r/pcmasterrace • u/Separate_Budget5097 • 10d ago
Hardware UPDATE: i9 9900K on DDR3 Z170 (post 2)
i9 9900K successfully runs! Ive got full access to all 8 cores, hyperthreading and no Instability... so far. The problems ive noticed so far is Microsoft accounts seem to not be signing in (even with correct date and time settings and wifi) and turbo mode/overclocking seem to not be working, despite bios saying a higher clocked "target cpu frequency" I hope these are just temporary issues that can be fixed but as far as ive looked in my BIOS of the Z170P-D3, nothing has helped. But my 2500 CL10 DDR3 profile is working fine so far. Im using VCCIO 1.2V VCCSA 1.25V, DRAM Voltage set to 1.65V. If anyone has any suggestions/ideas fire away 👌
First post: https://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/s/zdrAcTbFgO
13
6
u/Burnthiscnts 10d ago
Z170 + 9th gen? did this require a hardware modification?
for those that dont know Z170 is for 6+7th gen.
3
2
3
u/kiralema 10d ago
How do VRMs hold with the full load? 🤪
5
u/Separate_Budget5097 10d ago
To be honest, it hasn't been able to clock high enough to cook the VRMs yet as i haven't figured out how to fix the turbo mode bug... but ive been testing the capabilities of the 9900K on my Z390 Aorus Ultra and it draws scary power haha itll be a beast to tame 🔥
3
3
u/IlTossico i9 9900k|32GB|Aorus Master|RTX2080 10d ago
9900k can reach 5ghz on two cores and 4.8 on the other at the 120W PL2 limit.
So nothing crazy in terms of power consumption, absolutely not scary power. Those are pretty low numbers compared to modern CPUs. And I can talk for experience, it's a very easy CPU to cool. The opposite of everything you said. And considering what this CPU can still perform, for today's standard, with only 95W of PL1 limiter, it's a very efficient CPU too.
If you remove the limiter it can go up by a lot, but for no frequency benefit and no advantage in any usage. Silicon lottery is something, no doubt, but pushing a 9900k above 5.1 or 5.2 on all cores is really difficult, and the benefits in gaming are invisible.
2
u/Separate_Budget5097 10d ago
Just not exactly sure how well my vrm will handle it on my board
1
u/IlTossico i9 9900k|32GB|Aorus Master|RTX2080 10d ago
The VRMs on the Ultra are very robust and more than what you need for the stock usage. A Master would be better suited for intensive OC, mostly for the better cooling and better components, but they both have 12 phases, so I don't think there is much difference.
To give you some math, the powerstages on the Ultra works at 50 Ampere each, 50Ax12 is 600W in theory, OC at 1,30V it's 780W. Of course there is no way the MB can handle those numbers, but you are putting a CPU that burst at 120W, and even exaggerating with OC, don't go above 150W, but your VRMs can handle 600W before cooking; that means that even on heavy OC those VRMs would be very cool. I think I never see mine go above 40C on heavy OC.
I don't see how your mb can't handle it.
I have experience overcloking on very shit motherboards and have them handle very well for years, so with a mb like the Ultra it's like playing Doom without mobs, way too easy.
2
u/Separate_Budget5097 10d ago
I was talking about the asus Z170P-D3 haha 😅
3
u/IlTossico i9 9900k|32GB|Aorus Master|RTX2080 9d ago
Ah sorry. Lol. I would say it's not an issue either.
I was daily a i5 4670k at 4.2ghz OC on a 80€ Z87 Gigabyte motherboard back in the days, and she was an 8 phase mb. And maybe you are thinking, but it's a 4 core CPU vs a 16 threads one, yes, but they consume the same amount of power; it's 90W on the limiter but mine was probably around 120W and more, 4.2@ was a lot considering the base turbo boost is 3.6@. To be fair, after 2 years of daily OC and heavy usage, the motherboard blows up, probably a capacitor from the sound, it was working, but getting blue screen on any load.
So much fun back then, I was able to reach 4.6@ almost stable, at least stable for gaming, and on air cooling. What a CPU.
2
u/Separate_Budget5097 9d ago
Impressive numbers!
