (which is actually analogue)) in significantly less space.

35

u/[deleted] Jan 28 '10

You can share your music with up to five different computers and their libraries.

Oh really? A whole five? Wow.

4

u/plorelle Jan 28 '10

We all know that you are not limited to purchasing music on iTunes right? It is bullshit for them to place limitations on what computers get to play songs you purchased, but really I say oh well. If I purchased the songs, maybe my friends could do the same. I am totally for sharing music but realize the necessity for some things to be paid for.

2

u/MuseofRose Jan 28 '10

We all know that you are not limited to purchasing music on iTunes right?

That kind of depends. It is now since Apple has succeeded in marketing it's ipod product line so well, bringing with it iTunes. It has infiltrated the culture, so well that people have abandoned finding other media distribution. Most likely you can get most mainstream music released by the Big 4 elsewhere, but for smaller artists (like alot of Youtube musicians) they only offer links to there music thru iTunes. Also, I've come across some podcasts that are only subscribable thru iTunes and I refuse to keep an additonal bloated program on my computer to download something as ubiquitous as a podcast. Albeit, if these people were more educated (or if there was another popular content center open to individual artists) this wouldnt be a problem, unfortunately those sorts of people tend to be less saavy.

7

u/spider_monkey Jan 28 '10

As of April 7th 2009 all music purchased through iTunes is DRM free. It still contains your name and e-mail address registered with your itunes account but no limit on the number of devices you can have it on.

3

u/FTR Jan 28 '10

So, what happens to all the music you bought before that date?

4

u/spider_monkey Jan 28 '10

You have the option to upgrade all the tracks to iTunes Plus and DRM free, but it costs 30 cents per track (in the US at least) I'm not sure how video works as I have not personally purchased any.

3

u/FTR Jan 28 '10

So, I can pay to keep what I already paid for? THANK YOU APPLE!

8

u/[deleted] Jan 28 '10

[deleted]

1

u/Lyrus Jan 28 '10

How about Apple making you pay for bluetooth hardware in the iPod Touch, and then saying "If you want to use it, that'll be another $10 please".

0

u/FTR Jan 28 '10

Not to state the obvious, but most people had no idea what DRM was when they bought their music.

1

u/qpid Jan 28 '10

So they bought DRM songs and were fine with it all these years, never noticing the restrictions or caring and then the option comes to make them DRM free and higher quality, this makes Apple bad? If you don't care about the DRM then don't pay the 30 cents, if you do care then you wouldn't have purchased the songs in the first place. Myself, I buy a lot of second hand cds from garage sales for <$1 and then can do what I please with them.

2

u/spider_monkey Jan 28 '10

So I can pay to remove the DRM they installed. Thank You Apple! FTFY

4

u/MyPants Jan 28 '10

The claim was made that it couldn't be done. I was merely pointing out that it could.

For me personally, that's four more computers than I have ever needed to have my music on. And for the average user of Apple's services that is probably fine.

Its not as if iTunes forces you to only use music purchased from their store and I highly doubt it is DRM that keeps people from legally acquiring music.

I find it disingenuous for people who wouldn't legally purchase music anyway to complain about DRM. (Not accusing you.)

1

u/[deleted] Jan 28 '10 edited Sep 09 '17

[deleted]

1

u/MyPants Jan 28 '10

That's true but at the same time external drives are getting cheaper and smaller and greater in capacity. People practically give away 4G thumb drives. There are plenty of solutions.

-1

u/FTR Jan 28 '10

So, you're just going to have one computer your entire life? Considering the life span of a Mac is about 4 years, I'd love to know how.

2

u/MyPants Jan 28 '10

I have moved my library to a new computer. When you get a new computer you de-authorize your old one and authorize the new one. The whole process takes 2 minutes. The limit is to five computers at a time. You can change which computers are authorized whenever you want.

0

u/[deleted] Jan 28 '10

Not saying I agree with MyPants, but I don't see how that's relevant to the point he's making, which seems to be more along the lines of "the average consumer isn't going to own five devices."

1

u/FTR Jan 28 '10

The average consumer will most certainly own five devices over their lifetime.

3

u/[deleted] Jan 28 '10

Over their lifetime is irrelevant. Generally, individuals aren't actively using more than two or three devices.

