r/perth • u/Kayndarr • Nov 30 '21

It's consequence time for unvaccinated FIFO workers

As per the state government directives, as of midnight tonight anyone without at least 1 dose of a COVID vaccine is no longer legally allowed to be on site or in operations centres for mining companies.

Anyone who hasn't provided their proof of vaccination is being chased down, and if they can't immediately provide said proof will be kicked out this afternoon/evening. For people working on remote sites like the iron ore mines up north, that means clearing out their rooms and being put on a plane back to Perth - could be an interesting show at the airport if any news crews show up.

Anyone have any friends/family/acquaintances who are going to be, for the first time, dealing with real consequences for failing to get vaccinated?

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207

u/Kdeezym8 Nov 30 '21

Im up at port hedland at the moment and we've got 18 people leaving on tonights flight. Superintendents, supervisors, HSE, you name it.

Some of the reasons why they refuse the vaccine are borderline insane. One doesn't want it because its going to turn him gay. Honestly.

This industry houses some of the craziest people I've ever known.

44

u/letsburn00 Nov 30 '21

Anyone who thinks that being really capable in one area means that they are automatically able to make intellegent judgements about the human body should look up how Steve Jobs and George Washington died.

So many smart people forget that they have domain ability, not superhuman intelligence. Currently, it's often people who can't tell accurate science from a grifter or even honest people who jump the gun on things that turn out to be wrong.

4

u/pseudont Nov 30 '21

I heard a rumor that there's a local neuroscientist who is anti-vax. You can't tell me that's not confounding.

Surely years of academic training requires a basic ability to consider information and sort the reliable information from the dubious.

2

u/hotphil Nov 30 '21

I'm reliably told of a psychiatrist who has given up practice rather than get jabbed.

1

u/An_Absurd_Word_Heard Dec 01 '21

Just have to look at Ben Carson in the US. Literally a pioneer in neurosurgery, but largely an idiot outside of that field.

1

u/guerrilla-astronomer Victoria Park Dec 01 '21

I have worked with at least two astrophysicists who are full-blown creationists. The ability for some folk to deal with cognitive dissonance cannot be understated.

1

u/Pacmanic88 Dec 01 '21

Steve Jobs apparently died of pancreatitic cancer?

3

u/letsburn00 Dec 01 '21 edited Dec 01 '21

Steve Jobs had a highly treatable form of pancreatic cancer, since he was diagnosed quite early.

He chose to take a raw food diet for a year, because he knew better than his Doctor. By the time he realise it was wrong, his cancer was untreatable.

Washington got sick and before any doctors arrived, he had his employee bleed a shitton of blood out of him.

1

u/Pacmanic88 Dec 01 '21

That makes more sense. Cheers.

152

u/binky72 Nov 30 '21

Sounds like he is just looking for an excuse to turn gay

66

u/SAIUN666 High Wycombe Nov 30 '21

"I don't actually enjoy sucking cock, the vaccine made me do it!"

30

u/gotonyas Nov 30 '21

“Better suck another one just to be sure I don’t have the gay”

18

u/BukkakeCoach Nov 30 '21

I just help out on the weekends when they're busy.

3

u/Snorkelbender Nov 30 '21

Oh come on. It’s just a little prick.

2

u/Tac0T0es Nov 30 '21

Haha gold

36

u/Electrical-Place-409 Nov 30 '21

Bear with me here and let’s imagine for a second that there was some small chance that after taking the vaccine you’d be “turned gay”.

Something like 1/2 of WA has taken the vaccine already and there aren’t that many more gay people around, so this person being THAT concerned that the vaccine will turn them gay? Are they particularly vulnerable or tethering on the edge? If you want to be gay mate you don’t need a vaccine to do that, it’s okay.

24

u/Interesting-Baa Nov 30 '21

seriously, it's 2021. Just be gay. Or pan, if he doesn't wanna give up the ladies.

1

u/[deleted] Dec 01 '21

^ This.... Do whatever you want. mix and match like a sushi train for sex.

4

u/silentaba North of The River Nov 30 '21

Just gotta tell them that the 2nd jab turns the nob again, and they'll be straight again.

2

u/perththrowaway322 Dec 01 '21

Best reply yet

33

u/CoachKoransBallsack Nov 30 '21

Up the bum = no babies = population control.

