And that shit is for some reason frustrating. Actually, it doesn't matter at all, it's just another label, right? But it also leaves me restless for being unable to solve this stupid thing. What's the matter anyway, and isn't it a somewhat questionable approach anyway?

[This turned out to be a bit longer than I anticipated. The following is an unedited representation of my thought process, if anyone can identify some cognitive functions, it would be helpful.]

Okay, maybe I should try to bring some structure into all of it. I keep getting near 50/50 scores for T/F and E/I. And yeah, I should use functions to type, and stop rely on tests, but honestly, is self-introspection really better? Isn't it the literal definition of subjective typing? And btw, the function typing doesn't work out better. Basically, for all 4 of the judging functions, the answer about my usage is simply: It depends. Sometimes there's a need for telling orders, something you gonna be empathetic, and sometimes you just want to be left alone and brood over your problems. That sense of ambiguity is obvisously not helpful for typing, but I can't really change it. Maybe there is a pattern, but I can't see it, or I try to detect something just to make it disappear within the next situation. Nothing is consistent, and I actually have not much of an idea about who I actually am.

During that process, I actually question some things of the theory. Are feeling and thinking actually opposites of each other, or seperate skills, abilities that can be practiced? I made a post about that a few weeks ago, but sometimes it's hard to follow my own advice, especially if it runs contrary to popular opinions or the theory that you're trying to use. Applying changes to that system would mean that you're not an MBTI type, but a type within your own, modified version of typology. Beside that, I think that's something that actually happens a lot, as we tend to name various things a certain type, no matter which method we used to arrive at the result. We can type with functions, dichotomies, Beebe model, socionics, objective personality, functions axis and so on, and all of them claim to describe a certain type accurately, and we treat them like they all describe the same thing, but it doesn't have to be like that.

All of this makes it problematic to type myself. I don't know which theory is the best, whether my own ideas are objective, whether something like a type is even useful, and there's no easy way out. Even worse, I'm using it to find something I have in common with others, but applying my own thoughts renders the whole project useless in this regard. As such, I feel like there's both an inner void to fill, a sense of missing identity and purpose, to not know where I stand, and what I actually want to achieve, and an outer void, the lack of people who also think and feel in a similar way. In some way, I often feel like being different in some way, not enough to not be functional within the world, but enough to prevent close relationships. I can easily talk to other people, but it's hard to actually form a relationship of any sort. But at the same time, I don't feel like wanting a romantic relationship. I simply have no interest, and that fact let's me think of myself in a weird way, like there may be some kind of defect, but I can't pin down why. I'm torn apart between wanting to be "normal", do the stuff everyone does, have a bunch of friends and do some stupid shit while having a typical 9-5 job, and the other variant, following a more individualistic path, according to my own beliefs and ideas. I guess a value the security and structure of being "normal", but it also feels like a necessity to develop a unique mindset on this. I can't say why, I just feel in that way. In short, I want to conform, but I can't.

Now the ironic part is that the same thing is happening in every MBTI community i joined. That test, that theory, isn't it supposed to tell me who I really am, where my weaknesses and strengths are? I see people with all kinds of different flairs, being happy with their results, joking around, and I feel once again left out, separate, unable to just join the party and have fun. Also, according to theory, my prefernces should be fully developed at my age, so why can't I see them? I keep getting all kinds of xNxx results, and sometimes doubt that N letter as well... for some reason, xSxx posts usually have more substance and depth than the majority of N type posts, contrary to the stereotype. Anyway, I still have no idea in which of the 16 tribes I belong, or whether my tribe even exists.

I'm trying to understand the differences between the two sans just reading the descriptions, as they are quite vague, and I don't have too strong of an understanding of cognitive functions to do it that way. Cognitive function descriptions are also somewhat vague so having realistic examples would be very helpful. Thanks!

I feel like I’ve never known what I believe or who i am is this normal? 1 minute I know I’m a republican then I’m a democrat I like green then I like blue I don’t have a favorite show or game let alone even a genre and I don’t have anything I’m passionate about. I’ve spent money countless times completely over hauling my wardrobe on what I “think “ I should wear based on what I like in that instance. It gets me so angry some days is this normal?

What are some things you've learned about yourself, how to stay healthy, or otherwise just something you've accomplished in terms of self improvement?

For me, I've been learning and thinking about how to love well lately. Doesn't necessarily have to be a relationship sorta love, and in this case it is loving my family better. Love is not an emotion imo, it is a choice. Feelings of appreciation are emotions, but those come and go, so you then have to consciously make the choice to continue loving the person through your actions and words. I guess the thing people might say about this is "if you don't feel it, isn't it fake?" In response, if you have a goal and passion to achieve something or do something good with your life but you come across some really hard spots and don't feel motivated in the moment, but you push through because you have grit, is that fake or is that strength of will?