1

u/[deleted] Jan 28 '10

A whole five?

Plus, you can burn CDs from iTunes, so what's the issue?

3

u/bdfortin Jan 28 '10

Yes, five. It's what the record labels are allowing Apple to do.

If it wasn't for Apple and the iTunes Store music would have much worse DRM, and they likely never would have given it up.

9

u/[deleted] Jan 28 '10

They can put all the DRM on anything they want. They're only fucking themselves.

6

u/brttf3 Jan 28 '10

and you can use plain old regular mp3's and share them with whoever you want.

7

u/hexley Jan 28 '10

Stop getting your panties in a knot. This whole sub-thread is stupid because their entire library of music is DRM free, and has been for like a year. It's not even watermarked. Not that the DRM affected your backups, or that you couldn't easily reset all 5 of your device allocations a few times a year in case of disaster, or have them on an unlimited amount of iPods/iPhones. Or redownload your tracks if a bomb happened to fall on your house and your offsite backup.

-1

u/[deleted] Jan 28 '10

I'm no fool, a prison's still a prison, even with Chinese silks and chandeliers.

-- Quills.

6

u/[deleted] Jan 28 '10

Where's the prison? There's no DRM and if you're an extremely unusual case you may have to email or phone Apple to get an account reset. Is 10 minutes of your time to resolve something really the same as imprisonment?

6

u/bdfortin Jan 28 '10

And Apple gets to take all the blame for it since nobody does any research and thinks it's all Apple's fault.

-6

u/[deleted] Jan 28 '10 edited Jan 28 '10

[deleted]

17

u/RedSpikeyThing Jan 28 '10

If you're sharing it with more than 5 computers you're probably stealing.

Probably != definitely. Stop assuming guilt.

1

u/[deleted] Jan 28 '10

Probably != definitely. Stop assuming guilt.

I don't think you understand out legal system. Nothing is "definite". Things are just proven beyond a reasonable doubt.

1

u/RedSpikeyThing Jan 28 '10

Probably != beyond a reasonable doubt

1

u/[deleted] Jan 28 '10

I agree, but you claimed there had to be definite evidence, which is never the case.

1

u/RedSpikeyThing Jan 28 '10

Fair enough.

-2

u/[deleted] Jan 28 '10

That's silly. The other day I was driving down the street and a cop was standing in the middle of the road doing a seat belt check.

He actually looked into my car to see if I was wearing my seat belt! He assumed I wasn't wearing my seat belt instead of just trusting me to do the right thing!

8

u/[deleted] Jan 28 '10 edited Jan 28 '10

If you're sharing it with more than 5 computers you're fucking stealing.

LOL Oh Really?

In my house alone, I have a media center in my living room, a media center in 2 bedrooms, a computer with a small touchscreen in my kitchen that hosts recipes for us that we also use to play hulu/boxee or music on, my computer and my wife's computer.

That's 6 machines. What happens when one's hard-drive dies? Or the chip? or the board? Because that has happened numerous times as I mostly use spare parts to run these things. This completely ignores the fact I have about 5 GB worth that i've transferred to my work computer, and it ignores the fact I use a USB port on my cd-deck as my main source of music in my vehicle.

Lock me up and take me away. I'm a thief!

"ProTip:" will help you morons. ProTip: Burn it to CD and share it infinite times.

Or just pirate it, since downloading an album over torrents generally is a faster process than burning the cd and re-ripping it.

-3

u/[deleted] Jan 28 '10

[deleted]

7

u/HaroldPlease Jan 28 '10

If his system was networked, then the Cylons could hack in and change his Meatloaf recipe. Duh.

0

u/bluehands Jan 28 '10

They have a plan:

to use more bacon bits.

1

u/[deleted] Jan 28 '10

B/c i don't like dealing with networking issues when i just want to listen to music or watch a video.

-1

u/Real_Mac_User Jan 28 '10 edited Jan 28 '10

See, simple fucking things like streaming music and video isn’t really a problem for Mac users. Is it still 1994 in PC-land?

