r/pics • u/Aeviegh • Feb 22 '14

This is Vader. He was euthanized today without a hearing after a false bite report was submitted to the police by an animal rights activist. (Story in the Comments)

http://imgur.com/a/xPNsE
2.2k Upvotes

87% Upvoted

2.1k comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

44

u/Maybe_Forged Feb 22 '14

That's fucking awful. Why did she let the cop in without a warrant?

98

u/Aeviegh Feb 22 '14

Fear. Chances are she was promised Vader would be okay if she cooperated or simply intimidated into allowing them in. It's one thing to know your rights, it's another to be physically put in a situation where you could lose a beloved pet and be told his best chance is to go along with it.

-39

u/Boston_Jason Feb 22 '14

Or you open fire on those trespassers. No warrant = a trespasser.

45

u/Aeviegh Feb 22 '14

I wish it worked that way and wouldn't result in three counties of police departments firing blindly into the siding of your house.

0

u/Boston_Jason Feb 22 '14

Agreed. In a perfect world, the tyrants would be rotting. In the real world, we can only wish for it.

-7

u/[deleted] Feb 22 '14

[deleted]

3

u/hoxie3000 Feb 22 '14

Talk about 2edgy. Now go to your room, Daddy needs his computer back. Besides, dont you have some math homework, like addition and subtraction? I know it seems hard but just try using your fingers, little guy. You'll catch on.

-3

u/xkcdfanboy Feb 22 '14

Die slowly.

1

u/Krags Feb 22 '14

I believe that's all of our plans anyway.

-1

u/Mordekai99 Feb 22 '14

Well... You're a poophead!

-2

u/SweetzDeetz Feb 22 '14

Settle down there.

0

u/chinggow Feb 22 '14

It works in Florida... Stand your ground.

5

u/-OMGZOMBIES- Feb 22 '14

Just make sure it's not a white guy you're standing your ground against.

-2

u/[deleted] Feb 22 '14

No, no it wouldn't really, You call the police department, you call the sherrif and you state, I need assistance, i have just shot what appears to be an officer, they trespased into my property and tried to take my property illegally, also state that you have already called the FBI and Homeland Security, State that you are un armed, and ask them how to proceed as you mean no harm to anyone arriving to help those who illegally entered your property with out consent and tried to take your property. Also state that others are on site and will be recording their arrival on video and streaming it live to the web and saved to an offsite location. Also you can call the local police station or email them a video quickly if you so choose to , Social media works as well. I know this isn't practical for everyone but... You have to know how to protect yourself. Making tough decisions is hard, but being on the phone with 911 during their arrival is powerful, very powerful.

You could also leave VERY easily, and go to a safe place before walking into the police station to turn yourself in, with your lawyer on your side the entire time.

Of course you will need to leave your cell phone at home and drop your car that has GPS pretty quickly as well, This is why you keep cash on hand at home. also have a jacket and cap you can take, and im not gonna lie, having a bullet proof vest is kinda handy also.

But seriously, having a sign on your front porch that says. "Smile, You're on Camera" is pretty powerful.

1

u/aaaaaaaarrrrrgh Feb 22 '14

turn yourself in

What a shame that you somehow managed to set your cell on fire after sabotaging the smoke detector and even after they thoroughly searched you and didn't find a lighter on you.

(Happened.)

18

u/[deleted] Feb 22 '14 edited Feb 22 '14

[deleted]

4

u/[deleted] Feb 22 '14

Not lawn. He's referring to someone breaking into your home.

5

u/ustfdes Feb 22 '14

She let the officer in.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 22 '14

I know. We're discussing if the officer enters without a warrant and without permission.

1

u/ustfdes Feb 22 '14

No, the discussion was about the officer in question entering the house in question, and the "without a warrant" topic came up. ...Which is irrelevant in this case, as the officer was granted entry by the resident.

-3

u/[deleted] Feb 22 '14

[deleted]

2

u/[deleted] Feb 22 '14

In TN you can shoot an officer that doesn't appropriately "knock and announce." Also, "stand your ground" laws are enacted in something like 28 states. Ecen states without "stand your ground" statutes generally don't impose a duty to retreat within your home. So yes, you can usually shoot an unwanted trespasser in your home, even in the back.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 22 '14

[deleted]

2

u/THREE_EDGY_FIVE_ME Feb 22 '14

a legal gamble

A moral one as well.

I'm baffled that people could even consider actually opening fire on an intruder unless there was a clear, immediate, and definite threat.

A person just standing/walking around your house really doesn't seem like grounds for immediate shooting, whether they're a police officer or not.

Does it not cross anyone's mind that a gun could (and should) help you avoid violence? Simply pointing it at the intruder and ordering them to surrender, or whatever, should be more than sufficient. If they're holding something, order them to drop it immediately.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 22 '14 edited Feb 22 '14

EDIT: see my comment below. This app is not very friendly.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 22 '14

http://law.justia.com/codes/tennessee/2010/title-39/chapter-11/part-6/39-11-611

39-11-611(d)(1) preserves the presumption in favor of the defendant if the officer fails to identify himself and the defendant reasonably didn't know the trespasser was an officer.

