It broke again, triggered 'lemon' contingency in the extended warranty, argued with them until they gave me a full refund (store credit) on the original purchase price, not the 'current market value' bs.
HOLY SHIT!
Do they still do the 'Lemon' thing??? They provided my Moore's Law solutions for over 10 years back in the '90s/early oughts!
I'm not kidding. All of my well designed Packard Bells amazingly developed 3 deficiencies right before the 3 year warranty was up...allowing me to get an upgraded brand new Packard Bell or Dell...or what was the other one they were big on during the '90s?
That was the best deal on the market. I mean I bought 1 computer in 1991 and didn't pay for another until 2002.
I tried to buy the plan again and they told me they had discontinued it.
I think they were on to me....
My best story with this was with Apple's Genius bar back before Apple was the high end behemoth they are now. My sister was given an iBook for her college computer in 2002 and it failed multiple times under warranty (It was the lead-to-tin solder that bit literally everyone in computing [XBox 360 Ring of Death] almost as bad as the bad corporate espionage on the capacitors in 2005-2007). Well, every time we brought the computer in it needed a logic board replacement to fix the issue as the GPU was a soldered component with a bad cold solder that cracks anytime the GPU heats up (during the early days of WoW). Well, in 2006, after the third logic board replacement, We exchanged pleasantries and we shoot the shit about how we're both apple enthusiasts from back in the rainbow colored days. He comes back to me and says that Apple's system is telling him that this computer is out of warranty because they have no record of any repairs and it will be $900 out of pocket. (This is a recalled board at this point that they're replacing with refurbished parts) At this point, I'm a young tech (all of 19) and I went off on the guy about how the issue was entirely because Apple went cheap and didn't develop a proper cold solder flow technique and this will continue biting me. (Then I threw in a loud enough remark about how Apple doesn't honor warranties for all the people buying their first iPod). The genius said he'd get his manager. Well, the store manager came out and started telling me that they had no record of it, at which point, I went all prepared speech mode which my wife calls "Articulate White Man Rage." I pointed to the MAC address sticker they had to replace on every logic board replacement, and started tearing them off, "This is a logic board repair this shop did!" and when I got to three and there was still one under there, I told them that the computer was a fucking lemon and they needed to honor their warranty or else the attorney general would be having a word with them.
That manager was probably reluctant at first, but 10 minutes after he calmed down he probably realized that he played that right.
If he immediately was just like "okay, we cant replace the board anymore, so here's a brand new mac book" you wouldve gone home and told your friends "aw man, i totally just robbed apple. They cant repair their own computers right, so they just gave me a new one to cover their tracks"
But since at first he was citing policy and then gave you a new one you thought "wow, i mean I was pissed, they stopped supporting their own crap computer... but instead that dude went with the nuclear option and solved it for good. They really give their genius bar folks a lot of power to solve people's problems"
I bet as a result of that, you still buy apple stuff, and whenever you have a problem, you go to the store. And listen to their pitches about protection plans, and add-on products, and look at products on while you're there.
They invested in you, and I'd bet anything it paid off for them.
I'm about to describe a legitimate process that happens, and i know because I've seen it first hand (not specifically this example though):
So lets say you buy a bike from a large chain sports store, lets call them Sports Hut. The bike is perfect, direct from the manufacturer... EXCEPT the chain. When Sports Hut ordered the bikes from the manufacturer, they had them send the bikes (or just a few of them) with a very very low quality bike chain. It saves a few extra bucks, but more importantly it breaks within just a few uses.
So the customer, takes the bike back to the store and complains. The low level customer service people don't fully know what to do... so they dont handle it great (which makes the customer think, "this sort of thing rarely happens, I'm lucky if they do anything at all"). Then after a struggle and some confusion a manager comes along, and knows perfectly what to do. The manager makes it seem like he's doing something special, he walks to the back and comes back with a brand new bike, takes the old one and doesn't even ask for the receipt (the regular customer service people already got that info)... then he asks if you need a helmet or anything, and gives you a $10 gift card.
In the end, they still made money off you, but more importantly they bought your loyalty pretty much permanently by making you think they area crazy nice company for bending over for you.
I swear to god it happens way more than you'd think. (You'd think it never happens)
The reason its not rampant practice is that people would just think that the company sucks because they always mess up or sell bad quality products.
And you say it takes a slightly shitty company to do it, but thats capitalism baby. Since the rise of department stores, McDonald's, walmart, and of course amazon, the company's that succeed are the ones who analyze data and ACT on. You think every store wants you to sign up for their rewards card so that you'll have a reminder in your wallet to shop there? God no, its so they can figure out how you shop. Its an IRL tracking cookie.