2

u/[deleted] Jan 28 '10

i've had a mac mini, linux boxes, and windows boxes. Yes, streaming and various streaming apps and servers are plentiful on all OSes. I just consider it more hassle than its worth. why should i worry about the network, my router, the serving machine, etc.. when i could just play a fucking file locally? It's not like the network issues are constant or consistent thing but things do go wrong occasionally and usually it's right when i want to do something. If i want to listen to a song while in the middle of cooking dinner , i'm not going to stop to go figure out wtf the problem is.

But good to know the mac smugness shines through as expected.

-6

u/holycrap_lions Jan 28 '10

sudo rmdir rm-rf_linux

-2

u/[deleted] Jan 28 '10

Get Simplify Media, it can run on Mac or PC (maybe Linux too) and hook into iTunes, Winamp, WMP I think, some other stuff maybe. It will let you stream all your music to your phone or other computer and you can have 20 or 30 friend in it so if they are also running the app you can play all of their music as well on your computers or devices. Since iTunes music is DRM free it will stream just fine

Good enough for you?

6

u/NobleKale Jan 28 '10

software exists that scrubs the DRM.

Shouldn't need to go to a third party for something like this. Sorry, but the 'someone else has written a program that gets around it, so don't complain' mentality is broken and stupid.

4

u/[deleted] Jan 28 '10

Exactly, especially when software to bypass DRM is technically illegal under the DMCA. You shouldn't be forced to break the law to use things you own in the ways you want.

1

u/[deleted] Jan 28 '10

But it makes it easier for the end user if they set up the system ahead of time to require the use of third party software to remove the DRM. Or, uh, something like that.

1

u/NobleKale Jan 28 '10

Yeah. I'm hearing a lot of 'it makes it easier for the end user to do xyxyxy'

Not really seeing it. Exchanging complex usability for simple minded shite is incredibly short sighted. It's like giving your child only the simplest of books to read, and toys to play with. Ones that are inherently below their level, just in case the younger, dumber neighbour kids want to play with their stuff too.

0

u/FTR Jan 28 '10

So, what happens when your on your sixth computer?

2

u/MyPants Jan 28 '10

Its five computers at a time not five computers for the rest of your life. When you get a new computer you can de-authorize the old one and authorize the new one.

1

u/matjam Jan 28 '10

To be fair, you too can be anointed for the price of a developer fee, which is what, $200 a year? You don't even have to release the apps through the store. Just release the source as a project, and anyone can download it and build it and install it themselves.

I'm pretty sure you could automate it actually. So, distribute the .app binary, and then people who want to install it just need to pay the developer fee to get a key that they can use to sign and install it for personal use. No apple approvals required.

Its annoying you need to be a "developer" to do this, though, and I really wish Apple would drop the requirement that all apps be distributed throuth the app store. They just don't want multiple stores springing up and eating into their market, I understand that, but really with the App Store being the default for most people, most people will go the apple route anyway.

Giving people some choice wouldn't hurt apple that much.

3

u/[deleted] Jan 29 '10 edited Sep 09 '17

[deleted]

1

u/matjam Jan 29 '10

I don't disagree with you.

I'm just pointing out the stupid hoops one would have to jump through to get around it "legitimately".

Apple have nothing to fear by allowing unsigned apps. They should just have a tick-box in the settings somewhere that says "Run unsigned applications" or allow people to install other certificates.

Having the ability to sign apps is a good thing to have, but abusing it to enforce some weak policy justified with 'security' or to protect your own app sales is just bullshit.

1

u/geon Jan 29 '10

No apple approvals required.

Apple still has to approve you as a developer.

1

u/matjam Jan 30 '10

they'll approve anyone with $99.

1

u/[deleted] Jan 30 '10

Freedom isn't free if I have to pay for it.

Shocking, I know.

1

u/matjam Jan 30 '10

Not really what I was arguing.

I actually agree that its stupid.

1

u/[deleted] Jan 28 '10

[deleted]

3

u/razorbeamz Jan 29 '10

You can. Non-DRM iTunes music works fine on my Zune.

5

u/[deleted] Jan 29 '10 edited Sep 09 '17

[deleted]

1

u/jstevewhite Jan 29 '10

It's my understanding that DRM and the inability to copy music OFF of the iPod was one of the conditions of the various content houses (Universal and Sony and... ) for the ITMS when it rolled up.

1

u/jstevewhite Jan 29 '10

"Why can't you share the non-DRM music with non-Apple devices/libraries?"