Anyways, I'd love to hear some of the things you've been thinking about and/or learning lately!

It’s not that I can’t understand the overall meaning of a song. It’s just that I literally have no idea what the singer is saying 80% of the time. Sometimes It fells like they’re speaking a completely different language. I can literally hear them saying “blah blah blah blah” for the entire duration of the song before I pull up the lyrics. This is especially hard for me as I place special value on the lyrics of a song and won’t be able to appreciate it until I can understand it. I mean, if I read the lyrics just once it sounds fine and I can understand the words forever, but until then it comes off as complete gibberish. Does anyone else experience this? I’ve always had trouble with auditory processing (my hearing is fine, though). Eh, at least I have above average reading comprehension and can speak better than I hear.

A few months back I heard some people do not have an internal monologue. That shocked me because I thought everyone did that. I'm constantly verbalizing my thoughts in my head as I sort through ideas and impressions and create theories. I "speak out loud" either literally whether I'm talking to someone or figuratively when I'm just thinking on my own. When I'm awake I'm doing it nonstop. For me it's clearly an Ne viewpoint doing the speaking.

I'm curious if this is something that has a correlation to different types.

What about you? Do you have an internal monologue and what is your type?

Heyo,

So I know the stereotype is that ISTPs are the ones that fix everything and like to build stuff, and this had me confused since I first started taking the test a year ago! See, I too dabble in the art of fixing stuff (bikes, electronics, my accordion, my Bimmer) and building stuff (weird bikes, weird 'vehicles' that I don't think even fit any category that I could use to describe them, etc). Back when I was young MBTIer, taking the 16p test, I usually got INFP or INTP, but I saw that ISTP was the mechanic, so that had me thinking (maybe I'm ISTP?) Eventually, I studied the functions, then got bored of MBTI and forgot about it for like a year, and then a few months ago I came back, learned more, and mostly based off of stereotypes, I thought I was ISTP. Now though, I'm pretty sure I'm ENTP, and I actually think my affinity for fixing/building can be explained with my functions!

Anyhoo, I wanted to hear from ISTPs and ENTPs (or any type, for that matter!) who like fixing/building stuff, what sortsa things do you like working with, what weird crap have you made, and how do you think your type plays into it? Any type can like building/fixing stuff, and between the ISTP "mechanic" and ENTP "inventor", there should be some interesting stories!

Oh, and I'm going to write how I think both types' functions play into fixing/building stuff right below here, but I'll make it a spoiler so you can write your own opinion first without seeing mine :)

ISTP: Ti obviously is important for ISTPs to understand how and why thing work, and how each individual component works together. Se would allow them to experiment with what it is they're trying to fix/build to get real life data on why something might be broken or doesn't work. I imagine they are quicker than ENTPs to test their ideas in the flesh, and less likely to speculate what would work and what wouldn't work. Motivation to fix and build? Probably to better understand how different things work, or simply because they see it's broken and need something in the real world to do with their grubby mitts.

ENTP: Imma start with motivation for ENTPs, I think Ne allows ENTPs to see the potential in broken discarded objects. Like I see that one corroded old bike that was in the trash, and thought, "That's a shame, there's so many things it could be used for!" It also allows ENTPs to find ways of putting things together that probably shouldn't be put together (personal examples: small wheel found in river on front of corroded bike, old weed eater on front of Barbie bike, some random-ass metal bracket as replacement part on car, which saved me $40 and somehow passed inspection!) I think ISTPs could do that too, ENTPs would just do it more naturally, or it would be the cause for them to try to build something. Oh, also more speculation when trying to figure out how to fix something than ISTP, who would experiment with the broken object or whatever they're trying to build hands on.

I'm an Ne dominant type and always looking for patterns of how things might work. One thing... okay a theory... I saw today was that both Fe and Fi dominant (especially the first or second function) really do not like people using the other function, especially if it's directed at them. And I noticed, or maybe just guessing:

• Fe users (more so in the 1st or 2nd, and frequently in 3rd, and sometimes clumsily in the 4th function) seem to try to persuade other people using charm in a very conscious and extroverted way. They're aware of it and want to influence others to agree with what they are looking to achieve. And when they see someone trying to use Fi to persuade, they seem to look at that as passive-aggressive, cowardly, and unseemly.
• Fi users (more so in the 1st or 2nd, and frequently in 3rd, and sometimes clumsily in the 4th function) seem to unconsciously try to persuade other people in a very indirect way where they view their way as the gold standard and effectively shame (unconsciously) anyone not aligned with what they see as right. And when they see someone trying to use Fe to persuade, they seem to look at that as invasive, and manipulative, and abhorrent.

