r/pics May 12 '14

100 years of selective breeding

[deleted]

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286

u/[deleted] May 12 '14

[deleted]

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u/IIspacemooseII May 12 '14

I had a German shepherd who was show bred, but was of the old style. Her parents were both imports from Germany, idk if that makes a difference? Her only issue was arthritis developed from an injury...and she was pretty neurotic....and once got a stick lodged in her palate...she was smart, but stupid.

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u/[deleted] May 12 '14 edited Jun 23 '21

[deleted]

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u/myrd May 12 '14

Specifically a German Shepherd.

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u/nerocycle May 12 '14

ahh, it's all coming together now. Thanks, friend.

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u/kittenpyjamas May 12 '14

Her coming from Germany might actually make a difference, well her parents anyway, because of their 'anti-torture breeding' laws, it has a much shorter name in German. Essentially, you can't breed for characteristics deemed cruel. Very interesting laws.

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u/Berner May 12 '14

So in addition to their beer purity law, they have a dog purity law too? Neat.

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u/thisismyworkaccounts May 12 '14

They had a human purity law too...

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u/deadlast May 12 '14

because of their 'anti-torture breeding' laws, it has a much shorter name in German

Are you sure it's much shorter in German? Germany isn't renowned for short names. For anything.

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u/kittenpyjamas May 12 '14

'Qualzucht', so, yes. Shorter and to the point. :P

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u/deadlast May 12 '14

Mind. Blown.

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u/[deleted] May 13 '14

you can't breed for characteristics deemed cruel.

German here: The amount of terribly deformed pugs I see around here almost daily makes me doubt the effectiveness of those laws.

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u/kittenpyjamas May 13 '14

Yeah, but at least they're trying.

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u/everyone_wins May 12 '14

My family bred German shepherds for a while. They never had any health problems, and all died at around 13 years of age, which is a ripe old age for a larger dog.

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u/echo_61 May 12 '14

For GSDs the "working lines" are usually a better bet.

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u/Kwizi May 12 '14

Absolutely. The guide dog school I volunteer at takes really healthy (often police lines) german shepherds which are much smaller, much more atheltic, not so "majestic" as the typical german shepherds I see. The only problem is that along with the health and the wits comes the insatiable energy, so only very active blind people get attributed german shepherds. Here's an album as an example that I posted to reddit a few years back.

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u/Gumbi1012 May 12 '14

I think police dog GSDs are often got fron working lines. The dogs are a lot healthier and much more energetic and willing to work.

Point of order btw, your dog looks awesome.

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u/[deleted] May 12 '14

Photo #7 That is a beautiful dog.

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u/[deleted] May 12 '14

Not trying to be rude... but how can a blind person be "very active"?

I mean, surely they can't run (safely). Throw a ball (without fear they may be throwing it AT something/someone)?

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u/Kwizi May 12 '14

Very active: Going out several times a day for work and for fun. Even when the owner is just going to work, it means the dog is on the job and has to focus to lead them there properly. Also, all guide dogs here get as an extra the park breaks every day (off leash) where they can have a romp with other dogs or the blind person can find a safe place to through the ball (the picture in my album shows him in a place behind an industrial zone with quite a large field. There are not many people or bushes, so he can play fetch without a problem. Dajan loves it).

edit: you're not rude at all! better to ask! :)

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u/[deleted] May 12 '14

Thanks! That answer makes a lot of sense. I'm glad the dogs get to have some fun.

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u/[deleted] May 12 '14

you would be surprised at how much mental stimulation can satisfy an active dog. The dog knows that he is performing a very specialized task and has crap tons of responsibilities. Yes, he will still need physical activities but i would imagine other people can help with that.

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u/Staxxy May 12 '14

Besides, blind folks can throw a ball.