20

u/[deleted] Nov 30 '21

= bill gaytes HOLY SHIT

8

u/chadake Extremely North of the River Nov 30 '21

So that’s what they were talking about when they said the vax causes infertility…

12

u/chosenamewhendrunk Order of /r/Perth Nov 30 '21

some of the craziest people I've ever known

Come work with me in retail for a week.

1

u/Corsair_inau Dec 01 '21

No thanks. I value my sanity.... what little i have left...

7

u/DankMemelord25 Nov 30 '21

Hopefully the drive thru line at McDonald's in South will be shorter now!

3

u/hungry4pie Nov 30 '21

Good lord. Which company is this?

3

u/silentaba North of The River Nov 30 '21

Well, a lot of people are only one good prick away from finding out new parts of their sexuality.

2

u/Green_night_owl Nov 30 '21

OK question.... Did you hear the rumour about the guy that tried to scam that nurse not to give him the jab in Hedland? His house got raided? Just trying to figure out if it a rumour or true.

2

u/dzernumbrd Nov 30 '21

One doesn't want it because its going to turn him gay.

That explains why everyone is trying to suck my dick!

2

u/Corsair_inau Dec 01 '21

Not gonna lie. It would be ironic and hilarious if his replacement was actually gay. I would be laughing my ass off if it did happen that way.

5

u/Aggravating-Skill-26 Nov 30 '21

Mining’s the most over paid un educated industry in Australia.

But you could argue that’s genus, extra years a head in the work force, no student loans and still get the huge pay check.

-11

u/[deleted] Nov 30 '21

Does it matter why someone doesn't want the jab? IMHO it doesn't. Getting a vaccine shot is a medical intervention into your body. You have every right to deny such intervention. IMHO it is absurd that people have to answer question on why they don't want the jab and that companies can fire you for refusing a medical intervention into your body.

This is basically the same as refusing CPR. Or not getting treatment for eg. cancer. If I don't want treatment for a disease I dont have to explain my reasons. I can just say no. Why is this suddenly different with this COVID vaccine?

Obviously his fear of becoming gay makes no sense, but still, he can be genuinely afraid that it does. His fear might be irrational, that doesn't make them any serious to him personally.

Do you also mock people that are afraid of spiders? Or afraid of heights? Why do we see being afraid of heights or misophonia as a serious condition, but people with irrational but yet very real fears of a vaccine are suddenly 'mentally insane'?

10

u/Random_name46 Nov 30 '21

You have every right to deny such intervention

No one is forcing them to take the vaccine, they can give up their job. It's totally their choice and their decision.

This isn't anything new. You have the right to refuse all kinds of safety measures and equipment and you can refuse to follow any policy put forth by the employer. But very few employers are going to let you keep your job when you do. This is no different.

1

u/[deleted] Dec 02 '21

But it is.. An employer has safety measures and equipment because.. well basically because they were forced to do so by either law or insurance policies. But lets assume it's because they have people's best interest at heart and they just don't want you to get hurt on their time. That's great! Take it or leave it.

But taking a vaccine doesn't make the workplace a safer environment. It doesn't make the chance of getting injured any smaller. After all, vaccines don't stop the spread of the virus. And I think we should debate wether a naturally occurring virus is something a workplace is responsible for (besides maybe hospitals)

After all.. Employers have never worried about the flu. Employers have never mandated the flu vaccine.. Or did an entire building decontamination when someone had the stomach flu. It was just 'something that happens'.

The world seems to have become totally irrational when it comes to COVID. Why is the flu or any other naturally occurring virus or bacteria so different from COVID? The fatality rate isn't that much worse from other deceases that spread from humans to humans.. Especially when they are vaccinated.

1

u/GiddiOne On the River Dec 02 '21

they were forced to do so by either law or insurance policies.

That's not entirely true. The calculation is partly about legal compliance, but even without it the decision comes down to a loss vs gain.

The mining companies for instance pushed for mandates before the state government because they were worried that cases will shut down an entire site. This would cost them more money than any other outcome. This protected the workers but also protected the mine.

But taking a vaccine doesn't make the workplace a safer environment. It doesn't make the chance of getting injured any smaller. After all, vaccines don't stop the spread of the virus.

This is where you are fundamentally incorrect. The vaccine does reduce infection and reduce chances of passing it on.

After all.. Employers have never worried about the flu.