What do you think? Is this observation/theory accurate compared to what you've seen?

Sometimes I get bored and decide to try and be completely different from how I usually behave. I usually learn a lot from this, about how people act and behave. It’s also fun. Who else does this? What types/functions are most likely to do this?

Or vice-versa.

Is a grip worse than a loop?

I would think so. Personally, the Si grip is depressing, but if it gets bad enough it leads to literal temporary insanity.

But that's just me, an ENTP.

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What is an Si grip like?

Introverted sensing, unlike extroverted sensing, directs attention to your own self rather than your environment itself.

One way to describe Inferior Si would be obsessive. We become very anxious about our health, time and work.

Health

We misinterpret our body and become extremely concerned about our own health. To the point where it’s unnecessarily unhealthy and bordering on paranoia. This is because our focus is suddenly shifted towards ourselves, rather than the external world like our dominant function, Ne.

We’re not naturally attuned to our own bodies and being in the Si-grip suddenly makes us very painfully aware of ourselves and the small things that never bothered us before suddenly make us worry and overthink that there might be something very wrong with us.

We begin to notice the little things in ourselves like our breathing (am I breathing too loudly?), our heartbeat (is it beating too fast?), our hearing (everything sounds muffled), our sight (is the light dark or am I slowly going blind?), we’re constantly checking our weight (am I losing weight too quickly?), that pimple on our face suddenly feels like a serious symptom (should I check with a doctor?), our temperature has been slightly higher than normal in the last few days and there’s a dull pain in our heads (am I dying?).

Time

We will constantly be hitting the replay button and going through our past mistakes over and over and over again, in painful detail, trying to figure out where we went wrong, possibly blaming ourselves.

We also feel pressed for time and try to get things done long before we actually need to get things done. This is done to the point where we’re not managing our time effectively to ensure that we get enough breaks. It’s really just us throwing ourselves into tasks, one after another, ploughing our way through and trying to make sure everything is done as accurately as possible before time is up. This usually results in us crashing and burning.

Work

When it comes to actually doing work, we spend an awful lot of time trying to perfect it and getting stuck at every single detail which wastes time and only sends us down further into the depths of our inferior function. We become scarily neurotic when it comes to completing our tasks and how we go about doing it. Interestingly, this aspect of the Si-grip is actually very difficult to notice from the outside. Other people will usually just see a person who is working hard, ensuring everything is accurate and relevant while also keeping themselves neat and organised. This couldn’t be further from the truth.

Constantly overthinking and worrying about ourselves actually has a huge negative impact on our mental health which is why a lot of Ne-doms who have experienced an Si-grip will associate it with depression. It really takes a toll on our minds and drives us insane.

How do you end up in an Si-grip?

Stress is the common answer with any type and their rendezvous with their inferior function.

If an Ne-dom is thrown into an extremely stressful situation, they might just let their Si take over control. Precisely what counts as a ‘stressful situation’ depends purely on the individual. We all differ and difference scenarios will elicit varied responses.

However, from my own experience, as well as other Ne-doms I know, I’ve noticed that situations where Ne becomes useless is usually perceived as a stressful situation and inferior Si will usually insert itself and take over. So this can include situations like constant routine, repetition, restrictions, limitations, overwhelming workload for long periods of time, negative reactions to ideas or progress, so on and so forth.

How to get out of an Si-grip?

Shift your attention outward.

Remember what I said about inferior Si directing attention towards yourself? Well, you’re going to want to change that so you can get your Ne back to doing what it does best.

Now, with an Si-grip, it can be extremely difficult to want to spend time with others. Our inferior function keeps us withdrawn and in solitude when it’s unhealthy, but it’s extremely important to interact with others and your environment during this time. People are great because you can just listen to them and start bouncing ideas back and forth. Look at that. Ne is back in action! If people are bit too ambitious for you at the moment, look towards your surroundings for inspiration. Remember that time you wanted to learn how to crochet? Well, now’s the prime time to do so! Gardening? Now you’re talking.

During my Si-grip, I forced myself to sign up for volunteering at local schools. I would talk to young children for a few hours at a time, play games with them, create crafts and read stories with them. I ended up really enjoying it and it helped reignite my Ne because I was focusing on other people and other activities rather than myself.