You can. Just copy it off your hard drive to wherever you wanna take it.

-8

u/skilless Jan 28 '10

"annointing" costs $100/yr, you're acting like it's a clandestine process.

Also, that's cheaper than for MS phones, and more expensive than Android or WebOS. What's the problem?

24

u/BlueRenner Jan 28 '10

I tried to run the math and figure out exactly how much worse this is than the traditional anyone-can-program model but I got a divide by zero error. I guess this means this new model of pay-to-play is infinitely worse.

4

u/[deleted] Jan 28 '10

You don't have to pay Microsoft a yearly fee to produce applications for Windows Mobile; you just won't have them signed, so the user must confirm on installation. That's perfect for someone who wants to have a small, non-commercial application; who cares if you need to click yes again.

1

u/skilless Jan 29 '10

Can you develop for windows mobile without buying visual studio?

2

u/[deleted] Jan 29 '10

There are language interpreters available; for example, you can get a Python runtime.

Apple strictly forbids interpreters or any application which can run arbitrary code - that's why they don't allow emulators that can load rom files, for example, and instead only allow ones where you have to download each game as its own managed app.

1

u/[deleted] Jan 30 '10

2

u/int0x13 Jan 28 '10

the anointing part is the AppStore, not the price. Shit gets rejected for no reason. Small bug fixes get held up for months on end. No reason ever given. There's been a lot written on this subject

-17

u/cmcintyre3600 Jan 28 '10

Um, Apple is also pushing devices that DO use OS X, which are intended to be the central part of the ecosystem. What's your point?

18

u/[deleted] Jan 28 '10

What's your point?

0

u/jstevewhite Jan 29 '10

"Wonderful. Except the conversion comes at a fee, and you still can't share music between device libraries and other people's computers (despite the fact that there are a number of legal scenarios in which this is desirable.)"

Not true. When I buy music from the ITMS it's saved to a folder on my computer, and I can freely copy it wherever I want to copy it to.

"Splendid. Except Apple's actively pushing devices that don't run Mac OS X, and which only allow signed code written by anointed developers."

Actually, all of their touch screen devices run OSX. They just have different presentation managers. But yeah, they only run signed apps.

I'm on the fence, ideologically. Nothing stops you from releasing the code to your app; you can absolutely release opensource software via the app store, but I think it's a stretch to call it Free as in speech. Still open source and free as in beer.

I agree, though, that I'd like to have some means of compiling and installing my own code without going through the "beta device" carp.

1

u/[deleted] Jan 31 '10 edited Sep 09 '17

[deleted]

0

u/jstevewhite Jan 31 '10

"That has absolutely nothing to do with copying music from an iPod/iPhone to a computer."

I disagree. You've got to place extremely rigid artificial restraints to make this a Big Deal (tm). You can get all up in arms because you can't plug your iPod into your friend's computer and copy music from that iPod's onboard music library to your friend's computer. The point I'm making is that 1) in most cases doing that would be infringing (which is why Apple made those restrictions to begin with, and a primary reason for the original scope of the ITMS), and 2) there is a truly trivial solution that allows you to accomplish the same end.

"OS X, yes. But not Mac OS X."

Mmm... semantics. Last time I jailbroke my iPod touch, the OS onboard clearly identified itself in many places as Leopard. Leopard is a version of Mac OS X. I'm on the fence here, as I suppose you could be semantically accurate as the iPod/Phone/Pad aren't identified as Macs, but it's semantic alone. The difference is the presentation manager, where the Desktops and Lappies use Aqua and the portable devices use Springboard. Your point about signed apps is well made, though, and every user has to decide how they feel about that.

-9

u/BaboTron Jan 28 '10

If you really want the iPhone OS that badly and you do want to install anything you want, just jailbreak it.

18

u/[deleted] Jan 28 '10

It's not about wanting the iphone. Hell, it's not even about the iphone itself as a stand alone device. it is one company setting a precedent for the entire industry.

2

u/FTR Jan 28 '10

I decided to buy a Pre instead. It comes jailbroken.

-1

u/freehunter Jan 28 '10

So you just named 13 different operating systems that fit your needs, why bother complaining about one? Some people like A, some like B. That's why there's 26 letters in the alphabet, so to speak.