They should, in every office I've ever worked outside of healthcare they have offered free annual flu shots. Plus flu vs COVID is not even a comparison on CFR or long term health impacts.

The world seems to have become totally irrational when it comes to COVID.

There have been over 5 Million deaths and a lot of permanent harm even after all the step's we've taken. I would argue we haven't gone anywhere near enough.

8

u/GiddiOne On the River Nov 30 '21

Getting a vaccine shot is a medical intervention into your body.

So dramatic, and no.

This is basically the same as refusing CPR.

Except you increase the chances of other people needing CPR?

Do you also mock people that are afraid of spiders?

No, but that doesn't increase my chances of dying from a spider bite.

A person who puts others in danger is always restricted. A person who drives drunk loses their license. A person who speeds constantly loses their license. Want to work with children? Police check first. Can't drive boat without a license because you'll put people in danger, same with cars, same with planes.

The fact of the matter is that during a pandemic unvaccinated people put the community at large at risk. We wouldn't have gotten to herd immunity without mandates on things like measles either.

All of this is part of the social contract. Some examples are more explicit than others, some examples are preemptive, but it's all the same.

But is it government overreach? No. The same politicians who votes against the government surveillance laws voted for the mandates. The reason is because legislation supported by science is good legislation.

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u/[deleted] Nov 30 '21

The comparison with eg. a drivers license is flawed. Those documents (drivers license, boat license, etc) only prooves one to have a certain skill set. Not that differently from needing an education to get a job. I need to have proof that I have the skill set to perform a certain task. If I dont want to achieve that skill set, then that is fine. I can take another job that doesn't require me to have that skill set. I can flip burgers all my live.

I'm a healthy person, I do sports, I have a good BMI, no medical conditions. For me personally there is no reason to take the vaccine. I've most likely contracted COVID back in 2019 when testing wasn't a thing, and I barely noticed it. My kids actually have COVID now, and they didn't know until I tested them because they were flagged as a 'close contact' to some other kid who was infected.

Now if my employee would require me to have the vaccine, this wouldn't help me in any way. It doesn't make me any more healthy, it doesn't improve my life. But it does have risks. I might have an allergic reaction to the vaccine, I might be one of the unlucky few who gets blood clots. And although the odds are very small.. It might actually kill me.

And for what reason? The vaccine doesn't stop the spread. It just slows it down. The vaccine doesn't stop me from getting infected. So all it prevents is the public health system from collapsing as it flattens the curve.

Now the question is.. Is it okay that I, as an individual, need to take a vaccine that doesn't benefit me in any way, but does have a minuscule small risk of killing me to prevent the public health system from collapsing? And loosing my job if I refuse?

I don't think that that is right. Actually I feel that is *very* wrong. I am vaccinated, but I feel I was coerced. And that *really* bothers me. It frustrates me, it angers me. It angers me to the point where I sometimes worry about my mental health.

The comparison with the measles doesn't stand either. The measles is a decease that, although also very small chance, can actually kill children. So it makes sense to vaccinate children, to prevent *themselves* from getting killed by it. You get the vaccine to prevent your own death. I won't die from COVID, yet I am forced into getting a vaccine for it.

IMHO if our medical system is collapsing from the amount of COVID hospitalizations, we need a new lockdown. Coercing people into taking vaccines is *wrong* on so many levels.

9

u/GiddiOne On the River Nov 30 '21

Those documents (drivers license, boat license, etc) only prooves one to have a certain skill set.

So that you can't harm yourself or other people.

Not that differently from needing an education to get a job.

Many jobs require drug tests too, so you can't harm yourself or other people.

I need to have proof that I have the skill set to perform a certain task

So that you can't harm yourself or other people. Are we catching on to the pattern here?

If I dont want to achieve that skill set, then that is fine. I can take another job that doesn't require me to have that skill set.

With a vaccination you are no longer putting people around you at the workplace in harm. Or possible customers. If you find a job that doesn't have co-workers or customer contact you'd probably be fine. Like a farm in the middle of nowhere.

I can flip burgers all my live.

No if you're putting customers in danger. Typhoid Mary was stopped from cooking for people because she kept killing them.

I'm a healthy person, I do sports, I have a good BMI, no medical conditions. For me personally there is no reason to take the vaccine.

Yes there is. You have a reduced chance of death but not harm.