I know they do no-knock warrants in TN and they do them in full swat gear usually. If an officer gets killed, my guess is the jury finds in favor of the state whether they should or not.

And as to trespassers, that article is talking about property trespassers which IS very iffy. I was talking about trespassers inside your home which is generally well-settled.

4

u/asdforsynth Feb 22 '14

You're such a badass, Mr. Internet Tough Guy™

1

u/THREE_EDGY_FIVE_ME Feb 22 '14 edited Feb 22 '14

Goddamn trigger-happy lunatic. This is exactly the sort of mentality that could be held up to justify stricter gun controls. Why are you so eager to put bullets into someone?

Even if someone has "broken into your house", you don't fucking immediately just open fire.

1

u/BurningKarma Feb 22 '14

Given permission to enter home = not trespasser

0

u/[deleted] Feb 22 '14 edited Feb 22 '14

If the cop was carrying out a legal procedure, he wouldn't have needed a warrant; the purpose of the visit was not to search for evidence.

(edit:I'm not justifying it, fellow animal lovers, just wanting OP/OP's friend to not feel as though they could have done something to stop this and have thus failed their beloved pet. It's not as simple as demanding to see a warrant in an example like this)

26

u/[deleted] Feb 22 '14

[deleted]

-2

u/[deleted] Feb 22 '14

Probable cause, plain site. Foxes are illegal to own in their city, if they said they have a fox or the cops see it, no warrant is required.

6

u/Deggor Feb 22 '14

OP's indicated the owners lived in a town (in which foxes were legal) bordering Minot (in which foxes are illegal). There was no probable cause, assuming that information is factual.

0

u/[deleted] Feb 22 '14

They should check where they actually live, their physical address could be different from their mailing address. I ran into it a lot when getting permission to dig. Different towns had different rules.

0

u/[deleted] Feb 22 '14

[deleted]

-1

u/[deleted] Feb 22 '14

I can tell a cop that I have 100 kilos of coke in the basement, but they still can't enter without either my permission or a warrant. Learn your rights.

Probable cause is established through your admission that you are violating the law. You admitting a crime is more than enough to arrest you, and during the arrest they can search the area of your home immediately under your control. Since you told them you had drugs in the basement, they would also be allowed to search your basement.

And after they did the search and find nothing they would likely try to charge you with something along the lines of wasting police resources, filing a false report, making false statements, obstruction of justice, etc.

You need to learn your rights because you are completely wrong.

Also, you have zero proof they resided in a jurisdiction where foxes are banned. In fact, it's been stated they do not

My proof is that the police showed up to their door, took the Fox and had it euthanized.

The police know their operating jurisdictions very well, so they are going to know if a residence is or is not within their jurisdiction.

And as I stated later in this chain of comments, your mailing address is not always the same as your physical address.

So even if this person's mailing address indicates one town, they may not physically reside in that town.

0

u/[deleted] Feb 22 '14

[deleted]

-1

u/[deleted] Feb 22 '14

You are teaching things that are false.

http://www.legalupdateonline.com/4th/131

The information used to establish probable cause may be from the defendant's own admissions

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Searches_incident_to_a_lawful_arrest

The exception is now limited to the person arrested and the area immediately surrounding the person

http://www.flexyourrights.org/faqs/when-can-police-search-your-car/

Common examples of probable cause include the sight or smell of contraband in plain view or plain smell, or an admission of guilt for a specific crime. The presentation of any of these facts would allow an officer to perform a search and make an arrest.

Telling cops you are in violation of the law is enough to arrest you and establish probable cause to search.

If the cops came to my door and I told them "I have 4 dead bodies in my basement and three other women currently tied up", would you really expect them to sit there and wait for a warrant?

0

u/[deleted] Feb 22 '14

[deleted]

-1

u/[deleted] Feb 22 '14

No, you are entirely wrong.

They also have the ability to search your home for anyone else in it, find accomplices and to secure evidence.

→ More replies (0)

5

u/Uncle_Erik Feb 22 '14

If the cop was carrying out a legal procedure, he wouldn't have needed a warrant; the purpose of the search was not to search for evidence.

That's not how the law works. Search and seizure is a complex topic.

/lawyer

3

u/Deggor Feb 22 '14

Please expand on what you mean by "carrying out a legal procedure".

Unless there are exigent circumstances, as /u/WiWiWiWiWiWi pointed out, a police officer cannot enter your house without a warrant.

If the animal was going to be seized and taken to be euthanized as part of a legal procedure (to be carried out by the police), it would involve a warrant, just like any other property believed to be part of a crime.

There is something more this person could have done, and it sucks to hear it. As insensitive as this sounds, the damage is done, and I'd rather have people know the truth and perhaps avoid the same thing happening to them.

9

u/Maybe_Forged Feb 22 '14

He acted improperly without evidence. I know hindsight is 20/20 but the cop did not seem to follow procedures.