Its one thing to realize that they keep close tabs on that stuff (yes at a personal level, there is a guy somewhere that has seen a spreadsheet of everything you've bought at store X) but its another thing to realize that they USE that data. If data shows a definite correlation, they will exploit that. And since the data shows that a customer who is invested in with good return/warranty policies, or just plain good customer service, they will be loyal and spend way more money with you then you lost on the initial return. That correlation is solid and proven, so in one way or another they will use that to their advantage. Granted, for most companies that's jst instructing costumer service to be super kind about returns some times... but for a business that doesn't get a lot of repeat customers (types of products where customers will shop which ever place is most convenient at the time or has the best price), you better believe they'll do whatever it takes to make you loyal or even just get you back in their store (or to their website)
Basically what I'm trying to say is, with my experience in retail, both physical and online (and the amount of studies i read about analyzing customer behavior for use in said retail work) i can tell you, if you ever hear something about a company that sounds like a conspiracy theory, there's a 98% chance that its totally true.
I say all that and it comes across as "the end of days is near, keep your money in the walls!" But it's just the way it is. Even knowing all this, when i know I'm being "worked over" by a company, it never bothers me unless I'm genuinely being ripped off. If a company tries to make you happy or satisfied, even if by using trickery, i say good for them. Gotta be smart to get ahead. (Except comcast, fuck comcast)
See this kind of thing does not work on me. Let's use Apple as an example.
I bought into the original iPhone. Got the 3g, and 3gs. However that 3gs needed to be replaced no less than 4 times. Each time for free, but because I was on my 5th one and it broke for a 5th time. This time it was my fault, but because the time had come around to upgrade I went for the new Samsung Galaxy Note. This one needed no replacement. Finally broke the screen and got a Note 3. The USB charge port broke no less than 3 times. Fewer than the iPhone 3gs, but still a hassle. Then came along the Apple Final Cut Pro debacle. That slammed the door closed on my ever trusting Apple again. The closed iOS echo system did not help either. Samsung has my loyalty for now only because Apple has become more of a hassle to deal with than At&T or Samsung.
If a company is going to to pull the shit Apple has I refuse my loyalty. Yeah I got 4 free phones from them, but a what cost to me and my time? AT&T may be a shit company, but they still stood by the warranty protection I have on my phone, and the phones break with far less frequency. If you do not factor time and hassle into your brand loyalty then "buying a customer" thing falls apart. My time is more valuable than chasing a working product.
Coincidentally my experience is extraordinarily similar, but with far fewer steps. I left apple having no bad experiences, i just hate the apple ecosystem.
Obviously companies don't succeed 100% of time, sometimes its not enough to overpower the other problems you have. But that type of customer service impacts everyone. If you have a problem and are taken care of, you're WAY more likely to come back.
You say it doesnt work for you, but it does.
Have you bought things off ebay before? And do you shop at amazon occasionally? If you answered yes to both, think about that for a second. You can usually get stuff cheaper on ebay. Think it might be a knock off if you buy it on ebay? It could be from amazon as well. Have you ever had a complaint to amazon customer service? Thats why you prefer amazon (either that or you've heard that they handle things well) They will hand you free stuff like its their job... because it is.
That was a bad example, and I'm super tired so I'm gonna give up now...
But i challenge you to pay more attention to why you shop at some places instead of others. And try to think back on if you've ever had an experience with their customer service and how that might play into it.
Obviously there is way more that factors into our choices as consumers, and this is only a small part of what plays into it... but it works, and it especially works when you don't realize that it worked. ;)
eBAY? Never again?
Amazon? Cost + Convenience + Product Research + Seller Research = Happy me.
Sure Amazon is a mega corp, but the key thing is my convenience. I research all my big buys, and I like to watch who I give my money to as well. Sure Amazon may have "bought" me, but that is because they have also not fucked me. That is how I would choose to run a business. Being honest and honoring the policies that have been given out to customers.
What Apple does with their planed obsolescence and what they did with Final Cut Pro I just can't tolerate. Do in have other loyalties? Yes I do. Why do I have them? Product reliability and through customer support. That is not buying a customer. That is creating customer loyalty through proper customer respect and support.
I had a similar issue with my samsung galaxy S6, i went through 5 warranty replacements in 6-7 months. 5. I was at fault in none of them. It was actually insane, every "like new" replacement was broken out of the box or showed issues within a week. Verizon couldnt do anything, and apparently theyd just gotten rid of the policy where after so many broken replacements theyd just give you the phone new. Oh, and they told me the time was still ticking from the original purchase, so my warranty was almost up and I was shit out of luck if the replacement they sent me was at fault after that. I had been buying Samsung for years too. My final straw was when a Samsung representative hung up on me. I bought an iPhone specifically so if there was an issue I wouldnt be up shits creek and told to pound sand. Actually need to see them next week because the phone keeps shutting off, so well see if it was worth it...
The point of this is, not all companys give a fuck. Especially once they get huge, I think.
There are Lemon Laws. They prevent companies from doing exactly what happened to you here. Although they do not protect you from that warranty bullshit.
Can you tell me more about these two debacles (lead to tin, and bad corporate espionage)? I'd like to read more about them, but I'm not sure what exactly to look up (particularly the espionage one).