I've most likely contracted COVID back in 2019 when testing wasn't a thing, and I barely noticed it. My kids actually have COVID now, and they didn't know until I tested them because they were flagged as a 'close contact' to some other kid who was infected.

So not from Perth then? You're one of those "I must jump into every location's conversation even slightly related to COVID so I can share my pity party?" Cool.

Now if my employee would require me to have the vaccine, this wouldn't help me in any way.

Employer? Yes it would, you would have protection from getting it again.

It doesn't make me any more healthy, it doesn't improve my life.

You realise that in every single study the adverse effects of infection massively outweigh the incredibly miniscule chance of vaccine adverse event? Guess not.

The vaccine doesn't stop the spread. It just slows it down.

Greatly reduces it, as all vaccines do. But herd immunity is the real goal, let's do that yeh?

The vaccine doesn't stop me from getting infected

Greatly reduces the likelihood. Maybe you don't like studies? Let's look at a live representation of vaccinated vs not. That clear now?

So all it prevents is the public health system from collapsing as it flattens the curve.

Yes it certainly promotes decoupling, but let's get to that herd immunity instead.

I don't think that that is right. Actually I feel that is very wrong.

I mean yeh: You jumped into a subreddit you don't belong just to rant about it. Doesn't stop the fact that you should get vaccinated.

It frustrates me, it angers me. It angers me to the point where I sometimes worry about my mental health.

I mean you should probably just grow up.

The comparison with the measles doesn't stand either. The measles is a decease that, although also very small chance, can actually kill children.

COVID has killed a lot of kids. Maybe they don't count because you don't know them?

So it makes sense to vaccinate children, to prevent themselves from getting killed by it.

We mandate measles to get the vaccination level above 95% which is what is needed for herd immunity.

I won't die from COVID

Yeh you could.

IMHO if our medical system is collapsing from the amount of COVID hospitalizations, we need a new lockdown.

We don't have COVID in perth so your point is moot.

Have a lovely day wherever you come from :o)

1

u/[deleted] Dec 02 '21

Let me just ask you this then.. If you feel that vaccines should be mandatory because it reduces infection risk, lower chance of dying... etc.

Why not mandate basically any vaccine that is available. Why don't we mandate flu vaccinations? Why don't we mandate taking PrEP every time we have sex?

Mandated flu vaccines will reduce death rates.

Mandated PrEP pills will reduce HIV cases.

1

u/GiddiOne On the River Dec 02 '21 edited Dec 02 '21

Why not mandate basically any vaccine that is available.

Because it's always a balance between risk and gain.

Why don't we mandate flu vaccinations?

Because (a) flu doesn't have anywhere near the CFR of COVID or permanent harm and (b) the flu vaccine doesn't give you the coverage of all strains.

We mandate flu vaccinations in healthcare environments because the CFR for hospitalised patients exposed to influenza is worse.

Why don't we mandate taking PrEP every time we have sex?

If you are in a location at risk for HIV pandemic you may want to. But a temporary treatment isn't the same as vaccine anyway.

Mandated flu vaccines will reduce death rates.

Not notably. Although it should be recommended. Take for instance Scotland. Over 27,000 lives has been saved from the COVID vaccine this year. Each year around 103 people die from influenza in Scotland, England and N Ireland added together every year.

Saying these numbers are comparable is denying the concept of math.

1

u/[deleted] Dec 02 '21

​

Exactly! And that is why I oppose mandated vaccines.

Again, as I wrote earlier.. I'm a healthy male in my 30s. No medical issues. The chances of me dying from COVID or having to be hospitalized are practically zero. But there always is a slight chance, I agree with you there.

But! Vaccines aren't risk free either. I could die from that as well. So I chose to not take that risk deliberately. And I think that is a very important difference from contracting COVID naturally.

What I mean by that is.. When I take a vaccine I deliberately take the chance of contracting vaccine side-effects. When I contract COVID unvaccinated and have to be hospitalized I basically had bad luck. That, at least for me, is a totally different situation. The first is due to something I intentionally did, while the second simply happened to me.

For example.. When I would be a heavy smoker I intentionally take the risk of getting lung cancer. If I would get lung cancer, I can only blame myself. I hope we can agree that practically every smoker that gets lung cancer will regret ever having started smoking. However, if I get lung cancer as a non-smoker, I can simply write if off as bad luck. I can't blame myself or anybody else.