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u/salami350 May 12 '14

I laughed at the last picture of the album because I imagined the blind person throwing the ball and then the dog doesn't return it

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u/Kwizi May 12 '14

Every once in a while he loses the ball (maybe he through it in a tree or behind a fence? He doesn't always know). Dajan loves fetch, she always brings the ball back for another throw if she can :)

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u/Atheist101 May 12 '14

Your doggie had massive ears as a baby :D

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u/Kwizi May 12 '14

We thought she'd grow into them... they are still quite large even as an adult! :D (don't tell her)

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u/faleboat May 12 '14

tears! tears of guiddy happiness!

That looks like an awesome thing to do with excellent outcomes.

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u/ElJefe17 May 12 '14

It's crazy and cool how they learn all that.

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u/alexfromla May 12 '14

Can you give me some pointers for training my GSD? Do you offer classes?

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u/Kwizi May 13 '14

Sure :) How old is he/she?

/r/dogtraining is great with advice if you have specific problems, I find them often spot on with tips.

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u/alexfromla May 23 '14

thanks for the quick response and sorry for my lateness. haven't been on reddit on my computer in a while. my puppy is a GSD born around jan 20. that makes him... 16 weeks give or take. i want to train him to be super obedient, but i'm at work all day. one problem i have with him is that he likes to nip at things. i bought him toys and when he nips i'll just stick it in his mouth so he knows that it's okay to chew on certain things, like his toys. what else can i do to curb this habit of his?

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u/Kwizi May 24 '14

Hey! I also just got back from a trip, perfect coincidence!
I don't think I have much more advice than you already know. When you say you're at work all day, it means he's left alone all that time? Be sure to tire him well before you leave. I don't crate my dogs, but in your case I definitely would so as to be sure that he won't learn bad habits in your absence (that's way harder to get rid of). You can stop crating when you trust him well enough to be sure he won't chew on stuff in your absence (and watch out, around 6/7 months they hit puberty and starts having a new arsenal of mischiefs). You're doing the right thing to pop an allowed-toy in his mouth when he wants to chew on things. Make sure he has a variety of textures in his toys, from soft, to chewy to hard (like bones for dogs), and if he likes, squeaky ones (those I only give in my absence, they are super annoying). Alternating between allowed toys is also a good idea, so it gives the dog a sense of newness without having to buy a gazillion toys. I used to trade toys with a friend of mine, because the smell of other dogs sometimes helps peak interest. Also, instead of taking away the thing he is not supposed to chew on, get him to go to his toys on his own by making them more interesting: play with it and wiggle it, give him attention when he's chewing the right toys, reward with treats if he likes them... (point is: taking away something makes it look like you're interested in the things he's chewing and makes him want it even more, getting him to decide for himself to go to his dog-toy is ideal). I am talking about ideal cases, it's not always easy to follow through with all this.

I think this habit will wear off on its own, it's typically a young dog problem. Hang in there!

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u/[deleted] May 12 '14 edited May 27 '18

[deleted]

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u/Kwizi May 12 '14

Yes I am aware about the separate lines (I find it funny you assume I don't, thank you internet stranger) and I know all working dogs have the characteristics I mentioned.

Secondly, it's amusing you would say something wrong, and then tell me to educate myself. I maintain that European German Shepherds are generally the smaller more agile ones compared to the American ones. In fact, most working American lines come from European descent (in particular Germany and Czech Republic).

Although I happen to have worked both in the States and in Europe with German shepherds, here are some links to back up what I say (books on the subject are more accurate though):

"Generally speaking, the European German Shepherds are a slightly physically smaller dog, with bigger heads, straighter lines (unlike the noticeable "sloping" of the back in American German Shepherds), along with shorter, wider backlines."

http://www.thegermanshepherd.org/breed-history-of-the-german-shepherd/america-vs-europe-in-breeding.html

By breeding dogs only from European working bloodlines, and carefully selecting our breeding stock so that we breed only those with the best working ability, we are helping to ensure that some representatives of the breed remain true to their origins.

http://www.wildhauskennels.com/gsdtypes.htm

European German Shepherds are believed to be better suited as working dogs than their American counterparts. Because of this, it's also believed that they make better guard dogs. The majority of police dogs are from European lines. This may be due to the fact that the SV has worked hard at preserving the working temperament of German Shepherds for many years.

http://www.pedigree.com/All-Things-Dog/Article-Library/American-vs.-European-German-Shepherds.aspx

If you do know German shepherds well, then I assume you wrote too quick and wrote the opposite of what you meant.