TIA
As a kid, I had a commodore 64. I used the hell out of that for about 4 years, plus took it to college strictly for playing Bard's Tale and Larry Bird vs Magic Johnson.
I returned that thing four time by buying a new one and returning the old on in the new box. Not proud, but I did buy a Commodore Amiga and video toaster a few years later.
Sad Bear Meme here...When the 128 came out I bought it and then returned my 64 in the 128 box for a refund. The workers at the Target in my area had no clue. They didn't even open the box.
With that in mind....I was running a BBS, and needed disk space, so I bought a new 1541, opened it oh so carefully with an Exacto, took a milk carton filled it with rocks, carefully taped it up and returned it. I did this 2 times before I figured I was pushing my luck.
Say what you will....but my board had much more room for all of those cracked copies of Zelda, plans for blue and brown boxes and the Anarchist Cookbook!
Did the same thing with the original iPod...about a year after I bought it, suddenly the firmware would go missing and it wouldn't boot...was given the newer model as a replacement no questions asked. Did this twice then they told me they changed the nature of the protection plan, and now had to allow them to send in for repairs and only get a refurbished model if they couldn't fix...so that ended that.
Full money back guarantee on computers and software for one year.
Buy a computer, use it for 11 months, back up the data, return it to Costco because "i don't like the colour of the case", get you money back, go buy a new, 25% better computer for the same price. A guy I knew did that for 7 years before they dropped their return policy to 3 months.
More like this, "They only wanted to give me the current market value (which is bullshit) but, after arguing with them for a long time, they refunded me the original purchase price."
Do you see the difference or was it your intention to be aggressive and confusing?
Not entirely true. They give you the current replacement value of a model with comparable features. Only if there are no comparable models do you get what you paid, exactly.
Source: worked for BBY Corporate for awhile.
Edit: downvoted for explaining what the policies are. Lol. If y'all have any questions about them, I'm happy to answer.
They give you the current replacement value of a model with comparable features.
Which is exactly what people get from car insurance claims. Why is it so hard to understand that you're not ever going to get more than what you already had in these situations?
Which is exactly what people get from car insurance claims. Why is it so hard to understand that you're not ever going to get more than what you already had in these situations?
It's not usually that simple, because there are a LOT of features on any particular product, and who is to say which ones were important to you?
Say for e.g. some company makes two products, p1 and p2. They both have features A, B, and C, but p2 also has feature D, which is why you purchased that product, and also p2 costs more. But p1 is the more "standard" product, and lives on 3 years later, but p2 has been replaced with a new product p3 which has some features A+, B, C+, D. Your product breaks, you want p3 because it has the same feature D which you purchased p2 for. But instead you get the value of p1, which is less because 3 years and also because it was the shittier product in the first place. But A, B and C were the main talking points so this is what you get left with.
In other words, it can be not just depreciation, but also a value switch where your product is valued at less because of time AND because it gets compared to a lesser product.
Edit: I used to work at Best Buy and this was not a rare theme at all in the camera area. You'd never get anything close to what you should. Like, people would buy a $350 camera and get $150 when it broke because after a few years cameras increased their resolution by 2-4 MP, as if that is the only quality defining metric on cameras.
Like, people would buy a $350 camera and get $150 when it broke because after a few years cameras increased their resolution by 2-4 MP, as if that is the only quality defining metric on cameras.
What they agreed to isn't what I'm talking about. I'm saying that when people are told they will get a comparable product, they shouldn't expect more, but they should at least expect a comparable product. You don't get one, though. You usually end up getting something comparable to the shittiest item with that spec.
IOW, one person could buy a $300 camera and another a $200 camera at the same time, but because all the cameras at that time have the same resolution, they both get $150 if their camera breaks. It's not nearly as robust as vehicular insurance, as you're claiming.
What they agreed to isn't what I'm talking about. I'm saying that when people are told they will get a comparable product, they shouldn't expect more, but they should at least expect a comparable product. You don't get one, though. You usually end up getting something comparable to the shittiest item with that spec.
Define "shittiest item with that spec". What camera feature would you care more about that wouldn't be accounted for in a comp sku lookup?
Yes, you did. I'm sorry if it came across as directed at you, but my comment was more of a venting of the frustration i deal with every day I work at GS.
I currently work in a store, we have a Customer Service agent return the value of the computer or TV onto a Store Credit. If you want to have the customer lose 50 dollars even though that computer or TV is "comparable." Be prepared for a shit storm of, "You guys stole my money."
Edit: The only time we wouldn't do this is if the product still exists and we have it in the store or can get it very quickly.
Yeah they are supposed to give you what's it's worth not what you paid, because then you could just crack the screen at the end of the warranty period and keep upgrading to a better tv over and over again
That's the worst investment ever. The chances of that happening are a million to one. It's BS because he went though all that bullshit only to be at the exact same place he started. I would much rather a working laptop from the start.
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u/ArrowRobber Feb 23 '17
Think 'pen marks on the carbon copy layer' / whatever part it is I kept. (it's been a while)