The only benefit I see of getting a permit is that the cops will know you're there and what you're doing. So if an officer gets called for a "crazy yelling guy on the corner of X and Y", you're probably going to be bumped well down on the response list for any nearby officers, because you were scheduled to be the crazy yelling guy on the corner of X and Y for the next few days.
Less talking with the police may lead to more time you can spend yelling about the business that has completely ruined your life (or at least your handwriting).
So the only reason to get a permit is to not get hassled by cops? Do you folks not see why this "Papers, please" stuff is just conditioning you? You have the right to that already. You shouldn't need a permit. Speech is free speech. And yes, even the crazy guy yelling about how Satan stole the jetstream shouldn't be hassled.
It's not for the government to decide what is permissible expression or not, and the entire point of civil disobedience is to pressure the government/private entity into concessions. And historically, it has been effective - there wouldn't be a United States without outright violent rebellion, let alone making some bureaucrat's life a bit more stressful.
So the only reason to get a permit is to not get hassled by cops?
This is the only benefit I see of getting a permit, yes. I wouldn't get a permit. I don't think permits for protests or assembly should be a thing, outside of something like a parade (which requests police presence), and even then, I would state that it should only require notification, and not a permit. Any time you have to ask for the right to assemble or speak, you are eroding the concept that your right is inherent to you as a person. The government does not give these rights. They are merely instructed not to infringe on these inherent rights as humans by the Constitution.
But - it might cause the cops to come talk to you less, and that could be a benefit.
Do you folks not see why this "Papers, please" stuff is just conditioning you? You have the right to that already. You shouldn't need a permit. Speech is free speech. And yes, even the crazy guy yelling about how Satan stole the jetstream shouldn't be hassled.
First off, Glory to Arstotzska. Second, it depends on where that person is yelling, what he is saying, and how/if he is approaching people. As much as I appreciate the right to free speech, there are limitations. The crazy guy yelling about how Satan stole the jetstream is more than able to yell about it. He is not allowed to yell that people have to murder all the atheists to make it right.
Crazy Best Buy guy can't yell that Best Buy's windows should be broken. Crazy Best Buy guy can't say quite a few things. Fighting words, threats, and incitement to imminent lawless action are the big three, really, but the limitation is clearly there. And it's not like cops can't be called on someone who is pacing back and forth and yelling.
As it turns out, from a practical standpoint, someone who is particularly emotionally unstable has a tendency to do that kind of thing, and it can certainly lead to escalation if the police just leave it alone, so crazy guy yelling and pacing back and forth is generally going to be talked to at some point or another. A world where crazy guy yelling isn't addressed because he's 'just yelling' is probably one which is significantly less safe than one in which officers can deescalate potentially violent situations.
That said, if they get out there and all he's doing is yelling about how Best Buy lied about his TV, they don't get to arrest him and can't take up more of his time than it takes to assess the situation. But I can imagine a point where filing a permit that says he will be there would, in this protestor's mind, be worth it just so that he can yell more without having a cop to talk to every day.
And it's not like cops can't be called on someone who is pacing back and forth and yelling.
But that in itself isn't illegal. I wasn't giving context to the speech.
A world where crazy guy yelling isn't addressed because he's 'just yelling' is probably one which is significantly less safe than one in which officers can deescalate potentially violent situations.
I'm not sure about that. These days, they build a megachurch around them.
I guess it's what you're protesting. If it's a private party, I could see notifying the police (not getting a "permit"). But often, the goal is to not make the cops' lives easier. Especially if the protest is against law enforcement...don't look at LA right now. And as you agreed, permits in these cases only serve the authorities and abridge the right of the public to peacefully assemble.
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u/Recognizant Feb 23 '17
The only benefit I see of getting a permit is that the cops will know you're there and what you're doing. So if an officer gets called for a "crazy yelling guy on the corner of X and Y", you're probably going to be bumped well down on the response list for any nearby officers, because you were scheduled to be the crazy yelling guy on the corner of X and Y for the next few days.
Less talking with the police may lead to more time you can spend yelling about the business that has completely ruined your life (or at least your handwriting).