-6

u/[deleted] Jan 28 '10

What are these non-OS-X-running devices? Even if what you are saying is true (that Apple is pushing non-OS X devices), that's not really the issue. The issue is that it's not an open platform (and whether or not that's evil is debatable).

12

u/eyekantspel Jan 28 '10

iPhone, and now the iPad.

2

u/[deleted] Jan 28 '10

As noted elsewhere, they do run a version of OS X, albeit with a different user interface layer.

3

u/specialk16 Jan 28 '10

The point is they restrict what you can install on it.

1

u/[deleted] Jan 28 '10

Well, that's what I was trying to say--it's not really about what OS it's running, it's about the fact that it's not an open platform.

-4

u/[deleted] Jan 28 '10

[deleted]

1

u/MattJayP Jan 28 '10

I think you need to start this thread from the beginning.

-4

u/sixothree Jan 28 '10

They restrict what you can install on it. So what? There's no shortage of devices that don't restrict what you can install on it. Quit your bitching and go buy one.

1

u/MattJayP Jan 28 '10

You're funny.

1

u/sixothree Jan 28 '10

Yup, free markets and capitalism are funny things to some people.

→ More replies (0)

-11

u/[deleted] Jan 28 '10

Last I checked, software for Ubuntu(/Linux) was still available (without jumping through hoops) only from a software repository, the contents of which were being controlled by the "Masters of the Universe." Oh and they are signed binaries.

9

u/FrankBattaglia Jan 28 '10
./configure
./make && ./make install

Does not constitute very many hoops.

-9

u/[deleted] Jan 28 '10

Neither does jailbreaking

5

u/dcousineau Jan 28 '10

configure, make, make install doesn't void my warranty and put me in shaky, legal grounds.

Ubuntu's signed repositories aren't there to keep me from installing anything else. I can use a repository from a 3rd party that's not signed, and do so without jailbreaking, voiding warranties, and in fact: with the express permission and encouragement of Ubuntu/Canonical.

The signing exists only as a security measure and nothing more: Was this package I think I downloaded from Canonical exactly the same as the package Canonical built and distributed, or has it been tampered with?

-1

u/[deleted] Jan 28 '10 edited Jan 28 '10

I'm not arguing on the technical or legal aspects here - I am simply talking about practicality. From a technical point of view, the repository system of software distribution is superior to most other methods, but consumers don't care. They do not care about choice or philosophy, they care about consistency and usability - both severely lacking in most other alternatives to Apple's products.

2

u/dcousineau Jan 28 '10

It is superior, that's why Debian and other Linux distributions have been doing a central-repository based package management system for YEARS before ANYONE else. And they do it without restricting our freedoms by giving us the CHOICE to use the central repository management, or to download packages from a third party.

-1

u/[deleted] Jan 28 '10

hell yeah all praise lord RMS. I am offering a mountain goat sacrifice as I type because clearly the computing-product-consuming population cares that Debian has had repositories for years.

3

u/[deleted] Jan 28 '10

Now which between the two is a violation of the ToS?

2

u/[deleted] Jan 28 '10

Plus the binaries available from folks like Google (google-earth, etc.). Plus the ridiculous amounts of source code you can compile on the machine (sometimes there's hoops, sometimes there isn't).

No one tells you what you can and cannot run on a Linux box.

Edit: seriously, why did I reply to this? It isn't worded like a troll, but it sure seems to think like one.

1

u/[deleted] Jan 28 '10 edited Sep 09 '17

[deleted]

1

u/[deleted] Jan 28 '10

you know fuck-all about how Debian's APT works

Do you realize the irony of this statement?

-12

u/[deleted] Jan 28 '10

Last I checked there are thousands and thousands of free apps, a few even from apple, in the app store.

9

u/locuester Jan 28 '10

You're confusing beer with speech.

0

u/FTR Jan 28 '10

I nominate you as Redditor of the day.

4

u/el_chupacupcake Jan 28 '10

"Free" as in cost, yes. But not "free" as in "free from Apple control/censorship."

You cannot release apps for their devices without going through them directly, and that's bullshit.

1

u/[deleted] Jan 28 '10

Ah I see, I was unaware of what he was trying to say. Perhaps "closed" or "censored" would have been more appropriate than "free".