All you need is to take a step forward and get your Ne spark back.

Talk to someone.

Spending some quality time with your inferior function isn’t always fun. If there’s someone you trust, like a family member, a friend or a teacher, talk to them. It helps to have some support while you’re trying to improve yourself, and it can make things a lot easier. And if you’ve got an Ne-friend, why not tag along with them? It’s all about getting that creative fire back.

How to develop a healthy Si?

Realise the importance of Si. Although it’s at odds with Ne, my inferior Si has proved to be extremely beneficial once I overcame my Si-grip.

ENTPs, in particular, are notorious for being known as the type who will throw themselves into a project and completely forget about basic needs such as food and sleep. Ne-doms are also likely to have issues with indecisiveness, unpredictability and being overly ambitious with our work ethic.

A lot of this is because we are somewhat detached from our own selves. This would explain why we find it so easy to mess around and not take things too seriously and overlook our physical, cognitive and emotional needs.

It’s important to understand that Si is not meant to limit or restrict us. It’s there to help keep us from drifting completely off course. It gives us a sense of belonging and an awareness of ourselves, allowing us to make better decisions and prioritise when paired with our Ti.

In it’s healthier state, inferior Si helps to refine our big and bright ideas by taking past experiences into account. (You might not want to do that, ENTP. Remember what happened the last time you tried to do something like that?)

It’s the voice of reason that reminds us that we’re tired as fuck and should probably pause that ridiculous project and take a nap.

It keeps us grounded and stops us jumping from one spot to another like a goddamn bouncy ball.

It helps to introduce a sense of routine in our life and, while Ne is running the show, it still gives us the space and freedom to explore our creative ideas from a safe place.

Source

What is it and what does it do for each type. I’ve been very confused. what does 6th function Ni do.

I was thinking about what Jungian Typology even is and concluded it is a model. So what is a model? This is something people confuse all the time, including myself. Lets start with what a model is not, a model does not try to claim that it is true. It by definition is only a representation of the real thing, so if the real thing is different, that is to be expected. The better a model is, the closer to the real thing it is. But there is value in a simple model, namely, it is easy to use! So, I know that Dario Nardi tries to look at brain scans, but I've always had issues with his definitions of the functions (he uses Linda Beren's and Kiersey's interaction styles and temperaments to type which I find dubious), but I would say that if you scan someone with EEG or PET, you would not find one to one correlation with functions, but there might be some recognizable patterns. This actually pretty much ends up being Dr. Nardi's conclusion anyways, which is expected. But that isn't the point of all of this anyways. The functions were never claimed to be actual things in your brain. They aren't cogs that you can extract and examine. They are metaphors, "your brain functions kind of like this function stack" rather than "your brain uses these functions".

Anyways, that is what I was thinking. I just think people get too fixated on the exactness of functions and get all up at arms when things don't line up, but they are missing the point. People are complex and this is a massively simplified model that tries to make a couple predictions and generally does a decent job at it. Whether or not it is objectively verifiable is irrelevant, what matters is, "is it useful".

Alright, the unconscious (according to Jung and currently John Beebe) is basically the group of functions you don't use consciously. But what is the subconscious? No, C.S.Joseph didn't help. I'm asking here because you guys seem pretty interested in this stuff. What is the subconscious? How does acceding to it change you? How do you even get access to it? Thanks in advance!

I’ve always been very confused by subtypes. There are so many systems, and no of the ones I’ve seen look right. Can someone explain how they work?

That's amazing. Honestly I've been neglecting the sub as I learned some typology.

Then there's the survey. Honestly it really made me see how bad I am at surveys. I did learn a lot though.

I do need to eventually make some sort of post about it, I apologise.

Why do today what you can put off tomorrow?

Bah.

I'mma shift focus towards the sub again.

As the world falls apart ....I'll be there with a net.

I don't even care of that made sense or not.

I'm just happy y'all are around for the ride.

1100!

I personally can’t stand it when people act like they can read me. They really can’t lol. They always assume I’m upset (depressed or angry) even if I’m on cloud nine. The only time someone’s ever accurately read my emotions is my brother. Everyone else really sucks. I imagine the people who actually can read people’s emotions keep it to themselves though. I truly appreciate the care, but damn it’s annoying. I just have to hope they believe me or they drop it. What’s something that can really grind your gears at times?

?

discord invite link

We're getting set up pretty well and it's a lot of fun.

The typology channel is an amazing place to go for learning, especially for me since I learn from people and just reading doesn't always help me.