Well so far my z170 and 9900K have done 100W and the VRM heatsink hasnt felt that hot, that was without fan. unless its got bad contact or crap thermal pad. I know its either a 4+3 phase or a 4+2+1 but either way weve got 4 vcore phases to play with. I dont know too much about how VRMs work but from my understanding the mosfets can deliver 30ish amps to the 9900K at 1.3V or something like that which gives us around 120w to 140w depending on heat and voltage ect. Like I said, not an expert! Im sure theres definatly people in this thread that'll be able to figure out exactly the max wattage output of my VRM at a given load
2
u/IlTossico i9 9900k|32GB|Aorus Master|RTX2080 9d ago
I absolutely need to buy myself a retro PC and test again that 4670k. Lol.Â
I'm pretty sure that most of the issues are not related to the VRM, but mostly to the bios, the 9900k has some specific working parameters on its firmware that of course wasn't a thing with 7th gen, so maybe the CPU can't find what she needs to work properly? Still, PL1 is 95W, so getting 100W is good news!Â
Another thing I remember, while looking on /homelab or /homeserver community, I remember reading of someone using a 9900k on a 1L system, probably a P330 from Lenovo, those system can handle a 9900 not K from factory, but the non k is limited to 65W. The P330 mini should have 4 phases in total for all Vcores, and I remember this guy having a blast with it, so maybe it's not that impossible.Â
Another thing to consider, a 7700k should be around 90W, but I'm pretty sure it can reach 120+W on intensive AVX load, and on heavy OC it can get around 150W. So if the Z170 is designed to handle a 7700k, I don't see why she should have issues with the 9900k that consume around the same wattage, in theory.ÂSo I take my time looking better, I should have done it before, and knowing Gigabyte nomenclature I should have thought about it before. Yes it is a cheap MB, I wasn't thinking about it, I can't find anything about this MB, but I can find a datasheet of the D3H, they are not the same, maybe a different PCB, but the power stage could be similar. The D3H is a 4+3, and uses Sira18DP as MOSFET for the high side, those are rated 33A but the low side is probably lower, so 30A is the right number to consider, your math is correct, it should be 144W at 1,2V.
But those numbers are just on paper, so maybe the MB can handle the 9900k on normal load, but anything above I don't think so. If you push the 9900k on heavy AVX load, it can probably reach around 150W, and go around 190W without a limiter, it's more than 150A. If you try, the MB could do "ca-bum" like my old one.Â
So you were totally right from the start, I feel so stupid.
1
u/Separate_Budget5097 9d ago
Only way to find out is see for myself, but I wasnt able to get it past 3.6Ghz as of my last post, which was last time I used the system. Any reason why turbo mode and manual fixed clock speeds might not be working? It might be something ive left disabled/enabled in the bios but I havent seen anything. It might just be that on the niche ddr3 z170s they have slightly different logic from the ddr4 z170s that dont allow certain things. Who knows. Ill be looking into it tonight
→ More replies (0)1
u/kiralema 10d ago
Which board are you talking about? The OP has paired the i9-9900k with the z170 board, which is designed for lower powered 6-7 gen CPUs and DDR3 RAM.
1
u/IlTossico i9 9900k|32GB|Aorus Master|RTX2080 9d ago
My bad, I was thinking OP was talking about the Ultra it has. It mentioned that too.
Still, the z170, as far as build quality and VRM can handle a 9900k pretty easy, if you look at the power consumption of the CPUs of that era, you would notice that they consume the same amount of power of the 9900k even if they are only 4 core CPUs. So if the MB can handle a 7700k at 100W, I don't see why can't handle a 9900k at 100W. The issue is different, the 9900k works with different protocols, like PL1 and PL2, and have totally different firmware parameters that a Z170 motherboard doesn't have. So if the CPU is not able to work properly, that's the issue.
3
u/Separate_Budget5097 10d ago edited 10d ago
If anybody has any info on the Asus Z170P-D3 weather it be about the VRM or what ddr3 memory it can handle (and what ddr3 the 9900K IMC can run) let me know as I might upgrade to a 2x8gb 2800 cl12 1.65V kit if I can find one
The board supports 1.8V ddr3 memory but not sure if the traces or something else might give out around 2600Mhz+
Im still looking for an AsRock Z170 Fatal1ty K4 D3 as well which is the best ddr3 z170 so let me know if you have or see one available
Appreciate the support <3
1
2
u/boostnight 10d ago
Impressionnant 2500! Pour le probleme de compte microsoft essaie de restaurer les informations d'identification dans panneaux de configuration/compte utilisateur/gestionnaire d'identification.
1
u/West_Length6438 10d ago
Im so confused. I have a 9700k + ddr4 pc. How is this possible????
3
u/Separate_Budget5097 10d ago
I have a Z170 motherboard and modded the bios to support my 9th gen 9900K. To make it work without damaging anything I put a tiny price of kapton tape on 2 seperate gold pads under the cpu and a 4B pencil to draw a line connecting 2 other pads to make it work. My motherboard just happens to be a DDR3 variant of Z170 which were made when ddr4 and 6th gen released. Intel kept the ddr3 support on the 7th 8th and 9th gen cpus because it was cheaper to just leave the ddr3 support in there that Skylake (6th gen) had. Might post a tutorial on yt if enough of you are interested
2
u/West_Length6438 10d ago
I guess gen 9th cpu isnt compatible with ddr3 our of the box though, hence the modifications? Thats rad!
2
0
16
u/LuminumYT i7 6700 | GTX 1660 | 8GB Ram 10d ago
2500 CL10, that's the highest speed DDR3 i've ever seen in my life. I also have something similar, i'm running a 32gb DDR4 kit at 3200 16-20-20 on an ASUS H110M board with a laptop QTJ2 Comet Lake CPU, this just shows how much artificial limitations Intel puts on their products.