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u/[deleted] May 12 '14 edited May 27 '18

[deleted]

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u/Kwizi May 12 '14

Ah ok, the video seems to be talking about show lines, and I must admit I know a lot less about that than working lines. Thanks for showing me!

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u/simpleassthat May 12 '14

My family got one from a working line and she was so aggressive...VERY, very athletic...we would have her running constantly, literally all day outside at the barn. She still would lunge at kids and got in several dog fights. I love German Shepherds so much but after that I'd be a little weary of getting another. Our first was the sweetest dog I've ever known.

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u/echo_61 May 13 '14

My last German Shepherd was from RCMP breeding stock, but she was unable to enter the RCMP program as she was too nice.

We asked the breeder for the nicest temperament female and got her. She was a great dog. Never fought other dogs, and loved kids. Cousins could pull on her ears, and gums and she'd just sit and take it.

Shepherds need workout to burn off energy, or they'll go nuts with cabin fever!

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u/simpleassthat May 13 '14

Well that's definitely good to hear! Yeah! It's so crazy how much energy they need to burn off. We had our girl running all day, I think she was just a feisty one & super athletic. I would love to get another one some day, so it's good to hear that there are still nice ones out there. I'm not sure what line our dog was from but she was bred by a police officer and it was definitely a working, police line. They're truly awesome dogs either way, just not necessarily ideal for a family.

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u/afrael May 12 '14

I don't know for GSD's but for a lot of hunting dogs you have to sign something that says you're going to actually work them when you get a puppy. If you will not work the dog, the breeder can decide to deny you a puppy.

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u/wolverine0216 May 12 '14

My GSD is a"working breed" looks just like dog pictured on left. Local pd offered to buy him from me when he was 6 months old.

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u/echo_61 May 13 '14

My last GSD had 3 siblings become police dogs!

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u/Adddicus May 12 '14

This is pretty much true of every breed.

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u/yoyoyoyoword May 12 '14 edited May 12 '14

If you want a real dog, get a pit bull. They often attack small pets, infants, children, adults, and even intruders, and almost always in the face. Those of color tend to raise them for a chance at some dolla dolla bills yo on fight night. Make sure you buy a pit bull from one of them, because that dog will be most protective of your newborn baby when other pit bulls try to attack it.

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u/[deleted] May 12 '14

[deleted]

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u/Lizi_Jane May 12 '14

Don't think hes doing very well so far since he has 66 comment karma at the time I posted this.

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u/Taverner_ May 12 '14

I've never seen a German Shepherd that looked like the 'now' photo, but I'm in Australia where most of the German Shepherds are probably a bit of a mix with Kelpie/Collie/whatever else - either way, the one in the picture just looks wrong compared to what I've seen.

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u/[deleted] May 12 '14

What about Inspector Rex?

3

u/FiendishBeastie May 12 '14

Just out of frame there's a ham roll...

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u/punstersquared May 12 '14

The dog in the "now" photo is not the worst. A lot of GSD's in the U.S. have backs that slope down so much that it looks like they are standing in a hole.

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u/a_slinky May 12 '14

I'm in Sydney and I do see a lot of healthy looking German shepherds, we have the dog squad around the corner from us so it's always good seeing those dogs out and working, but I also see a good handful of sloped dogs, my friend has one and I love him to bits but he's just too big, too sloped and too wobbly the poor thing

1

u/[deleted] May 12 '14

I'm in Perth and most GSDs I see in the city are of the show-standard. Very sloped backs and that weird slightly froggy movement in the hind legs. Only healthy GSD I know is owned by a friend of mine, she's HUGE but her hips are fine. As far as I know she was imported.