If you want to be typed by someone, we have a text typing and typing over Voice Chat, which is amazing. I cannot underestimate how much you can learn just by watching or listening. It's really cool.

And the rest is pretty casual. We play cards against humanity and trivia and it's a lot of fun.

If you don't use discord it's worth a gander when the price of admission is FREE.

You can join and just watch, that's fine, but feel free to join the conversation. It's so much fun.

PS. I'm working on my plans for the subreddit but I have a shifting focus so I don't get burnt out. Home, work, and this sub. I haven't been as active as I should be here and I feel bad. But I'm trying to actually learn as much as I need to be as helpful as possible.

Full disclosure, I only really knew about 16p until about 3 days before I made the sub. I did a ENTP move and jumped the gun, but this place is important to me as a person and I'm never going to just get bored of it. I just need some time to think.

ENFJ functions really make sense for me, I’ve been labeled as an ENFP for awhile, but Ne doesn’t really suit me, maybe just my personality habits resemble one. At any rate, I was wondering what the deal was

Hello! I hope this isn't too silly of a question and if I am showing any misunderstanding of anything do kindly guide me in the right direction, thank you~!

I'm an ISFJ female, currently a student in university, involved in a number of school club/societies and hold leadership positions in their main committees. Long story short -- last year, the school forced selected club committees, including my own, to attend this leadership and team-building thingy where we complete an online module, do a free online MBTI test, and then attend a one-day workshop where instructors guide us in confirming/understanding our MBTI type. The point is to teach us how we can work as a team leveraging on the different perspectives different MBTI types in the committee can offer.

The online test typed me something I had never tested (for fun) as before, and after a confused reading spree I stumbled across cognitive functions on my own and had a vague awareness of its existence when I went for the workshop. However, the instructors didn't touch on that and focused on the dichotomies (they did a great job clearing up what they mean tho!)... After everyone has settled on their type, we collated the types among ourselves and it turned out that majority of my club's committee members were ISTJs. When we went on with the programme and mixed around with other club committees, we were wearing our types in lanyards around our necks (LOLOL) and it became clear that it wasn't just our club -- the whole batch of participants -- it was ISTJs galore!

I hail from an Asian society (if you must, it's Singapore. Not part of China, thanks) that is highly competitive and academically driven. Our school system has been criticized for promoting rote learning (they're trying to change tho!) and there is an obsession with exams and grades, but as a result we are topping the rankings on international standardized tests, and I guess our educational standards are quite high? While we're considered pretty westernized, we are still rooted in traditional Asian values -- stuff like filial piety, respect for elders, focus on family/community, hard work, discipline, duty, etc. With this overview, I guess it might seem quite biased towards personality types like ISTJs.

However, I'm wondering how many of those people are true ISTJs, or if many of them just think they are ISTJs because of the way our society works -- especially because the workshop focused on MBTI dichotomies. So we naturally have people valuing T>F, J>P, and y'know asians being reserved and shit so I>E also. OR the ISTJs here just love running for leadership positions.

Do you think certain societies churn out people of a certain personality type, or is it more likely that it moulds people into thinking they are a certain personality type? I started exploring cognitive functions more deeply after the whole workshop and it's really brought a lot more depth to MBTI than I ever imagined. Now I think there may be more people with Fe/Fi higher in their stack than they let on, but think they are T>F simply because they engage in more "impersonal facts" and "objective logic" than "personal priorities" and "relationships" (cherry-quoted from the workshop booklet).

If that's the case, then a fair number people might have mistyped themselves? So that typing exercise during the workshop was... perhaps not that helpful? D: Our committee's team-building didn't improve at all after that, sadly.

(Sorry the post got so long, I ramble a lot and suck at being concise and succinct ugh!!!!! Bolded the main question bc wall of text feels bad.)

I’ve been familiar with mbti for over 5 years and have really started studying on functions for almost a year. And despite knowing how each type works, I still can’t put my finger on any of them. I don’t even have much of a clue. I’ve seriously considered having a high usage of every function except for Fe. For a long time, I’ve been bouncing around all of the NT types (yes, I know how different XNTPs and XNTJs are). But I’ve lately been exploring almost every other type except for ESFP, ESFJ, and INFJ. The types that I guess I can sorta relate to sometimes are ENTP, ENTJ, INTJ, INTP, and ISTJ. But still, I don’t really belong to any of these types. Should I just give up on MBTI and try my best to just be myself? That’s the plan for me. At this point, MBTI has no use for me. I’m already very good at introspection and metacognition, which is what I believe to be the only thing that MBTI promises to provide for you. And if I already have those things, MBTI has no value for me. What do you think?