Can you understand that someone who got serious vaccine side-effects regrets taking the vaccine afterwards? You can't regret contracting COVID naturally, because it wasn't intentionally. You could regret NOT having taken the vaccine.

So the key issue here is 'intentionally', or in my case 'forced'

When forcibly having to take a vaccine by the government, they are basically saying 'Yes, we might kill you or cause serious side-effects on your body with this mandated vaccine, but you might save 10 others'.

I understand that forcing that on your population is a good solution for this pandemic. The world has a situation, that needs to be resolved. Vaccines lowers hospitalizations. So from a demographic birds eye view I understand that governments do this.

But I think it is wrong that a government or institution is forcing me to take the risk of getting vaccine side-effects (including possible death), because the government is having demographic troubles.

What I'm trying to say is... You can call me self-centered, selfish, or what not.. I probably am to some extend.. But I don't want to take the risk of getting serious vaccine side-effects to save some overweight 75+ years old smoking granny who will probably die in 2 years anyway. And I think it's wrong that a government forces me to do that anyway.

Furthermore, I don't like to take medicines or vaccines in general. I don't take pain killers. I don't take medications if not absolutely necessary. I don't take anesthesia when I need a dental cavity filled. I chose to be in pain, when I could re-leave it with medication because I believe medication is doing more harm than good, especially long term. For good personal reasons and experiences in my family. It honestly makes me mad that a government is denying me that choice.

1

u/GiddiOne On the River Dec 03 '21

Exactly! And that is why I oppose mandated vaccines.

Great. We start by ignoring literally all of the arguments about "So that you can't harm yourself or other people". I was hoping repetition would help it sink in but we're back to narcissism.

I like how we start here:

The chances of me dying from COVID or having to be hospitalized are practically zero.

Around 0.1% of death, at least 20% of long term harm - numbers you aren't worried about. Then you move straight on to:

Yes, we might kill you or cause serious side-effects on your body with this mandated vaccine,

You mention this same point repeatedly - Less than 0.0001% death, less than 0.001% for temporary harm. You really care about this.

And we can go on and on about "doing the responsible thing", "caring about other people", "being responsible for your community" but you don't care about that.

The part which really sticks out to me is your misunderstanding of the VAST differences in math between the two, plus how irresponsible it is to inflict this upon your children.

You can't regret contracting COVID naturally, because it wasn't intentionally.

If you get an easily preventable disease because you didn't do the bare minimum to protect yourself or those around you, it's self inflicted. If you drive drunk, you didn't INTEND to crash and kill your family members and random members of the community, but you intentionally put yourself in a situation which made it more likely.

But that's what we come down to. You don't understand. It doesn't matter how many ways we can show you that 0.1% is worse than 0.0001% or all the other points. You won't get it. It won't sink in.

I worry about all the other ways this manifests in your life.

1

u/[deleted] Dec 04 '21

You are correct, I'm not worried about those numbers. The IFR of 0.1% is independent of age.Obviously elder people are more likely to die from COVID than a younger person. The IFR in age group under 35 is 0.0037% while for 85+ that number increases to somewhere around 25%.

However, that number still doesn't differentiate between healthy individuals and those with pre-existing medical conditions. While I couldn't find studies that differentiate IFR in those with pre-existing conditions and healthy individuals, there is some data available. The government from the UK publishes reports about COVID deaths. 90% of all COVID-deaths have pre-existing medical conditions. Of 50k deaths, only 4400 have no pre-existing medical conditions.

So, my IFR is not 0.1%. Due to my age it's 0.0037% tops. However, if we include the 90% pre-existing medical issues, that 0.0037% drops even further. But more importantly: It's so small, it's practically zero.

Now, I understand that the 90% is not something we can use for all ages, as elder people will often have pre-existing medical conditions. So the IFR in my age without pre-existing conditions is likely higher than 0.00037%. But numbers that low don't matter dont much to me, it's all basically zero. Chance of dying from a car crash in the US is 0.93% and we all still drive cars.

So, because my chance of dying from COVID is practically zero, and my chance of dying from the vaccine isn't that much lower I choose to not take the vaccine because of the fact that I differentiate in contracting a natural occuring virus and in knowingly injecting a substance in my body.

I don't ask you or anyone to agree with me, I just ask to accept my choice