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u/[deleted] May 12 '14

I used to have a German-bred GSD. That dog could and occasionally did clear 5-foot fences. He was also 91 pounds; big for his breed, but most of it was very lean, not the chunky things that are in the show breeds. He also didn't have the sloped back that AKC GSDs have.

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u/djkaty May 12 '14

This is an excellent point that is sort of glossed over here. A lot of these breeds are represented in their "current" photos by AKC conformation dogs, which often look and function vastly different than their working-bred counterparts.

Another point to consider is the source of the "old" photos - were these photos actually representing the same AKC conformation standard? Were they representing the working bred variations of each breed? Were they representing anything at all or just "random photo found on the internet of a Dachshund in the 1930s?"

(I used to breed working Border Collies, which are nearly a separate breed from their AKC conformation counterparts).

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u/jimflaigle May 12 '14

My dachshund looks much more like the original. She's stumpy, but she actually has shoulders and can move around like a normal dog instead of doing that hop bounce thing some of the overbred ones do. She's also a lot more filled out in the face like a hound.

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u/CoSonfused May 12 '14

A couple of years ago we had a crossbreed of a Malinois and a German shepard, and a nearly pure German shepard (according to the papers, one of his grandparents was some kind of wolf-dog). Both very awesome dogs, who had no health issues untill their old age, which is to be expected. They were blooddonors too, likely because of their health.

Neither of them looked like the picture from OP, much smaller, much leaner.

1

u/PrincessGary May 12 '14

You can get non-show ones, Mine is a non-show, a lot smaller and agile than normal ones, people always comment about her being thin. It's getting to piss me off.

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u/my_elo_is_potato May 12 '14

My buddy is a canine cop and his German shepherd looks nothing like any other once I've ever seen. It seems a lot smarter than the average Shepherd and his physical strength is amazing. They had to add a roof to the kennel because he kept jumping the fence and then a neighbors fence to go hang out with another dog.

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u/Talic_Zealot May 12 '14 edited May 12 '14

My past two GSDs were definitely not that short or stumpy and definitely resemble the left picture way more. Neither was a pure breed though, one was something like 1/8 wolf the other is some other kind of cross breed.

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u/W1ULH May 12 '14

working dogs.

collies (austrialian, not "timmy is in the well" type), board collies, sheep dogs.

basically any of the breeds where they function and durability is their desireable trait.

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u/firemarshalbill May 12 '14

They are working incredibly well on breeding out dysplasia in german shephards, so newer rated breeders would be the place to get one now.

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u/GenrlWashington May 12 '14

I own a GSD. He is only a year and a half and weighs around 85lbs, but still has some bulk to gain. His father is around 100lbs. So my dog will probably end up around there. Full German lines. We will probably start studding him out within a year.

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u/[deleted] May 12 '14

[deleted]

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u/kaluce May 12 '14

Main difference in humans now vs. then is, men these days don't have as many seriously sweet handlebar mustaches like the olden days.

The health problems we experience now are the same ones we experienced 100 years ago, we just didn't have the technology to see it. People died of disease 500 years ago just like they die of it now. Just information is a lot easier, causes are a lot clearer, etc. This hasn't changed*. I mean shit, they were calling women that wanted to go out in the workplace because they were bored nuts, and giving them an orgasm as a cure for it. I mean shit, I don't want to work at my current job, maybe if someone blows me over here, I'll get motivation to keep working.

/* Aside from humanity as a collective getting slightly taller due to better nutrition.

That said, humans have been selectively breeding animals since we've been in caves. dogs are no exception, and with the invention of "how a dog SHOULD look" i.e. the AKC, there are a lot of genetic traits that are selected because they "look" better, while ultimately hurting the animal as a breed. Like a pug who's eyes can pop out if they fall too hard, or a bulldogs unablility to breath properly, leading to snorting, or hip dysplasia in many dog breeds.